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I guess the days when refunds were frictionless so that consumers could purchase with confidence are gone? Refunds have always been a cost of doing business - i

by jarym 4y ago

I guess the days when refunds were frictionless so that consumers could purchase with confidence are gone? Refunds have always been a cost of doing business - it just seems the processors / card companies want to change the rules and have their cake and eat it now that cash is mostly dead.

gowld 4y ago
Refunds are still frictionless for consumers. It's vendors who have to maintain product quality and prevent fraud to avoid returns. It's not Square's job to make sure that a vendor's product is high-quality or that customers really want to keep the products they buy. Credit cards mostly work the same way. https://www.cardfellow.com/blog/credit-card-refund-fees https://www.cardfellow.com/blog/credit-card-refund-fees
- peanuty1 4y ago
  To be fair, sometimes people return stuff for arbitrary reasons like changing their mind.
  - crote 4y ago
    Yes, and that's totally fine. That's part of doing business and stores already take that into account. However, the web shop I work at pays a 3% processing fee on returned payments initiated by us. It just makes no sense.
    - Alupis 4y ago
      I don't know who your current processor is, but if you have any real volume, get off Square/Stripe if that's where you are at. Their rates are awful for volume sellers. Square approached us a few years back and could not comprehend why we weren't jumping at their offered 2.6% + $0.35... "but the AI!?!?" is all their sales people could come up with. We're well below 2% + $0.20 per transaction for all cards (including AMEX, believe it or not). Square/Stripe and the rest are great for being Turn-Key for new businesses. But for anyone with real volume, they are a joke.
- arrosenberg 4y ago
  Yeah, it's still bullshit. Almost all vendors are going to experience some amount of returns and it costs almost nothing to process it. This is just another form of rent seeking from the credit card processors
- Alupis 4y ago
  Majority of returns are for BS reasons, regardless of how quality your listings and products are. "Item Defective" - Unopened factory sealed, tamper-proof blister pack. "Not Received In Time" - Delivered 3 days ahead of schedule. "Too Small" - Item clearly says in multiple places, and even demonstrates in images, the item is 2mm in diameter. The result? Everyone pays more for the products so we can support a few bad apples serially returning stuff. This new policy from Square is going to stick merchants with an empty bag for all returns. Which ultimately will make merchants more careful, to avoid getting hosed, ie. raise prices for everyone to support a loss on a returned or cancelled transaction. If a transaction is cancelled, or reversed/refunded - nobody should be making a profit. That includes Square, Visa, etc. This is just an absurd anti-consumer policy that small businesses (the only ones using Square) will get blamed for being greedy over.
  - makestuff 4y ago
    Another big one is clothing. Order two sizes and send the one back that doesn't fit.
    - Alupis 4y ago
      Zappos is a prime example of this. Most folks order two or three of the same shoe, and return the ones that did not fit. Zappos has Free Shipping to you, and Free Return Shipping. And... if you price shop the shoes, Zappos is rarely-if-ever the cheapest. You pay for that "service"...
    - ChoGGi 4y ago
      When clothing manufacturers remove an inch or three to make people feel better about themselves, what else can you do?
      - nordsieck 4y ago
        > When clothing manufacturers remove an inch or three to make people feel better about themselves, what else can you do? Is that actually a thing for clothes sized in inches? Or are you referring to the unitless sizing of women's clothes? I do get that unitless sizing is annoying to deal with. But it's apparently popular enough to exist as a thing. For Men's clothes that aren't measured in inches and are instead s/m/l/..., I find those measurement to be shockingly stable across the industry. Although, to be fair, men's clothes are generally meant to fit more loosely than many articles of women's clothes.

by jarym 4y ago

gowld 4y ago

Refunds are still frictionless for consumers. It's vendors who have to maintain product quality and prevent fraud to avoid returns. It's not Square's job to make sure that a vendor's product is high-quality or that customers really want to keep the products they buy. Credit cards mostly work the same way. https://www.cardfellow.com/blog/credit-card-refund-fees https://www.cardfellow.com/blog/credit-card-refund-fees

peanuty1 4y ago
To be fair, sometimes people return stuff for arbitrary reasons like changing their mind.
- crote 4y ago
  Yes, and that's totally fine. That's part of doing business and stores already take that into account. However, the web shop I work at pays a 3% processing fee on returned payments initiated by us. It just makes no sense.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    I don't know who your current processor is, but if you have any real volume, get off Square/Stripe if that's where you are at. Their rates are awful for volume sellers. Square approached us a few years back and could not comprehend why we weren't jumping at their offered 2.6% + $0.35... "but the AI!?!?" is all their sales people could come up with. We're well below 2% + $0.20 per transaction for all cards (including AMEX, believe it or not). Square/Stripe and the rest are great for being Turn-Key for new businesses. But for anyone with real volume, they are a joke.
arrosenberg 4y ago
Yeah, it's still bullshit. Almost all vendors are going to experience some amount of returns and it costs almost nothing to process it. This is just another form of rent seeking from the credit card processors
Alupis 4y ago
Majority of returns are for BS reasons, regardless of how quality your listings and products are. "Item Defective" - Unopened factory sealed, tamper-proof blister pack. "Not Received In Time" - Delivered 3 days ahead of schedule. "Too Small" - Item clearly says in multiple places, and even demonstrates in images, the item is 2mm in diameter. The result? Everyone pays more for the products so we can support a few bad apples serially returning stuff. This new policy from Square is going to stick merchants with an empty bag for all returns. Which ultimately will make merchants more careful, to avoid getting hosed, ie. raise prices for everyone to support a loss on a returned or cancelled transaction. If a transaction is cancelled, or reversed/refunded - nobody should be making a profit. That includes Square, Visa, etc. This is just an absurd anti-consumer policy that small businesses (the only ones using Square) will get blamed for being greedy over.
- makestuff 4y ago
  Another big one is clothing. Order two sizes and send the one back that doesn't fit.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    Zappos is a prime example of this. Most folks order two or three of the same shoe, and return the ones that did not fit. Zappos has Free Shipping to you, and Free Return Shipping. And... if you price shop the shoes, Zappos is rarely-if-ever the cheapest. You pay for that "service"...
  - ChoGGi 4y ago
    When clothing manufacturers remove an inch or three to make people feel better about themselves, what else can you do?
    - nordsieck 4y ago
      > When clothing manufacturers remove an inch or three to make people feel better about themselves, what else can you do? Is that actually a thing for clothes sized in inches? Or are you referring to the unitless sizing of women's clothes? I do get that unitless sizing is annoying to deal with. But it's apparently popular enough to exist as a thing. For Men's clothes that aren't measured in inches and are instead s/m/l/..., I find those measurement to be shockingly stable across the industry. Although, to be fair, men's clothes are generally meant to fit more loosely than many articles of women's clothes.