5 ms·

Several groups have 'solved' this issue by making more human readable coordinate systems. IIRC, What3Words kicked things off, but there were licensing and regi

Several groups have 'solved' this issue by making more human readable coordinate systems. IIRC, What3Words kicked things off, but there were licensing and regional issues that slowed adoption. I personally like Google's free and open source Plus Codes. You can vary the precision by adding more digits to the location: "The precision of a plus code is indicated by the number of digits after the "+" sign. Two digits after the plus sign is an area roughly 13.7 by 13.7 meters; Three digits after the plus sign is an area roughly 2.7 by 3.5 meters; Four digits after the plus sign is an area roughly 0.5 by 0.8 meters." https://maps.google.com/pluscodes/learn/ https://maps.google.com/pluscodes/learn/

VLM 4y ago
MGRS military grid reference system works the same way, more digits more precision. There's a mil-sci-fi novel (forgot name, can't google) where some artillery officer thinks its funny to be a dick and give out ten digit grids "because he can" whereas normal humans mostly use 8 digit grids (like you'd use in a 9-line). I thought that book reference was funny because I'd give out ten digits for the LOLs when I was in the Army. Everyone who gets access to Y or M-code DGPS for the first time has to be a joker LOL. 8 digits is good enough to park a car, 10 digits is good enough to specify an individual theater seat (roughly) GPS is like TV where most people consider it magic and don't care how it works, but if you're of a technical bent there's an infinitely deep rabbit hole to dive into.
- myself248 4y ago
  Civilian L1+L2+DGPS is like that now. I can specify my left footprint differently from my right footprint and the difference is meaningful.
crazygringo 4y ago
Plus codes are now nearly a decade old. I always thought they were a cool idea, but has anybody actually started using them as part of everyday life? Not as a novelty extra, but actually a main productivity flow for anything? Seems like usually when people need to send an exact location short-term then send a pin from Google/Apple Maps. While reference works use traditional lat/lon. It did always seem to me that they'd work well as a kind of foundation for postal codes, in places without regular addresses -- exactly what you seem to be suggesting here. But has any country or municipality done so?
- mmis1000 4y ago
  Probably just send a google map short url (assume you have network access). I found it's easier to just ask people that have difficulty to describe where are them to send gps location via IMs instead. It'a wild that technology evolves so much in 20 years that having difficulty to recognize the location is non-issue when travelling as long as you have phone on your hand.
- ortusdux 4y ago
  They were on my mind because I used them last week while arguing with a FedEx rep about an 'undeliverable' address in Amsterdam. The formal address system for the destination was just the name of the road and the warehouse number. FedEx refused to attempt to redeliver without a more specific address, so I read the Plus code over the phone and that seemed to work. It was very confusing as typing either the address or code into google maps brought up the same result, so I don't know why the code worked any better. It was also very frustrating as my shipment was headed to warehouse 5, and warehouse 25, 1km down the same road with the same type of address was an official FedEx ship location.
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    Wow, that's very cool FedEx would accept a Plus code over the phone. I never would have guessed that. Thanks for that info, this is the first time I've heard it being legitimately used "in the wild". I'm guessing that in this case maybe the address was missing from a proprietary address database used by FedEx -- in Google Maps but FedEx couldn't access it. I actually find it somewhat mystifying just how frequently companies that rely on accurate addresses (FedEx, Uber, etc.) have shoddy data -- and not just it not being kept up-to-date, but it actually regressing.
    - ortusdux 4y ago
      It's not uncommon for drivers to mark packages as undeliverable when they run out of time on their route.
PeterisP 4y ago
It's worth reminding any readers that what3words is a horrible coordinate system for human usage due to its unreliability. The key flaw is the choice of words that are easily confused by humans such as including both the singular and plural of the same word (e.g. likely.stage.sock and likely.stages.sock are on the opposite sides of a river) which are easily mixed up both when spoken/heard and when remembered/repeated, and also many words which sound similar e.g. 'innocence' and 'innocents', 'wants' and 'once', etc. Of course, it's not an issue when copy-pasting, but then you might as well copy Lat/Lon or URLs, the spoken usage is the main benefit for this concept; so if your use case does need a system like what3words, it has to be something other than the 'original' what3words.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  We have this in the real world, too, where Knoxville developers name everything on their Tanasi property Tanasi Ln and Ct and Rd, with Tanasi Ave on the other side of the lake from Tanasi Dr. (Or Phoenix, where mixing up 70th St and Ave is a bad day.)
  - vidanay 4y ago
    In the southwest suburbs of Chicago, it's possible to live at the corner of 85th and 85th. https://goo.gl/maps/bghkvYUNyLWP1rfV7 https://goo.gl/maps/bghkvYUNyLWP1rfV7
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > In the southwest suburbs of Chicago, it's possible to live at the corner of 85th and 85th. What's so weird about that? Isn't that super common in any city with a grid of numbered streets?
      - vidanay 4y ago
        Typically grids use numbers in one direction and names in the other direction.
stonewareslord 4y ago
I actually almost have a working version of a replacement for what3words/Xaddress/etc that solves every gripe I know of. Format is: (1-1024) WORD WORD WORD with a relatively short wordlist (8k words). Maps to ~1 square meter and plurals/singular words represent the same value. Completely open source to everyone. My gripe with pluscodes is memorizability. Number and 3 words from a short list should be pretty easy to remember and write down. Either way, my replacement can easily map to plus codes/lat lon/google maps/openstreetmap. I'm super excited about it. I'll probably post here when it's closer to done.

VLM 4y ago

MGRS military grid reference system works the same way, more digits more precision. There's a mil-sci-fi novel (forgot name, can't google) where some artillery officer thinks its funny to be a dick and give out ten digit grids "because he can" whereas normal humans mostly use 8 digit grids (like you'd use in a 9-line). I thought that book reference was funny because I'd give out ten digits for the LOLs when I was in the Army. Everyone who gets access to Y or M-code DGPS for the first time has to be a joker LOL. 8 digits is good enough to park a car, 10 digits is good enough to specify an individual theater seat (roughly) GPS is like TV where most people consider it magic and don't care how it works, but if you're of a technical bent there's an infinitely deep rabbit hole to dive into.

myself248 4y ago
Civilian L1+L2+DGPS is like that now. I can specify my left footprint differently from my right footprint and the difference is meaningful.

crazygringo 4y ago

Plus codes are now nearly a decade old. I always thought they were a cool idea, but has anybody actually started using them as part of everyday life? Not as a novelty extra, but actually a main productivity flow for anything? Seems like usually when people need to send an exact location short-term then send a pin from Google/Apple Maps. While reference works use traditional lat/lon. It did always seem to me that they'd work well as a kind of foundation for postal codes, in places without regular addresses -- exactly what you seem to be suggesting here. But has any country or municipality done so?

mmis1000 4y ago
Probably just send a google map short url (assume you have network access). I found it's easier to just ask people that have difficulty to describe where are them to send gps location via IMs instead. It'a wild that technology evolves so much in 20 years that having difficulty to recognize the location is non-issue when travelling as long as you have phone on your hand.
ortusdux 4y ago
They were on my mind because I used them last week while arguing with a FedEx rep about an 'undeliverable' address in Amsterdam. The formal address system for the destination was just the name of the road and the warehouse number. FedEx refused to attempt to redeliver without a more specific address, so I read the Plus code over the phone and that seemed to work. It was very confusing as typing either the address or code into google maps brought up the same result, so I don't know why the code worked any better. It was also very frustrating as my shipment was headed to warehouse 5, and warehouse 25, 1km down the same road with the same type of address was an official FedEx ship location.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  Wow, that's very cool FedEx would accept a Plus code over the phone. I never would have guessed that. Thanks for that info, this is the first time I've heard it being legitimately used "in the wild". I'm guessing that in this case maybe the address was missing from a proprietary address database used by FedEx -- in Google Maps but FedEx couldn't access it. I actually find it somewhat mystifying just how frequently companies that rely on accurate addresses (FedEx, Uber, etc.) have shoddy data -- and not just it not being kept up-to-date, but it actually regressing.
  - ortusdux 4y ago
    It's not uncommon for drivers to mark packages as undeliverable when they run out of time on their route.

PeterisP 4y ago

It's worth reminding any readers that what3words is a horrible coordinate system for human usage due to its unreliability. The key flaw is the choice of words that are easily confused by humans such as including both the singular and plural of the same word (e.g. likely.stage.sock and likely.stages.sock are on the opposite sides of a river) which are easily mixed up both when spoken/heard and when remembered/repeated, and also many words which sound similar e.g. 'innocence' and 'innocents', 'wants' and 'once', etc. Of course, it's not an issue when copy-pasting, but then you might as well copy Lat/Lon or URLs, the spoken usage is the main benefit for this concept; so if your use case does need a system like what3words, it has to be something other than the 'original' what3words.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
We have this in the real world, too, where Knoxville developers name everything on their Tanasi property Tanasi Ln and Ct and Rd, with Tanasi Ave on the other side of the lake from Tanasi Dr. (Or Phoenix, where mixing up 70th St and Ave is a bad day.)
- vidanay 4y ago
  In the southwest suburbs of Chicago, it's possible to live at the corner of 85th and 85th. https://goo.gl/maps/bghkvYUNyLWP1rfV7 https://goo.gl/maps/bghkvYUNyLWP1rfV7
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > In the southwest suburbs of Chicago, it's possible to live at the corner of 85th and 85th. What's so weird about that? Isn't that super common in any city with a grid of numbered streets?
    - vidanay 4y ago
      Typically grids use numbers in one direction and names in the other direction.

stonewareslord 4y ago

I actually almost have a working version of a replacement for what3words/Xaddress/etc that solves every gripe I know of. Format is: (1-1024) WORD WORD WORD with a relatively short wordlist (8k words). Maps to ~1 square meter and plurals/singular words represent the same value. Completely open source to everyone. My gripe with pluscodes is memorizability. Number and 3 words from a short list should be pretty easy to remember and write down. Either way, my replacement can easily map to plus codes/lat lon/google maps/openstreetmap. I'm super excited about it. I'll probably post here when it's closer to done.