4 ms·

There's virtually no such thing as ringers taking tests. The majority of rich kids, whose parents are serious about college, are tracked through prep schools b

There's virtually no such thing as ringers taking tests. The majority of rich kids, whose parents are serious about college, are tracked through prep schools beginning with kindergarten. Its more rare than not that such a kid underperforms enough to be excluded from elite University admission. Especially once one includes the many elite liberal arts colleges that are generally off of the radar of poors. I do agree about the value of standardized testing, but for the reason that it enables positive filtering of underprivileged kids who otherwise wouldn't be looked at. I don't believe that a downward pull on rich kids is all that significant. To politely disagree with the reasoning of an otherwise well intentioned post. I attended prep school as a poor. One of the most egregious things that I've ever witnessed, in terms of admissions, is a truly stupid poor being admitted to an Ivy because his Father networked enough as the a prep school's soccer coach (soccer being why his son was at the prep school, but not why he was admitted to the Ivy). I knew this kid from when we attended Catholic school together before the prep school.

kenjackson 4y ago
There are more ringers taking tests than we probably know. I used to teach SAT prep and I was propositioned multiple times about this (usual subtle). Of course I never did it, but I’m sure they could find someone.
bradleyjg 4y ago
Don’t forget the off the chart rates of testing accommodations for rich kids vs everyone else.
- mrangle 4y ago
  Respectfully, the issue of unprovided testing accommodations is only relevant for kids with a disability. This would not apply to everyone else. Only to kids with an unidentified disability. Which will be more in the underprivileged group, but it is still a minuscule group. Especially taken in the context of elite University admissions, for which we are actually speaking of the even rarer child that is "twice exceptional'. That is, gifted with a disability.
  - bradleyjg 4y ago
    This assumes that the rich kid rate is accurate and what’s missing is parallel accommodations for poorer kids. But what about if instead the elevated rate is a result of fraud? In other areas of life (e.g. service animals and medical pot) it’s pretty clear that there are medical professionals out there are selling their letterhead to the highest bidder. Why should we believe that’s not happening here?
    - mrangle 4y ago
      Why should you believe that it is "happening here"? Let alone at a significant rate. Why is this wild conjecture worth a discussion? Give me a break. As a clinician that evaluates disabilities, it is very difficult to fake one. They tend to be diagnosed at an early age, and not at "test time" in high school. In fact, as a person ages they are much less likely to receive a diagnosis. There has to be early-age evidence even if the diagnoses is later in life. The disability rate in elite / prep schools exists but is low. These kids tend to be more on the spectrum than anything else. Underperforming kids who don't have a disability, and might be prone to cheat by one means or another, and who aren't sports recruits tend to transfer to easier schools. If a kid wants to go through the process of being fraudulently diagnosed by an independent psychologist with ADHD, for the purpose of accommodations, then the same process is discoverable by literally anyone with an internet connection. That is, by everyone. And from what I know, this has much less to do with clinician corruption than it does with the individual faking symptoms. There's few to zero people risking their licenses to hand out fake diagnoses for scheduled medications that are under heavy scrutiny at all times by the States and the Feds. The liability alone is off of the charts. Schools are only likely to accept the diagnoses if a thorough clinical evaluation is undertaken. The result of which is not able to be faked.
      - bradleyjg 4y ago
        What makes a psychologist an “independent psychologist“? Are they selected and paid for by someone other than the parents? We see in medical malpractice cases that there’s always two expert witnesses and their respective testimonies always line up with the interests of the side that’s paying them. Why aren’t those clinicians worried about losing their licenses? Edit: I upvoted your post, it was gray, I appreciate engagement especially from those that disagree with me.
Supermancho 4y ago
> There's virtually no such thing as ringers taking tests. It happens more than you might think, but only because you don't have the money or desire to use such a service. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article260317150.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/artic... There have been many scandals, relatively recently. This was just one of many many links that are very easy to find.

kenjackson 4y ago

There are more ringers taking tests than we probably know. I used to teach SAT prep and I was propositioned multiple times about this (usual subtle). Of course I never did it, but I’m sure they could find someone.

bradleyjg 4y ago

Don’t forget the off the chart rates of testing accommodations for rich kids vs everyone else.

mrangle 4y ago
Respectfully, the issue of unprovided testing accommodations is only relevant for kids with a disability. This would not apply to everyone else. Only to kids with an unidentified disability. Which will be more in the underprivileged group, but it is still a minuscule group. Especially taken in the context of elite University admissions, for which we are actually speaking of the even rarer child that is "twice exceptional'. That is, gifted with a disability.
- bradleyjg 4y ago
  This assumes that the rich kid rate is accurate and what’s missing is parallel accommodations for poorer kids. But what about if instead the elevated rate is a result of fraud? In other areas of life (e.g. service animals and medical pot) it’s pretty clear that there are medical professionals out there are selling their letterhead to the highest bidder. Why should we believe that’s not happening here?
  - mrangle 4y ago
    Why should you believe that it is "happening here"? Let alone at a significant rate. Why is this wild conjecture worth a discussion? Give me a break. As a clinician that evaluates disabilities, it is very difficult to fake one. They tend to be diagnosed at an early age, and not at "test time" in high school. In fact, as a person ages they are much less likely to receive a diagnosis. There has to be early-age evidence even if the diagnoses is later in life. The disability rate in elite / prep schools exists but is low. These kids tend to be more on the spectrum than anything else. Underperforming kids who don't have a disability, and might be prone to cheat by one means or another, and who aren't sports recruits tend to transfer to easier schools. If a kid wants to go through the process of being fraudulently diagnosed by an independent psychologist with ADHD, for the purpose of accommodations, then the same process is discoverable by literally anyone with an internet connection. That is, by everyone. And from what I know, this has much less to do with clinician corruption than it does with the individual faking symptoms. There's few to zero people risking their licenses to hand out fake diagnoses for scheduled medications that are under heavy scrutiny at all times by the States and the Feds. The liability alone is off of the charts. Schools are only likely to accept the diagnoses if a thorough clinical evaluation is undertaken. The result of which is not able to be faked.
    - bradleyjg 4y ago
      What makes a psychologist an “independent psychologist“? Are they selected and paid for by someone other than the parents? We see in medical malpractice cases that there’s always two expert witnesses and their respective testimonies always line up with the interests of the side that’s paying them. Why aren’t those clinicians worried about losing their licenses? Edit: I upvoted your post, it was gray, I appreciate engagement especially from those that disagree with me.

Supermancho 4y ago

> There's virtually no such thing as ringers taking tests. It happens more than you might think, but only because you don't have the money or desire to use such a service. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article260317150.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/artic... There have been many scandals, relatively recently. This was just one of many many links that are very easy to find.