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Exactly. Not to mention high level business logic could be inferred from system architecture. Sure sounds like a good way to perform recon on a target company.

by cyc116 4y ago

rednerrus 4y ago
We say specifically “diagram a technical system you understand well.” It’s going to be challenging to work in technology if the only technical system you understand well is the one you’re currently working on and only the parts that are under NDA.
- cauthon 4y ago
  I have the opposite question from other people in the thread - this seems pretty open-ended. Just as an example, I do bioinformatics work, and "technical system" for someone I'm interviewing (as I understand your question) might encompass any of: - a workflow manager: how it works under the hood, common patterns for modularity/reuse or configuration - a specific pipeline: the stages of cleaning and quantifying raw data, the rationale for various stages and the tools chosen to execute them (including how to benchmark various methods against each other) - a specific third-party tool: theoretical details of the algorithm, practical considerations for when to apply one over another - familiarity with common general-purpose packages or APIs (e.g. pandas, numpy, scikit-learn) - QC: common metrics for QC'ing various experimental data, how to decide if data is "good enough", how to troubleshoot biological vs technical (lab) vs technical (computational) sources of error - biology: technical details of an experiment, the technologies generating the data, or the underlying biology - data analysis: how to choose and make relevant figures, any of many data-science/ML topics (e.g. clustering), connecting data to relevant domain questions - devops: data storage/management on HPC or cloud, HPC job schedulers, any of many cloud topics (e.g. IAC, setting up a database or cloud execution of a pipeline) I'm more curious about how you guide a candidate towards selecting a system that gives you the most relevant perspective on their thinking and skillset - do you provide any suggestions, or are there typically pretty evident choices based on the role?
  - rednerrus 4y ago
    For our more junior roles, we leave it more open ended because candidates may not have a similar knowledge bases to the panel. For more senior roles we advise that if they pick technologies that are pertinent to the role and likely to be understood by senior/lead/staff engineers, the process will go better for candidates and panel members. If I were in your position, one of understanding many complex systems, I would advise you to pick where you felt both strong and the panel was likely to have some entry point into.
- ikiris 4y ago
  I literally can't diagram 90% of the stacks I've worked on in the last 8 years because they're highly NDA.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    So draw the block diagram of something you worked on in school. Or, I don't know, a radio or something, if you're a hardware person. Someone who answers, "I can't draw anything for you because everything I know about is somebody's private IP," isn't going to get the job. At least, not if I'm doing the interviewing. You must know something about something else. Right?
    - Hermitian909 4y ago
      Or just interview some place that doesn't give this kind of interview, like most companies. It's pretty trivial to get hired even if you can't talk about technical specifics along the lines of an architecture diagram.
    - ikiris 4y ago
      Sure, I'd like to draw a vaccum cleaner, because this interview seems to suck and be unrelated to my job role. :)
      - CamperBob2 4y ago
        "Great, that'll do nicely. Vacuum cleaners are complicated and interesting machines. What can you tell me about how a vacuum cleaner is built and how it works? Also, vacuum cleaners are pretty old tech. Is there room for further innovation in that area? If so, what angles would you explore if you worked at a vacuum cleaner company?"
        Jach 4y ago
        This is a great way to get BS'd into thinking someone is qualified when they're not. Work sample tests are all you need.

Exactly. Not to mention high level business logic could be inferred from system architecture. Sure sounds like a good way to perform recon on a target company.

by cyc116 4y ago

Exactly. Not to mention high level business logic could be inferred from system architecture. Sure sounds like a good way to perform recon on a target company.

rednerrus 4y ago

We say specifically “diagram a technical system you understand well.” It’s going to be challenging to work in technology if the only technical system you understand well is the one you’re currently working on and only the parts that are under NDA.

cauthon 4y ago
I have the opposite question from other people in the thread - this seems pretty open-ended. Just as an example, I do bioinformatics work, and "technical system" for someone I'm interviewing (as I understand your question) might encompass any of: - a workflow manager: how it works under the hood, common patterns for modularity/reuse or configuration - a specific pipeline: the stages of cleaning and quantifying raw data, the rationale for various stages and the tools chosen to execute them (including how to benchmark various methods against each other) - a specific third-party tool: theoretical details of the algorithm, practical considerations for when to apply one over another - familiarity with common general-purpose packages or APIs (e.g. pandas, numpy, scikit-learn) - QC: common metrics for QC'ing various experimental data, how to decide if data is "good enough", how to troubleshoot biological vs technical (lab) vs technical (computational) sources of error - biology: technical details of an experiment, the technologies generating the data, or the underlying biology - data analysis: how to choose and make relevant figures, any of many data-science/ML topics (e.g. clustering), connecting data to relevant domain questions - devops: data storage/management on HPC or cloud, HPC job schedulers, any of many cloud topics (e.g. IAC, setting up a database or cloud execution of a pipeline) I'm more curious about how you guide a candidate towards selecting a system that gives you the most relevant perspective on their thinking and skillset - do you provide any suggestions, or are there typically pretty evident choices based on the role?
- rednerrus 4y ago
  For our more junior roles, we leave it more open ended because candidates may not have a similar knowledge bases to the panel. For more senior roles we advise that if they pick technologies that are pertinent to the role and likely to be understood by senior/lead/staff engineers, the process will go better for candidates and panel members. If I were in your position, one of understanding many complex systems, I would advise you to pick where you felt both strong and the panel was likely to have some entry point into.
ikiris 4y ago
I literally can't diagram 90% of the stacks I've worked on in the last 8 years because they're highly NDA.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  So draw the block diagram of something you worked on in school. Or, I don't know, a radio or something, if you're a hardware person. Someone who answers, "I can't draw anything for you because everything I know about is somebody's private IP," isn't going to get the job. At least, not if I'm doing the interviewing. You must know something about something else. Right?
  - Hermitian909 4y ago
    Or just interview some place that doesn't give this kind of interview, like most companies. It's pretty trivial to get hired even if you can't talk about technical specifics along the lines of an architecture diagram.
  - ikiris 4y ago
    Sure, I'd like to draw a vaccum cleaner, because this interview seems to suck and be unrelated to my job role. :)
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      "Great, that'll do nicely. Vacuum cleaners are complicated and interesting machines. What can you tell me about how a vacuum cleaner is built and how it works? Also, vacuum cleaners are pretty old tech. Is there room for further innovation in that area? If so, what angles would you explore if you worked at a vacuum cleaner company?"
      - Jach 4y ago
        This is a great way to get BS'd into thinking someone is qualified when they're not. Work sample tests are all you need.