6 ms·

I was on a jury for larceny from a Target. The footage they showed from so many points around the store made me feel creeped out with every store I go into now.

justeleblanc 4y ago
Larceny goes to a jury where you live?
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  It's a criminal charge, so yes, according to the Sixth Amendment it could go to a jury trial in any jurisdiction.
  - justeleblanc 4y ago
    I guess you mean in any jurisdiction in the US. Where I live, jury trials are for the highest level of crimes (the translation would be felony I guess).
    - CydeWeys 4y ago
      I'm not sure this clarification is necessary as we're in a discussion about NYC, on a US-based website, and the Sixth Amendment to the US Constitution obviously applies within the US but not to other countries.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    Maybe I've been living in California for too long, but I'm kind of shocked/confused at how someone stealing from a Target would go all the way to a jury trial. Surely the amount stolen was less than the cost of the police's time, the legal system, judges, attorneys, clerks, jurors, and so on. It would be more cost effective to simply have the local government reimburse Target for the loss.
    - jrockway 4y ago
      That's not really how criminal justice works. If someone murders you, no money is lost. They aren't trying to figure out who killed you so they'll pay what you would have paid in taxes. They investigate and prosecute murders to discourage murder. The same is mostly true for every crime. If you steal something of value and the insurance company gets reimbursed, that's just a bonus.
    - explaininjs 4y ago
      In CA, it's not shoplifting but rather "grand theft" after $950. Based on [1], target tracks you throughout the "shoplifting" to accumulate total losses and only goes after you once you hit "grand theft", where presumably the cost/benefit works out in their favor. This lines up with what I've heard on TikTok and from in person conversations with kleptomaniacs. (It's not uncommon for folks to go on thieving sprees throughout a mall. They think they're getting off scott-free, but are being secretly followed by security. Once they hit $950 the big guns come out.) [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35031393 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35031393
    - crazygringo 4y ago
      Preventing crime isn't about cost-effectiveness in individual instances, it's about deterrence. Which is necessary for safety, but which is also "cost-effective" when you account for all the crime that has been deterred, if you tried to measure that in dollars somehow. But people also have rights, including the right to a trial with a jury of peers. Innocent people can be wrongly accused of stealing large amounts. It's worth the expense of a jury trial to force the prosecution to justify their case and give the innocent the change to defend themselves. And cost effectiveness plays no role here.
- tchock23 4y ago
  Value of the stolen goods exceeded a certain amount (I think it was $3k) so it went to a trial.
mozman 4y ago
Target has a very impressive security system. There is a uuid on your receipt that can be used to track your movement within the store beginning from when you walked in They also have a top forensic lab that some smaller law enforcement units rely on, and they do it for free! https://corporate.target.com/article/2012/02/an-unexpected-career-target-forensic-services-labo https://corporate.target.com/article/2012/02/an-unexpected-c...
- joezydeco 4y ago
  Target's procedure is that they don't bother with small shoplifters, but they track the value of the items stolen. Once you hit the felony limit, they go into action and provide all the evidence to law enforcement.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - gretch 4y ago
    I don’t think this is true. In high school my friend was caught and arrested for stealing a bottle of luxury cosmetic shampoo (dumb teenager brain). Not cheap but certainly not felony limit
    - satvikpendem 4y ago
      They track how much you've shoplifted over time and once it hits felony level amounts, then they charge you. From the below articles: > "[If] you take a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff, they're gonna be like 'Bye gorgeous. You have a great day.'" > However, the self-identified ex-employee said that there is a catch - if the shoplifting becomes a pattern, Target allegedly takes action, as they track stolen items. > Hannah claimed that the company waits "until you're thousands and thousands of dollars in debt" to "put you behind bars." > This would generally make the stealing a felony-level charge. https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/target-thefts-shoplifting-charges/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/target-thefts-shoplifti... https://www.the-sun.com/news/6797941/target-employee-theft-stealing-registers-self-checkout/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/6797941/target-employee-theft-s...

justeleblanc 4y ago

Larceny goes to a jury where you live?

CydeWeys 4y ago
It's a criminal charge, so yes, according to the Sixth Amendment it could go to a jury trial in any jurisdiction.
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  I guess you mean in any jurisdiction in the US. Where I live, jury trials are for the highest level of crimes (the translation would be felony I guess).
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    I'm not sure this clarification is necessary as we're in a discussion about NYC, on a US-based website, and the Sixth Amendment to the US Constitution obviously applies within the US but not to other countries.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  Maybe I've been living in California for too long, but I'm kind of shocked/confused at how someone stealing from a Target would go all the way to a jury trial. Surely the amount stolen was less than the cost of the police's time, the legal system, judges, attorneys, clerks, jurors, and so on. It would be more cost effective to simply have the local government reimburse Target for the loss.
  - jrockway 4y ago
    That's not really how criminal justice works. If someone murders you, no money is lost. They aren't trying to figure out who killed you so they'll pay what you would have paid in taxes. They investigate and prosecute murders to discourage murder. The same is mostly true for every crime. If you steal something of value and the insurance company gets reimbursed, that's just a bonus.
  - explaininjs 4y ago
    In CA, it's not shoplifting but rather "grand theft" after $950. Based on [1], target tracks you throughout the "shoplifting" to accumulate total losses and only goes after you once you hit "grand theft", where presumably the cost/benefit works out in their favor. This lines up with what I've heard on TikTok and from in person conversations with kleptomaniacs. (It's not uncommon for folks to go on thieving sprees throughout a mall. They think they're getting off scott-free, but are being secretly followed by security. Once they hit $950 the big guns come out.) [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35031393 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35031393
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    Preventing crime isn't about cost-effectiveness in individual instances, it's about deterrence. Which is necessary for safety, but which is also "cost-effective" when you account for all the crime that has been deterred, if you tried to measure that in dollars somehow. But people also have rights, including the right to a trial with a jury of peers. Innocent people can be wrongly accused of stealing large amounts. It's worth the expense of a jury trial to force the prosecution to justify their case and give the innocent the change to defend themselves. And cost effectiveness plays no role here.
tchock23 4y ago
Value of the stolen goods exceeded a certain amount (I think it was $3k) so it went to a trial.

mozman 4y ago

Target has a very impressive security system. There is a uuid on your receipt that can be used to track your movement within the store beginning from when you walked in They also have a top forensic lab that some smaller law enforcement units rely on, and they do it for free! https://corporate.target.com/article/2012/02/an-unexpected-career-target-forensic-services-labo https://corporate.target.com/article/2012/02/an-unexpected-c...

joezydeco 4y ago
Target's procedure is that they don't bother with small shoplifters, but they track the value of the items stolen. Once you hit the felony limit, they go into action and provide all the evidence to law enforcement.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gretch 4y ago
  I don’t think this is true. In high school my friend was caught and arrested for stealing a bottle of luxury cosmetic shampoo (dumb teenager brain). Not cheap but certainly not felony limit
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    They track how much you've shoplifted over time and once it hits felony level amounts, then they charge you. From the below articles: > "[If] you take a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff, they're gonna be like 'Bye gorgeous. You have a great day.'" > However, the self-identified ex-employee said that there is a catch - if the shoplifting becomes a pattern, Target allegedly takes action, as they track stolen items. > Hannah claimed that the company waits "until you're thousands and thousands of dollars in debt" to "put you behind bars." > This would generally make the stealing a felony-level charge. https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/target-thefts-shoplifting-charges/ https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/target-thefts-shoplifti... https://www.the-sun.com/news/6797941/target-employee-theft-stealing-registers-self-checkout/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/6797941/target-employee-theft-s...