4 ms·

When you read word-processor, you probably think Microsoft Word, LibreOffice Writer, not Xerox 6016 Memorywriter (thanks wikipedia) or any other type of electro

When you read word-processor, you probably think Microsoft Word, LibreOffice Writer, not Xerox 6016 Memorywriter (thanks wikipedia) or any other type of electronic typewriter. Maybe it's a generational thing, but the only use of ワープロ I know of is for the latter (do a google image search for ワープロ, and compare to a google image search for word processor). I'd say the expression ワープロ馬鹿 is probably very outdated.

Dalewyn 4y ago
It's generational, I think. I've always understood, both as an American and Japanese, the likes of Microsoft Word as word processing programs. This phenomenon also goes beyond Microsoft Word too, it's typing in general because the IME handles kanji conversions from hiragana/romaji.
- glandium 4y ago
  I mean I don't think ワープロ is used to designate word processor programs. ワープロソフト (literally word processor software) might, but not ワープロ. The expression ワープロ馬鹿 has probably never been used in the context of software. Nowadays, the phenomenon itself is largely driven by smartphones.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    I’m not sure what you are trying to say? That the term must have originated in the earliest word processors that had IME? Or that someone just stuck a few good sounding words together to describe a modern phenomenon?
    - glandium 4y ago
      That the term is probably more than 30 years old, and probably unheard of nowadays. Googling for it, in fact, yields more stuff in English than in Japanese.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - bjowen 4y ago
        Vague memories of there being some more up to date one, henkan-something, about the same time as the “nazeka henkan dekinai” thing
        glandium 4y ago
        Henkan miss? That would be the usage I reported at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35026961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35026961 but not the one from OP. Fun exercise, I went ahead and asked ChatGPT, here is what it had to say: Prompt: what does ワープロ馬鹿 mean? "ワープロ馬鹿" (waapuro baka) is a Japanese slang term that literally translates to "word processor idiot". It is used to refer to someone who is not proficient in handwriting kanji characters because they have become too reliant on word processing software and digital devices. This term was commonly used in the past when computers and word processors were becoming more popular in Japan and many people were losing their ability to write kanji by hand. The term implies that people who rely too much on technology to write are lacking in basic writing skills and knowledge. However, the term is now considered outdated since the use of digital devices has become more prevalent in society. Prompt: what is an equivalent term that would be used today? Today, a more common term to describe someone who relies too much on digital devices and cannot write kanji by hand is "スマホ字 (sumaho-ji)". This term is derived from "sumaho" (smartphone) and "ji" (character), and it refers to people who are unable to write kanji characters by hand due to their heavy reliance on smartphones and other digital devices for communication and writing. Other similar terms used to describe this phenomenon include "キーボード依存症 (kiiboodo ishizonshou)" which means "keyboard dependency syndrome" and "タッチペン馬鹿 (tatchipen baka)" which means "touch pen idiot". These terms reflect the increasing reliance on digital devices and the declining use of traditional writing methods in modern society. スマホ字 seems completely made up, and google results for the others suggest entirely different meanings.... On the second and third try it came up with スマホ字バカ, which doesn't exist either. When I asked entirely in Japanese, it insisted on キーボード依存症. The best it came up with after a while was 筆力低下, which literally means decline in ability to write, and doesn't seem to be used to describe this phenomenon, per Google search results.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    I think it needs to be mentioned that ワープロ (WorPro) is an abbreviation of ワードプロセッサー (Word Processor). ワードプロセッサー is defined as a computer system capable of inputing, displaying, editing, saving, and printing text. This used to refer to dedicated word processing appliances, but from around the late 90s changed to refer to word processing software for personal computers which became more popular.[1][2][3] The ワープロ馬鹿 phenomenon stems from IMEs automagically converting romaji/hiragana to kanji, and this is most commonly seen during use of word processors like Microsoft Word.[4] [1]: https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%82%BB%E3%83%83%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3... [2]: https://kotobank.jp/word/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD-10147 https://kotobank.jp/word/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%83%A... [3]: https://gogen-yurai.jp/word-processor/ https://gogen-yurai.jp/word-processor/ [4]: https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E9%A6%AC%E9%B9%BF https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E...
    - glandium 4y ago
      The funny thing is that the word is in none of the Japanese dictionaries on weblio. Only Japanese-English ones.
      - Dalewyn 4y ago
        If I had to take a guess as to why, it's probably because: 1. It's slang, so it's of more interest to foreigners who just want to make sense of what they hear compared to native speakers who wouldn't need a dictionary for this. 2. I've never heard any of my Japanese acquaintances actually call this phenomenon ワープロ馬鹿, they all say they've just been using computers too much (or handwriting too little) in their lives.
        glandium 4y ago
        Counterpoint to 1: Until this word, I've never not found slang in Japanese dictionaries. Edit: interestingly enough the most complete I found in Japanese about the word describes it differently: かなり昔のことになるが、ワープロが普及しはじめた当時、ワープロの使い過ぎで正しい漢字が分からなくなることを「ワープロ馬鹿症候群」と呼ぶ、という話を聞いた覚えがある。例えば、ワープロで「あらり」を変換してみても、「粗利」なのか「荒利」なのか正しい漢字が分からないので結局は辞書で調べないといけない、といった具合の症状だ。 (https://xtech.nikkei.com/it/article/COLUMN/20070220/262584/ https://xtech.nikkei.com/it/article/COLUMN/20070220/262584/) Short rough reinterpretation: back at the time of electronic word processors, not knowing which of the homophones was the right one to use was called ワープロ馬鹿症候群
coobird 4y ago
Indeed. When someone says ワープロ, electronic typewriters are what come to mind, just like what the Japanese Wikipedia page[1] shows. The word ワープロ馬鹿 probably wouldn't make much sense to those under 30, as they're very unlikely to have ever used a ワープロ. 1: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%82%BB%E3%83%83%E3%82%B5 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3...
- GrooveSAN 4y ago
  The floppy disk doesn’t mean a thing to younger generations, yet their icon representation is very common in a lot of UIs (save button). So this point doesn’t make sense to me in this particular discussion - even though you may be right at the end of the day.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bjowen 4y ago
Dated put probably not outdated - Japanese also retains パソコン (pasokon, short for “personal computer), which shows its age. I recall a Japanese friend explaining it in 2003, at which time the IME for kanji in Windows had had at least a decade of common use and was remarkably sophisticated. It may be that post-smartphone it’s been such a common phenomenon that everyone accepts it as part of everyday life, there are certainly enough articles and posts about it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Dalewyn 4y ago

It's generational, I think. I've always understood, both as an American and Japanese, the likes of Microsoft Word as word processing programs. This phenomenon also goes beyond Microsoft Word too, it's typing in general because the IME handles kanji conversions from hiragana/romaji.

glandium 4y ago
I mean I don't think ワープロ is used to designate word processor programs. ワープロソフト (literally word processor software) might, but not ワープロ. The expression ワープロ馬鹿 has probably never been used in the context of software. Nowadays, the phenomenon itself is largely driven by smartphones.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  I’m not sure what you are trying to say? That the term must have originated in the earliest word processors that had IME? Or that someone just stuck a few good sounding words together to describe a modern phenomenon?
  - glandium 4y ago
    That the term is probably more than 30 years old, and probably unheard of nowadays. Googling for it, in fact, yields more stuff in English than in Japanese.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - bjowen 4y ago
      Vague memories of there being some more up to date one, henkan-something, about the same time as the “nazeka henkan dekinai” thing
      - glandium 4y ago
        Henkan miss? That would be the usage I reported at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35026961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35026961 but not the one from OP. Fun exercise, I went ahead and asked ChatGPT, here is what it had to say: Prompt: what does ワープロ馬鹿 mean? "ワープロ馬鹿" (waapuro baka) is a Japanese slang term that literally translates to "word processor idiot". It is used to refer to someone who is not proficient in handwriting kanji characters because they have become too reliant on word processing software and digital devices. This term was commonly used in the past when computers and word processors were becoming more popular in Japan and many people were losing their ability to write kanji by hand. The term implies that people who rely too much on technology to write are lacking in basic writing skills and knowledge. However, the term is now considered outdated since the use of digital devices has become more prevalent in society. Prompt: what is an equivalent term that would be used today? Today, a more common term to describe someone who relies too much on digital devices and cannot write kanji by hand is "スマホ字 (sumaho-ji)". This term is derived from "sumaho" (smartphone) and "ji" (character), and it refers to people who are unable to write kanji characters by hand due to their heavy reliance on smartphones and other digital devices for communication and writing. Other similar terms used to describe this phenomenon include "キーボード依存症 (kiiboodo ishizonshou)" which means "keyboard dependency syndrome" and "タッチペン馬鹿 (tatchipen baka)" which means "touch pen idiot". These terms reflect the increasing reliance on digital devices and the declining use of traditional writing methods in modern society. スマホ字 seems completely made up, and google results for the others suggest entirely different meanings.... On the second and third try it came up with スマホ字バカ, which doesn't exist either. When I asked entirely in Japanese, it insisted on キーボード依存症. The best it came up with after a while was 筆力低下, which literally means decline in ability to write, and doesn't seem to be used to describe this phenomenon, per Google search results.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  I think it needs to be mentioned that ワープロ (WorPro) is an abbreviation of ワードプロセッサー (Word Processor). ワードプロセッサー is defined as a computer system capable of inputing, displaying, editing, saving, and printing text. This used to refer to dedicated word processing appliances, but from around the late 90s changed to refer to word processing software for personal computers which became more popular.[1][2][3] The ワープロ馬鹿 phenomenon stems from IMEs automagically converting romaji/hiragana to kanji, and this is most commonly seen during use of word processors like Microsoft Word.[4] [1]: https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%82%BB%E3%83%83%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3... [2]: https://kotobank.jp/word/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD-10147 https://kotobank.jp/word/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%83%A... [3]: https://gogen-yurai.jp/word-processor/ https://gogen-yurai.jp/word-processor/ [4]: https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E9%A6%AC%E9%B9%BF https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E...
  - glandium 4y ago
    The funny thing is that the word is in none of the Japanese dictionaries on weblio. Only Japanese-English ones.
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      If I had to take a guess as to why, it's probably because: 1. It's slang, so it's of more interest to foreigners who just want to make sense of what they hear compared to native speakers who wouldn't need a dictionary for this. 2. I've never heard any of my Japanese acquaintances actually call this phenomenon ワープロ馬鹿, they all say they've just been using computers too much (or handwriting too little) in their lives.
      - glandium 4y ago
        Counterpoint to 1: Until this word, I've never not found slang in Japanese dictionaries. Edit: interestingly enough the most complete I found in Japanese about the word describes it differently: かなり昔のことになるが、ワープロが普及しはじめた当時、ワープロの使い過ぎで正しい漢字が分からなくなることを「ワープロ馬鹿症候群」と呼ぶ、という話を聞いた覚えがある。例えば、ワープロで「あらり」を変換してみても、「粗利」なのか「荒利」なのか正しい漢字が分からないので結局は辞書で調べないといけない、といった具合の症状だ。 (https://xtech.nikkei.com/it/article/COLUMN/20070220/262584/ https://xtech.nikkei.com/it/article/COLUMN/20070220/262584/) Short rough reinterpretation: back at the time of electronic word processors, not knowing which of the homophones was the right one to use was called ワープロ馬鹿症候群

coobird 4y ago

Indeed. When someone says ワープロ, electronic typewriters are what come to mind, just like what the Japanese Wikipedia page[1] shows. The word ワープロ馬鹿 probably wouldn't make much sense to those under 30, as they're very unlikely to have ever used a ワープロ. 1: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%82%BB%E3%83%83%E3%82%B5 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3...

GrooveSAN 4y ago
The floppy disk doesn’t mean a thing to younger generations, yet their icon representation is very common in a lot of UIs (save button). So this point doesn’t make sense to me in this particular discussion - even though you may be right at the end of the day.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bjowen 4y ago

Dated put probably not outdated - Japanese also retains パソコン (pasokon, short for “personal computer), which shows its age. I recall a Japanese friend explaining it in 2003, at which time the IME for kanji in Windows had had at least a decade of common use and was remarkably sophisticated. It may be that post-smartphone it’s been such a common phenomenon that everyone accepts it as part of everyday life, there are certainly enough articles and posts about it.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]