20 ms·

Nannou – An open-source creative-coding framework for Rust

258 points by notmysql_ 4y ago

acodingcow 4y ago
For those who are starting to learn creative coding from p5js/Processing like me, this framework can appear quite challenging. P5js and Processing are designed to smooth the learning curve of programming for designers and artists without a CS background. Nannou looks more like it's designed for those who already have experience in creative coding but are looking to achieve higher performance with their sketches. It's worth taking a look at OPENRNDR, which is a framework based on Kotlin. Personally, I think it achieves a good balance between performance and accessibility. OPENRNDR: https://openrndr.org/ https://openrndr.org/
Fraterkes 4y ago
This seems cool! Would be neat to have some kind of feature/performance comparison with processing, which I'd guess is the introduction to creative coding for a lot of people.
jll29 4y ago
I wonder if creative people can be bothered to learn Rust, or perhaps an easier path to adoption could be a simple DSL.
- nate-sys 4y ago
  I did. although simpler languages like Python and JS were easier to get your ideas on the screen quickly, they are too resource intensive. Large and complicated pieces become too slow to work on as time goes on, and you have to either get better hardware or use a faster language such as Rust.
- beezlewax 4y ago
  They can! I watched an interview with the makers of this framework and they're artists themselves that learned programming to make art. Rust can run fast and thus is attractive for this kind of thing.
  - OliverM 4y ago
    The quick run speed is great for shortening the feedback loop. I've had great experiences with Lisp-style environments for that reason, and the language is much higher level than Rust while still offering good performance. I've mainly used Quil, the Clojure wrapper around processing: https://github.com/quil/quil https://github.com/quil/quil
- laserbeam 4y ago
  Yeah, I don't want to dismiss this project out of principle, because it's cool! But I'd still recommend software like Touch Designer, or Notch (or some free alternative) for creative people. Fleshed out IDEs with both code and visual editors (and preferably with good support for a ton of peripherals).
  - virtualritz 4y ago
    Try creating some of the more complex examples from "nature of code" in a node-based environment. The networks you get are huge. And understanding them, after a month e.g., becomes tedious at best. The creation may seem more artist friendly but understanding/modifying are very much less so when a certain complexity threshold is reached. Code is simply easier to read when you reach that aforementioned threshold. Writing code is also a different experience than using a node-based editor but that's more philosophical than pertaining to what is better when. My experience is mostly with Houdini in VFX. Whenever I have to touch a complex node graph, my own after a while, or someone else's -- the more nodes just containing plain VEX or Python code are in there, the easier it is usually to understand (vs someone making a sub network with another 30 nodes for what could be expressed with 10 lines of VEX).
    - RobotToaster 4y ago
      As a programmer and visual thinker, I always wish there was some kind of hybrid approach. There's no reason standard function calls can't be visualised as nodes, while keeping each function as pure code. Possibly it would work best in a functional language like haskell or elixir.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Visual Languages also allow to write modular code, by packing complex stuff into modules and libraries, maybe people try to stop doing everything on a single diagram.
- pzo 4y ago
  OpenFrameworks[0] is quite popular for creative coding even though it's written in C++ - framework is actually pleasant to use. If you want to do some creative coding on both iOS and Android you don't have many options. If you want to use sensors (cameras, microphones, gyroscope, accelerometer, etc) and e.g. process video stream at 120fps you have even less choices. Sadly OpenFrameworks development seems kind of stalled. Nannou + Rust could be a good or even better alternative: 1) painless cross-compilation to different platforms 2) plugins installation via cargo 3) more up-to-date plugins as tiny wrappers around CPAL [1] (audio I/O), nokhwa [2] (video i/o), opencv-rust[3] (video I/O and processing), rust-sdl2 [4](IMU sensors + game controllers), egui [5] (immediate mode gui + plotting) 4) better errors and more modern language [0] https://openframeworks.cc/ https://openframeworks.cc/ [1] https://github.com/RustAudio/cpal/ https://github.com/RustAudio/cpal/ [2] https://github.com/l1npengtul/nokhwa https://github.com/l1npengtul/nokhwa [3] https://github.com/twistedfall/opencv-rust https://github.com/twistedfall/opencv-rust [4] https://github.com/Rust-SDL2/rust-sdl2 https://github.com/Rust-SDL2/rust-sdl2 [5] https://github.com/emilk/egui https://github.com/emilk/egui
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Nanou still has quite a bit to catch up with openFrameworks API surface though. Also those "plugins" are kind of limited to compile time, not really what plugin infrastructure is about. Nothing that can be dynamically loaded into an existing installation. At very least I would expect something like DAWs or COM make available.
- weego 4y ago
  I'm surprised that this feels more verbose than libcinder, which already pushes beyond a lot of creative coder skill sets. I wonder if it does need another pass getting a DSL together or some abstraction toolkit to get it marrying up closer to the processing experience.
- amelius 4y ago
  The borrow checker is like a straightjacket. Creative types won't like it. Also, the bureaucracy. Better use a language with surprises, like C++.
  - kroltan 4y ago
    Probably not, but it can be bypassed at the framework level. Having reasonable compilation errors is tempting.
  - timeon 4y ago
    I have creative background, always feared and never learned C++. Maybe if one has years of OOP experience, feeling can be different, but for me, borrow checker felt straightforward. There could be some complicate cases of trait bounds using some 3rd party libraries. However one will hardly encounter that while playing with Nannou. Having rust-analyzer is also huge plus.
  - timschmidt 4y ago
    Au contraire, this video discusses Jack White's opinion that creativity is only properly unleashed under restriction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMHCJ8GCfaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMHCJ8GCfaU
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  That would be, for example, "Processing" https://processing.org/ https://processing.org/
d3m0t3p 4y ago
I would suggest checking their github repo[1] and seeing the examples from the book “nature of code” they are astonishing with a shitload of them ! Same with “generative design” [1] https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/tree/master/nature_of_code https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/tree/master/nature_of_c...
_def 4y ago
Ooh that could be great way to learn rust for me. Just got back into processing, with the goal of listening to midi to change visuals.
chungus 4y ago
This is a really cool project, named after a beautiful Aphex Twin song[1] (mentioned in their about: https://www.guide.nannou.cc/why_nannou.html https://www.guide.nannou.cc/why_nannou.html) [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=A-Pkx37kYf4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=A-Pkx37kYf4
xmcqdpt2 4y ago
I was expecting it to be like P5 but worse (why would you use Rust for that kind of coding?? do I actually care about memory safety in my sketches?) Shockingly the code looks totally reasonable! Im very impressed. I guess there is a lot of copy happening under the hood (cf the source for Draw) but the result is a very straightforward syntax. I might give it a try instead of going back to P5.
- mattrighetti 4y ago
  Well, I don’t use Rust for memory safety alone. That would be pretty reductive. I like the language, the syntax and all the cool math crates that I’m used to from other projects.
- nkrisc 4y ago
  I’m just a hobbyist developer, and I really don’t need Rust’s safety or even speed for anything I do. I don’t even need a compiled executable. Instead I keep coming back to it because of the language itself. Its particular flavor of the type system, traits, generics, error handling, and syntax I just love. It just seems so well thought out and any time I’m using any other language I find myself missing many of Rust’s features. As someone who’s generally pretty scatter-brained I really love the strictness of Rust.
  - tasn 4y ago
    I couldn't agree more. We switch our codebase from Python to Rust and it made things easier, not harder!
  - kilgnad 4y ago
    I find the move semantics and borrow checker actually reduces expressiveness and modularity. You didn't mention this in your list of good features. I think these are the main hurdles preventing full on popularity. It's arguably not a "hurdle" per say but it is preventing popularity imo.
    - nkrisc 4y ago
pietroppeter 4y ago
Surprised to see this kind of project in Rust but it looks interesting. Cannot resist plugging a Nim wrapper for p5js (although it’s a bit early stage), in case other are interested in doing p5/processing stuff in a niche but fun (and easy to pick up) language: https://github.com/pietroppeter/p5nim https://github.com/pietroppeter/p5nim
- dmit 4y ago
  I mean, https://www.libcinder.org https://www.libcinder.org and https://openframeworks.cc https://openframeworks.cc have been mainstays of the creative coding industry for a long time now. A Rust take on the problem shouldn't be too surprising.
sebosp 4y ago
Nannou talks about control of lasers, what would be a way to learn and get a cheap version of a laser beam I could use at home? Or maybe can I use that to control some light projections? I'm not interested in a full projector aimed at a while wall but was more wondering if I could somehow project some satellite movement on my living room walls and ceiling. I remember in Amsterdam there are some "immersive" light shows in Micropia where you see bacteria floating around and in the floor. Also shameless plug, I bridged Alacritty with Nannou so that one can use nannou primitives as alacritty "background" with animations https://github.com/sebosp/chartacritty https://github.com/sebosp/chartacritty
- stemlord 4y ago
  In my limited experience a lot of programmable lighting rigs are communicated with via DMX messages over the ArtNet protocol. Essentially you send UDP messages over a network. I wouldn't know a specific affordable laser rig to recommend but you can look for DMX lasers as a starting point.
iandanforth 4y ago
Rust is one of the more frustrating languages to dabble in. Usability is explicitly not a top priority. I can't imagine suggesting a rust based project to someone who wasn't already a fairly proficient coder.
- dmit 4y ago
  We might have different definitions of "usability." Tooling, package management, compiler messages, language documentation. Those are some of the things I think of when I hear "usability" - and those are all top notch. Were you thinking of the learning curve, or did you have issues with some of the above?
- hk__2 4y ago
  It’s interesting how there are completely-opposite views of Rust in the comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35029796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35029796
- kilgnad 4y ago
  Compared with C++ or C? No way. Rust is light years ahead of the curve in terms of usability. Perhaps you're comparing with languages outside of the domain like node or python? In that case it's actually not that far off in terms of usability.
- scotty79 4y ago
  It has very good usability if you notice how it's different from nearly any other commonly used languages. Values semantics and only fixed size stack variables.
throw10920 4y ago
The most important feature of a tool meant to support creativity is interactivity. Last time I checked, Rust didn't have a REPL, didn't support live-patching, and didn't have fast compile times - all features critical for interactivity. Has something changed since then?
- kjljsljsfdlkj 4y ago
  > The most important feature of a tool meant to support creativity is interactivity. This seems like a requirement you personally came up with that does not mesh with reality. Throughout history the greatest creative achievement have been made using absurdly difficult to use non-interactive mediums. Also Rust compile times are not as slow as you imagine them to be.
  - throw10920 4y ago
    > This seems like a requirement you personally came up with that does not mesh with reality. No, it's actually pretty obvious, if you actually take a moment to think about it. Creativity is about making things in reality, which necessitates the construction of new things, which means that you either need to keep design details entirely in your head while you work (which is infeasible for many things and challenging for most things) or you need to work with a medium (paint, clay, code) as you create, which means that the medium (and tool) need to be interactive. > Throughout history the greatest creative achievement have been made using absurdly difficult to use non-interactive mediums. This is completely absurd. Most, if not all, of the classical arts have used highly interactive media. Painting? Interactive medium. Sculping? Interactive. Mechanical devices, like the steam engine and the plane? Interactive. In almost every single creative field, you get the opportunity to work with things incrementally. Unfortunately, for historical reasons (namely their C lineage), most languages are non-interactive batch-processed monstrosities which inhibit creativity, and Rust is no exception. > Also Rust compile times are not as slow as you imagine them to be. I've used Rust, and the compile times are exactly what I remember them to be - tens of minutes for large programs, and tens of seconds for incremental compiles, which is tens of seconds too long.
- habitue 4y ago
dang 4y ago
Related: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25343356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25343356 - Dec 2020 (25 comments) Nannou: Creative Coding Toolkit for Rust - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20147764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20147764 - June 2019 (30 comments)
chaosprint 4y ago
For those who are interested in creative coding and Rust, especially the sound/audio/music related work, you can have a look on Glicol: https://glicol.org/ https://glicol.org/ https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol A music live coding language and a DSP library written in Rust.
- bmitc 4y ago
  How does Glicol compare to Pure Data or Csound?
joenot443 4y ago
The example code for drawing a circle felt warmly reminiscent of SwiftUI. draw.ellipse() .color(STEELBLUE) .w(300.0) .h(200.0) .x_y(200.0, -100.0); This seems promising! The creative coding folks I know mostly use WebGL which is obviously a way, way less user friendly syntax, though the tooling itself is much simpler and available. I’ll also note that the majority of the “best” creative coders I’ve met (biggest online following, largest shows) were not SWEs and generally didn’t code much outside of their preferred creative environment. All that to say that the other commenters are right, and that what is trivial to us (build and run a rust project) is a multi day affair for the technical non-programmer. I wonder if the author would consider shipping a desktop app with a preview window, simple text editor, and play button. All the pieces are obviously there, it’s just be a bit of a pain in the ass supporting three platforms and certainly less fun that working on the library itself :)
habitue 4y ago
I interviewed an artist who uses nannou to make art daily, back in 2021: https://blog.abor.dev/p/making-generative-art-with-rust https://blog.abor.dev/p/making-generative-art-with-rust
brunoqc 4y ago
I checked the website and the docs but I still have no idea what this is about.
- pas 4y ago
  "creative coding" usually refers to a framework where a developer/artist can code up nice things quickly for example https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/blob/master/examples/draw/draw_polyline.rs https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/blob/master/examples/dr... gives this funky rainbow sine wave (which seems to change as the user moves the mouse): https://camo.githubusercontent.com/edb74faf7b0d79c9e1918335e8c822d324613a126fdd06ed55ce92aa330e4fd3/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f6c6d345249344e2e676966 https://camo.githubusercontent.com/edb74faf7b0d79c9e1918335e... this seems to focus on iterative visuals (basically it's a rendering loop), there are a few music oriented frameworks too
aimor 4y ago
I was searching for a Rust tool like this not too long ago, very excited to see this and try it out!

258 points by notmysql_ 4y ago

For those who are starting to learn creative coding from p5js/Processing like me, this framework can appear quite challenging. P5js and Processing are designed to smooth the learning curve of programming for designers and artists without a CS background. Nannou looks more like it's designed for those who already have experience in creative coding but are looking to achieve higher performance with their sketches. It's worth taking a look at OPENRNDR, which is a framework based on Kotlin. Personally, I think it achieves a good balance between performance and accessibility. OPENRNDR: https://openrndr.org/ https://openrndr.org/

Fraterkes 4y ago

This seems cool! Would be neat to have some kind of feature/performance comparison with processing, which I'd guess is the introduction to creative coding for a lot of people.

jll29 4y ago

I wonder if creative people can be bothered to learn Rust, or perhaps an easier path to adoption could be a simple DSL.

nate-sys 4y ago
I did. although simpler languages like Python and JS were easier to get your ideas on the screen quickly, they are too resource intensive. Large and complicated pieces become too slow to work on as time goes on, and you have to either get better hardware or use a faster language such as Rust.
beezlewax 4y ago
They can! I watched an interview with the makers of this framework and they're artists themselves that learned programming to make art. Rust can run fast and thus is attractive for this kind of thing.
- OliverM 4y ago
  The quick run speed is great for shortening the feedback loop. I've had great experiences with Lisp-style environments for that reason, and the language is much higher level than Rust while still offering good performance. I've mainly used Quil, the Clojure wrapper around processing: https://github.com/quil/quil https://github.com/quil/quil
laserbeam 4y ago
Yeah, I don't want to dismiss this project out of principle, because it's cool! But I'd still recommend software like Touch Designer, or Notch (or some free alternative) for creative people. Fleshed out IDEs with both code and visual editors (and preferably with good support for a ton of peripherals).
- virtualritz 4y ago
  Try creating some of the more complex examples from "nature of code" in a node-based environment. The networks you get are huge. And understanding them, after a month e.g., becomes tedious at best. The creation may seem more artist friendly but understanding/modifying are very much less so when a certain complexity threshold is reached. Code is simply easier to read when you reach that aforementioned threshold. Writing code is also a different experience than using a node-based editor but that's more philosophical than pertaining to what is better when. My experience is mostly with Houdini in VFX. Whenever I have to touch a complex node graph, my own after a while, or someone else's -- the more nodes just containing plain VEX or Python code are in there, the easier it is usually to understand (vs someone making a sub network with another 30 nodes for what could be expressed with 10 lines of VEX).
  - RobotToaster 4y ago
    As a programmer and visual thinker, I always wish there was some kind of hybrid approach. There's no reason standard function calls can't be visualised as nodes, while keeping each function as pure code. Possibly it would work best in a functional language like haskell or elixir.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Visual Languages also allow to write modular code, by packing complex stuff into modules and libraries, maybe people try to stop doing everything on a single diagram.
pzo 4y ago
OpenFrameworks[0] is quite popular for creative coding even though it's written in C++ - framework is actually pleasant to use. If you want to do some creative coding on both iOS and Android you don't have many options. If you want to use sensors (cameras, microphones, gyroscope, accelerometer, etc) and e.g. process video stream at 120fps you have even less choices. Sadly OpenFrameworks development seems kind of stalled. Nannou + Rust could be a good or even better alternative: 1) painless cross-compilation to different platforms 2) plugins installation via cargo 3) more up-to-date plugins as tiny wrappers around CPAL [1] (audio I/O), nokhwa [2] (video i/o), opencv-rust[3] (video I/O and processing), rust-sdl2 [4](IMU sensors + game controllers), egui [5] (immediate mode gui + plotting) 4) better errors and more modern language [0] https://openframeworks.cc/ https://openframeworks.cc/ [1] https://github.com/RustAudio/cpal/ https://github.com/RustAudio/cpal/ [2] https://github.com/l1npengtul/nokhwa https://github.com/l1npengtul/nokhwa [3] https://github.com/twistedfall/opencv-rust https://github.com/twistedfall/opencv-rust [4] https://github.com/Rust-SDL2/rust-sdl2 https://github.com/Rust-SDL2/rust-sdl2 [5] https://github.com/emilk/egui https://github.com/emilk/egui
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Nanou still has quite a bit to catch up with openFrameworks API surface though. Also those "plugins" are kind of limited to compile time, not really what plugin infrastructure is about. Nothing that can be dynamically loaded into an existing installation. At very least I would expect something like DAWs or COM make available.
weego 4y ago
I'm surprised that this feels more verbose than libcinder, which already pushes beyond a lot of creative coder skill sets. I wonder if it does need another pass getting a DSL together or some abstraction toolkit to get it marrying up closer to the processing experience.
amelius 4y ago
The borrow checker is like a straightjacket. Creative types won't like it. Also, the bureaucracy. Better use a language with surprises, like C++.
- kroltan 4y ago
  Probably not, but it can be bypassed at the framework level. Having reasonable compilation errors is tempting.
- timeon 4y ago
  I have creative background, always feared and never learned C++. Maybe if one has years of OOP experience, feeling can be different, but for me, borrow checker felt straightforward. There could be some complicate cases of trait bounds using some 3rd party libraries. However one will hardly encounter that while playing with Nannou. Having rust-analyzer is also huge plus.
- timschmidt 4y ago
  Au contraire, this video discusses Jack White's opinion that creativity is only properly unleashed under restriction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMHCJ8GCfaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMHCJ8GCfaU
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
That would be, for example, "Processing" https://processing.org/ https://processing.org/

d3m0t3p 4y ago

I would suggest checking their github repo[1] and seeing the examples from the book “nature of code” they are astonishing with a shitload of them ! Same with “generative design” [1] https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/tree/master/nature_of_code https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/tree/master/nature_of_c...

_def 4y ago

Ooh that could be great way to learn rust for me. Just got back into processing, with the goal of listening to midi to change visuals.

chungus 4y ago

This is a really cool project, named after a beautiful Aphex Twin song[1] (mentioned in their about: https://www.guide.nannou.cc/why_nannou.html https://www.guide.nannou.cc/why_nannou.html) [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=A-Pkx37kYf4 https://youtube.com/watch?v=A-Pkx37kYf4

xmcqdpt2 4y ago

I was expecting it to be like P5 but worse (why would you use Rust for that kind of coding?? do I actually care about memory safety in my sketches?) Shockingly the code looks totally reasonable! Im very impressed. I guess there is a lot of copy happening under the hood (cf the source for Draw) but the result is a very straightforward syntax. I might give it a try instead of going back to P5.

mattrighetti 4y ago
Well, I don’t use Rust for memory safety alone. That would be pretty reductive. I like the language, the syntax and all the cool math crates that I’m used to from other projects.
nkrisc 4y ago
I’m just a hobbyist developer, and I really don’t need Rust’s safety or even speed for anything I do. I don’t even need a compiled executable. Instead I keep coming back to it because of the language itself. Its particular flavor of the type system, traits, generics, error handling, and syntax I just love. It just seems so well thought out and any time I’m using any other language I find myself missing many of Rust’s features. As someone who’s generally pretty scatter-brained I really love the strictness of Rust.
- tasn 4y ago
  I couldn't agree more. We switch our codebase from Python to Rust and it made things easier, not harder!
- kilgnad 4y ago
  I find the move semantics and borrow checker actually reduces expressiveness and modularity. You didn't mention this in your list of good features. I think these are the main hurdles preventing full on popularity. It's arguably not a "hurdle" per say but it is preventing popularity imo.
  - nkrisc 4y ago

pietroppeter 4y ago

Surprised to see this kind of project in Rust but it looks interesting. Cannot resist plugging a Nim wrapper for p5js (although it’s a bit early stage), in case other are interested in doing p5/processing stuff in a niche but fun (and easy to pick up) language: https://github.com/pietroppeter/p5nim https://github.com/pietroppeter/p5nim

dmit 4y ago
I mean, https://www.libcinder.org https://www.libcinder.org and https://openframeworks.cc https://openframeworks.cc have been mainstays of the creative coding industry for a long time now. A Rust take on the problem shouldn't be too surprising.

sebosp 4y ago

Nannou talks about control of lasers, what would be a way to learn and get a cheap version of a laser beam I could use at home? Or maybe can I use that to control some light projections? I'm not interested in a full projector aimed at a while wall but was more wondering if I could somehow project some satellite movement on my living room walls and ceiling. I remember in Amsterdam there are some "immersive" light shows in Micropia where you see bacteria floating around and in the floor. Also shameless plug, I bridged Alacritty with Nannou so that one can use nannou primitives as alacritty "background" with animations https://github.com/sebosp/chartacritty https://github.com/sebosp/chartacritty

stemlord 4y ago
In my limited experience a lot of programmable lighting rigs are communicated with via DMX messages over the ArtNet protocol. Essentially you send UDP messages over a network. I wouldn't know a specific affordable laser rig to recommend but you can look for DMX lasers as a starting point.

iandanforth 4y ago

Rust is one of the more frustrating languages to dabble in. Usability is explicitly not a top priority. I can't imagine suggesting a rust based project to someone who wasn't already a fairly proficient coder.

dmit 4y ago
We might have different definitions of "usability." Tooling, package management, compiler messages, language documentation. Those are some of the things I think of when I hear "usability" - and those are all top notch. Were you thinking of the learning curve, or did you have issues with some of the above?
hk__2 4y ago
It’s interesting how there are completely-opposite views of Rust in the comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35029796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35029796
kilgnad 4y ago
Compared with C++ or C? No way. Rust is light years ahead of the curve in terms of usability. Perhaps you're comparing with languages outside of the domain like node or python? In that case it's actually not that far off in terms of usability.
scotty79 4y ago
It has very good usability if you notice how it's different from nearly any other commonly used languages. Values semantics and only fixed size stack variables.

throw10920 4y ago

The most important feature of a tool meant to support creativity is interactivity. Last time I checked, Rust didn't have a REPL, didn't support live-patching, and didn't have fast compile times - all features critical for interactivity. Has something changed since then?

kjljsljsfdlkj 4y ago
> The most important feature of a tool meant to support creativity is interactivity. This seems like a requirement you personally came up with that does not mesh with reality. Throughout history the greatest creative achievement have been made using absurdly difficult to use non-interactive mediums. Also Rust compile times are not as slow as you imagine them to be.
- throw10920 4y ago
  > This seems like a requirement you personally came up with that does not mesh with reality. No, it's actually pretty obvious, if you actually take a moment to think about it. Creativity is about making things in reality, which necessitates the construction of new things, which means that you either need to keep design details entirely in your head while you work (which is infeasible for many things and challenging for most things) or you need to work with a medium (paint, clay, code) as you create, which means that the medium (and tool) need to be interactive. > Throughout history the greatest creative achievement have been made using absurdly difficult to use non-interactive mediums. This is completely absurd. Most, if not all, of the classical arts have used highly interactive media. Painting? Interactive medium. Sculping? Interactive. Mechanical devices, like the steam engine and the plane? Interactive. In almost every single creative field, you get the opportunity to work with things incrementally. Unfortunately, for historical reasons (namely their C lineage), most languages are non-interactive batch-processed monstrosities which inhibit creativity, and Rust is no exception. > Also Rust compile times are not as slow as you imagine them to be. I've used Rust, and the compile times are exactly what I remember them to be - tens of minutes for large programs, and tens of seconds for incremental compiles, which is tens of seconds too long.
habitue 4y ago

dang 4y ago

Related: Nannou – A Creative Coding Framework for Rust - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25343356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25343356 - Dec 2020 (25 comments) Nannou: Creative Coding Toolkit for Rust - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20147764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20147764 - June 2019 (30 comments)

chaosprint 4y ago

For those who are interested in creative coding and Rust, especially the sound/audio/music related work, you can have a look on Glicol: https://glicol.org/ https://glicol.org/ https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol A music live coding language and a DSP library written in Rust.

bmitc 4y ago
How does Glicol compare to Pure Data or Csound?

joenot443 4y ago

The example code for drawing a circle felt warmly reminiscent of SwiftUI. draw.ellipse() .color(STEELBLUE) .w(300.0) .h(200.0) .x_y(200.0, -100.0); This seems promising! The creative coding folks I know mostly use WebGL which is obviously a way, way less user friendly syntax, though the tooling itself is much simpler and available. I’ll also note that the majority of the “best” creative coders I’ve met (biggest online following, largest shows) were not SWEs and generally didn’t code much outside of their preferred creative environment. All that to say that the other commenters are right, and that what is trivial to us (build and run a rust project) is a multi day affair for the technical non-programmer. I wonder if the author would consider shipping a desktop app with a preview window, simple text editor, and play button. All the pieces are obviously there, it’s just be a bit of a pain in the ass supporting three platforms and certainly less fun that working on the library itself :)

habitue 4y ago

I interviewed an artist who uses nannou to make art daily, back in 2021: https://blog.abor.dev/p/making-generative-art-with-rust https://blog.abor.dev/p/making-generative-art-with-rust

brunoqc 4y ago

I checked the website and the docs but I still have no idea what this is about.

pas 4y ago
"creative coding" usually refers to a framework where a developer/artist can code up nice things quickly for example https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/blob/master/examples/draw/draw_polyline.rs https://github.com/nannou-org/nannou/blob/master/examples/dr... gives this funky rainbow sine wave (which seems to change as the user moves the mouse): https://camo.githubusercontent.com/edb74faf7b0d79c9e1918335e8c822d324613a126fdd06ed55ce92aa330e4fd3/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f6c6d345249344e2e676966 https://camo.githubusercontent.com/edb74faf7b0d79c9e1918335e... this seems to focus on iterative visuals (basically it's a rendering loop), there are a few music oriented frameworks too

aimor 4y ago

I was searching for a Rust tool like this not too long ago, very excited to see this and try it out!