7 ms·

Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

PartiallyTyped 4y ago
While this is quite different to the usual content, I believe that sharing this information is important for members of our community and their families in order to prepare for the possible outcomes. The title has been edited to fit. The complete title is: “Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans parents or siblings — even if they live in another state”
- rbanffy 4y ago
  This sounds absolutely terrible. There's a lot that needs fixing in the US right now.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    It's all theater. Most of Florida's laws are getting struck down in the federal courts but that's not the point - the point is for Desantis to score political points in his bid for the 2024 presidential run. All that matters is he took the appropriate steps to "own" the libs. That's what passes for Republican governance these days. I'm old enough to remember when TV cameras were called idiot magnets. Now the idiots are TV camera magnets. Such is the way of the modern world.
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      Every law like this drags the Overton window further to the right by normalising the exclusionary discourse. The goal is not to get them passed at first try, but, if nothing is done, they will get passed at some point.
  - bsaul 4y ago
    It does sound like common sense to me though... I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Either we consider kids to be kids, and thus not totally "settled" psychologically (for the lack of a better word), or we don't. PS: the issue of taking kids custody out of trans parents is an entirely different matter though..And i agree that states "kidnapping" them is highly problematic.
    - hairofadog 4y ago
      Out of curiosity, how many minors do you believe undergo sex-reassignment surgery?
      - bsaul 4y ago
        i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but my fear is the "trend" effect. The fact that this issue is becoming widely discussed can easily influence teenagers into believing this is the solution to their problem (that's what teenagers do : they get easily influenced).
        plorkyeran 4y ago
        Worldwide numbers are obviously complicated, but in the united states the median number per year is zero if you exclude intersex babies. Sexual reassignment surgery on minors is an entirely made up concern. Even HRT is unusual, and typically teens only receive puberty blockers specifically to let them defer the decision until adulthood.
        PartiallyTyped 4y ago
        Part of gender affirming healthcare - which also includes possibly affirming a gender congruent to their sex - is extensive therapy and investigations by psychiatrists. People are not handed HRT like candies, nor do they undergo such surgeries on a whim. By banning gender affirming healthcare you force kids and adults to seek HRT off the market, from possibly malicious and opportunistic actors. It’s no different to drug policies really. The war on drugs has failed in every state and country that has attempted it, whereas the humanitarian approach taken by Portugal has shown to actually solve the issue. If indeed there is a trend, doesn’t it make more sense to have the kids reviewed by certified and approved medical professionals and give them therapy and evaluation instead of making it harder and hoping that they don’t go to gray market? There is an enormous amount of research done on the topic, and is definitely not new either.
  - shrimp_emoji 4y ago
    These are growing pains caused by the U.S. being ahead of the curve in dealing with trans issues. So (if you think trans issues are legitimate), relative to the rest of the world, maybe the U.S. needs the least fixing. :p
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      > U.S. being ahead of the curve in dealing with trans issues. Florida is, but only in the sense Republicans are working on a "final solution to the trans question".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Chronoyes 4y ago
[flagged]
- HeresTheT 4y ago
  Florida Senate Bill 254 is the bill. The text of the bill: https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 The fact that this made it to the senate and house in Florida is a story worth discussing.
  - Chronoyes 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - NikolaNovak 4y ago
      I'm confused ; I could buy the first request, but now the cheese has inexplicably moved? Request was for credible source. Somebody provided text to actual bill. That is the canonical credible source - no interpretation, bait, translation, summary or slant. What is your expectation in terms of "credible source" then - keep trying until they guess your preferred news source?
      - Chronoyes 4y ago
        [flagged]
        HeresTheT 4y ago
        You don't need to read thousands of government documents. You can read one. And then discuss it.
        NikolaNovak 4y ago
        I think at some point, if you're presented a media article, and if on demand you're then presented the original source, if you feel the need to have it filtered through a particular funnel, Google can be your friend. Alternatively it is possible (if not likely) your preferred outlets may not, for various reasons, cover this story. So maybe it doesn't exist! As you say, that's how the world works ;-)
Pigalowda 4y ago
“child is "at risk of or is being subjected to the provision of sex reassignment prescriptions or procedures," according to the proposed bill text. The proposed bill defines sex reassignment prescriptions or procedures as hormone therapy, puberty blockers, and surgeries or procedures that "affirm a person's perception of his or her sex if that perception is inconsistent with the person's sex" at birth
- wesleywt 4y ago
  I still don't understand how a trans-parent makes a child at "risk" of getting hormones. Republicans have taken a Twitter issue and made it their only platform. I wonder how much traction a hate campaign will get you in an election. Going by the mid-terms, not that much.
  - krapp 4y ago
    This isn't a "Twitter issue," this is the result of a moral panic created by the political normalization of QAnon within the post-Trumpist Republican Party and their "groomer" conspiracy theories[0,1]. They believe trans identity is a vector for pedophilia and child abuse and that trans people want to forcibly "convert" children against their will. It's Pizzagate combined with the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, and unfortunately it seems to have no problem getting traction. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_grooming_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_grooming_conspiracy_theor... [1]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/transgender-far-right-qanon-violence-b2108235.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
    - Pigalowda 4y ago
      That's a very hot take!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
AgentK20 4y ago
So that it doesn't get buried under a downvoted branch of the comments, here is the original text of the bill for anyone who wants to read it directly: https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023
figlett 4y ago
[flagged]

While this is quite different to the usual content, I believe that sharing this information is important for members of our community and their families in order to prepare for the possible outcomes. The title has been edited to fit. The complete title is: “Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans parents or siblings — even if they live in another state”

rbanffy 4y ago
This sounds absolutely terrible. There's a lot that needs fixing in the US right now.
- taylodl 4y ago
  It's all theater. Most of Florida's laws are getting struck down in the federal courts but that's not the point - the point is for Desantis to score political points in his bid for the 2024 presidential run. All that matters is he took the appropriate steps to "own" the libs. That's what passes for Republican governance these days. I'm old enough to remember when TV cameras were called idiot magnets. Now the idiots are TV camera magnets. Such is the way of the modern world.
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    Every law like this drags the Overton window further to the right by normalising the exclusionary discourse. The goal is not to get them passed at first try, but, if nothing is done, they will get passed at some point.
- bsaul 4y ago
  It does sound like common sense to me though... I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Either we consider kids to be kids, and thus not totally "settled" psychologically (for the lack of a better word), or we don't. PS: the issue of taking kids custody out of trans parents is an entirely different matter though..And i agree that states "kidnapping" them is highly problematic.
  - hairofadog 4y ago
    Out of curiosity, how many minors do you believe undergo sex-reassignment surgery?
    - bsaul 4y ago
      i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but my fear is the "trend" effect. The fact that this issue is becoming widely discussed can easily influence teenagers into believing this is the solution to their problem (that's what teenagers do : they get easily influenced).
      - plorkyeran 4y ago
        Worldwide numbers are obviously complicated, but in the united states the median number per year is zero if you exclude intersex babies. Sexual reassignment surgery on minors is an entirely made up concern. Even HRT is unusual, and typically teens only receive puberty blockers specifically to let them defer the decision until adulthood.
      - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
        Part of gender affirming healthcare - which also includes possibly affirming a gender congruent to their sex - is extensive therapy and investigations by psychiatrists. People are not handed HRT like candies, nor do they undergo such surgeries on a whim. By banning gender affirming healthcare you force kids and adults to seek HRT off the market, from possibly malicious and opportunistic actors. It’s no different to drug policies really. The war on drugs has failed in every state and country that has attempted it, whereas the humanitarian approach taken by Portugal has shown to actually solve the issue. If indeed there is a trend, doesn’t it make more sense to have the kids reviewed by certified and approved medical professionals and give them therapy and evaluation instead of making it harder and hoping that they don’t go to gray market? There is an enormous amount of research done on the topic, and is definitely not new either.
- shrimp_emoji 4y ago
  These are growing pains caused by the U.S. being ahead of the curve in dealing with trans issues. So (if you think trans issues are legitimate), relative to the rest of the world, maybe the U.S. needs the least fixing. :p
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    > U.S. being ahead of the curve in dealing with trans issues. Florida is, but only in the sense Republicans are working on a "final solution to the trans question".
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Chronoyes 4y ago

[flagged]

HeresTheT 4y ago
Florida Senate Bill 254 is the bill. The text of the bill: https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 The fact that this made it to the senate and house in Florida is a story worth discussing.
- Chronoyes 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    I'm confused ; I could buy the first request, but now the cheese has inexplicably moved? Request was for credible source. Somebody provided text to actual bill. That is the canonical credible source - no interpretation, bait, translation, summary or slant. What is your expectation in terms of "credible source" then - keep trying until they guess your preferred news source?
    - Chronoyes 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - HeresTheT 4y ago
        You don't need to read thousands of government documents. You can read one. And then discuss it.
      - NikolaNovak 4y ago
        I think at some point, if you're presented a media article, and if on demand you're then presented the original source, if you feel the need to have it filtered through a particular funnel, Google can be your friend. Alternatively it is possible (if not likely) your preferred outlets may not, for various reasons, cover this story. So maybe it doesn't exist! As you say, that's how the world works ;-)

Pigalowda 4y ago

“child is "at risk of or is being subjected to the provision of sex reassignment prescriptions or procedures," according to the proposed bill text. The proposed bill defines sex reassignment prescriptions or procedures as hormone therapy, puberty blockers, and surgeries or procedures that "affirm a person's perception of his or her sex if that perception is inconsistent with the person's sex" at birth

wesleywt 4y ago
I still don't understand how a trans-parent makes a child at "risk" of getting hormones. Republicans have taken a Twitter issue and made it their only platform. I wonder how much traction a hate campaign will get you in an election. Going by the mid-terms, not that much.
- krapp 4y ago
  This isn't a "Twitter issue," this is the result of a moral panic created by the political normalization of QAnon within the post-Trumpist Republican Party and their "groomer" conspiracy theories[0,1]. They believe trans identity is a vector for pedophilia and child abuse and that trans people want to forcibly "convert" children against their will. It's Pizzagate combined with the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, and unfortunately it seems to have no problem getting traction. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_grooming_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_grooming_conspiracy_theor... [1]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/transgender-far-right-qanon-violence-b2108235.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
  - Pigalowda 4y ago
    That's a very hot take!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

AgentK20 4y ago

So that it doesn't get buried under a downvoted branch of the comments, here is the original text of the bill for anyone who wants to read it directly: https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023

figlett 4y ago

[flagged]