4 ms·

> Playing the devil's advocate here, why should we teach handwriting at all? Why not just have first-graders learn to type? I really can't tell if you're being

> Playing the devil's advocate here, why should we teach handwriting at all? Why not just have first-graders learn to type? I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. The most obvious response is: sometimes you have to fill out forms on the spot. Also, I personally find that I have much greater retention for handwritten vs typed information.

kakapo88 4y ago
Also, even in the future, the power will go off once in awhile. Hand-writing would be like swimming. Not necessarily used much, but a skill worth keeping.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  The level of training you need for basic swimming is only a couple hours. The teaching for handwriting is a lot more than that. Anyone who uses the latin alphabet will have the character shapes memorized, so I'm sure they'd do just fine for emergency use even if they'd basically never written before. That said, a huge amount of handwriting curriculum is actually motor skills practice, and that's pretty important!
- wrycoder 4y ago
  Handwriting small notes in a meeting is less obtrusive than hauling out a laptop or thumbing a phone. I carry a 3.5 by 5.5 inch Cahier and a Spacepen at all times. If I need to write more extensively, I use one of my fountain pens. It's also free-form. If I want to include a sketch or some math, it's easy.
quitit 4y ago
"Also, I personally find that I have much greater retention for handwritten vs typed information." Studies support your anecdote: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/taking-notes-by-hand-could-improve-memory-wt/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/taking-notes-by-hand-c...
- dougSF70 4y ago
  All of those studies were funded by Big Pencil companies...a lot of bias.
  - labster 4y ago
    Pentel, more like cartel, right?
    - dougSF70 4y ago
      Exactly!
  - quitit 4y ago
    Shh, they'll send Big Eraser to rub you out.
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  Interesting! I've watched my wife writing things while studying that I can't imagine her ever referring to and I have the impression she regards writing it as a means of helping her learn. I'm aware of the value of taking notes but what she's doing is direct copying, no digesting.
warent 4y ago
I wonder if that retention has to do with having learned handwriting before typing, and that one who learns typing first would have equal retention to one who writes. Would be interesting if a study is done on this! (Of course, carefully, so as not at the expense of children)
- lo_zamoyski 4y ago
  No. I believe it has to do with the greater richness of motion involved. Writing a letter involves more effort and a specific motion of the hand for each letter and these are different for each letter (pushing keys on a keyboard is largely undifferentiated; what really varies is the position the fingers have to go, not the motion needed to produce a character which is the same). This, I think, exploits spatial memory as well (note how mnemonic devices like the method of loci work).
  - Falkon1313 4y ago
    That does matter! A Stanford study on brain computer interface implants found that 'mentally handwriting' instead of 'mentally typing' was more than twice as fast, in some cases over triple. Because of those different motions/patterns for each letter. >https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/05/software-turns-handwriting-thoughts-into-on-screen-text.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/05/software-turn...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ghaff 4y ago
That's an argument for learning how to print though (which I agree is necessary) rather than learning cursive.
vasco 4y ago
All the forms I ever had to fill were in block letters. In fact as a kid we only learned cursive so I wasn't used to writing in block letters when filling in forms which was weird. Are people referring to cursive as any type of manual writing?
- wrycoder 4y ago
  You use both. Commonly referred to as printing and cursive. First, you learn to print, then you lean cursive. Lately, people have been calling printing "manuscript", which is either silly or an attempt to dignify it. Nowadays, some say, why learn handwriting? Why learn arithmetic? We have calculators and keyboards, after all. It's sad, but there will be a revival someday.

kakapo88 4y ago

Also, even in the future, the power will go off once in awhile. Hand-writing would be like swimming. Not necessarily used much, but a skill worth keeping.

Dylan16807 4y ago
The level of training you need for basic swimming is only a couple hours. The teaching for handwriting is a lot more than that. Anyone who uses the latin alphabet will have the character shapes memorized, so I'm sure they'd do just fine for emergency use even if they'd basically never written before. That said, a huge amount of handwriting curriculum is actually motor skills practice, and that's pretty important!
wrycoder 4y ago
Handwriting small notes in a meeting is less obtrusive than hauling out a laptop or thumbing a phone. I carry a 3.5 by 5.5 inch Cahier and a Spacepen at all times. If I need to write more extensively, I use one of my fountain pens. It's also free-form. If I want to include a sketch or some math, it's easy.

quitit 4y ago

"Also, I personally find that I have much greater retention for handwritten vs typed information." Studies support your anecdote: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/taking-notes-by-hand-could-improve-memory-wt/ https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/taking-notes-by-hand-c...

dougSF70 4y ago
All of those studies were funded by Big Pencil companies...a lot of bias.
- labster 4y ago
  Pentel, more like cartel, right?
  - dougSF70 4y ago
    Exactly!
- quitit 4y ago
  Shh, they'll send Big Eraser to rub you out.
LorenPechtel 4y ago
Interesting! I've watched my wife writing things while studying that I can't imagine her ever referring to and I have the impression she regards writing it as a means of helping her learn. I'm aware of the value of taking notes but what she's doing is direct copying, no digesting.

warent 4y ago

I wonder if that retention has to do with having learned handwriting before typing, and that one who learns typing first would have equal retention to one who writes. Would be interesting if a study is done on this! (Of course, carefully, so as not at the expense of children)

lo_zamoyski 4y ago
No. I believe it has to do with the greater richness of motion involved. Writing a letter involves more effort and a specific motion of the hand for each letter and these are different for each letter (pushing keys on a keyboard is largely undifferentiated; what really varies is the position the fingers have to go, not the motion needed to produce a character which is the same). This, I think, exploits spatial memory as well (note how mnemonic devices like the method of loci work).
- Falkon1313 4y ago
  That does matter! A Stanford study on brain computer interface implants found that 'mentally handwriting' instead of 'mentally typing' was more than twice as fast, in some cases over triple. Because of those different motions/patterns for each letter. >https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/05/software-turns-handwriting-thoughts-into-on-screen-text.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/05/software-turn...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ghaff 4y ago

That's an argument for learning how to print though (which I agree is necessary) rather than learning cursive.

vasco 4y ago

All the forms I ever had to fill were in block letters. In fact as a kid we only learned cursive so I wasn't used to writing in block letters when filling in forms which was weird. Are people referring to cursive as any type of manual writing?

wrycoder 4y ago
You use both. Commonly referred to as printing and cursive. First, you learn to print, then you lean cursive. Lately, people have been calling printing "manuscript", which is either silly or an attempt to dignify it. Nowadays, some say, why learn handwriting? Why learn arithmetic? We have calculators and keyboards, after all. It's sad, but there will be a revival someday.