4 ms·

I'm not condoning it, just pointing out how society works

by fdgsdfogijq 4y ago

nickpeterson 4y ago
I’d also point out that non-capitalist systems don’t actually correct this problem in practice, they just change the means by which wealth is acquired (usually violence).
- nicoburns 4y ago
  It's ultimately violence in a capitalist society too (what do you think the police are for?). It's certainly possible to achieve a fairer distribution of wealth than capitalist societies produce. And before the inevitable replies: no, I'm not advocating for communism. I'm advocating for non-capitalist variants on market economies.
  - nickpeterson 4y ago
    Sure, all things can be improved, and I know we don’t live in anywhere near a utopia (education, retirement ,healthcare, tort reform, all needed), but I get uncomfortable with the tone that we’re consciously choosing a bad system when the reality is that peacefully refactoring power structures and society is just hard.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    > I'm advocating for non-capitalist variants on market economies. I'm struggling to think of a good example of a current non-capitalist market economy. Do you have one in mind? Or are you advocating for something not yet successfully created?
    - lazyasciiart 4y ago
      Some people argue that social democracy (eg Sweden), as a real welfare state, is distinct from capitalism.
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      As the sibling suggests, somewhere like Sweden is probably closest. But yes, I'm advocating for something not yet successfully created (or even attempted as far as I'm aware).
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        That is interesting, thanks for sharing your viewpoint. In that case, I agree with you, at least insofar as I very much want to see more social democracy in the US than we currently have. But I think it would require the citizens to have a great deal more trust in gov't than we currently have, so not anytime soon.

4 ms·

I'm not condoning it, just pointing out how society works

by fdgsdfogijq 4y ago

I'm not condoning it, just pointing out how society works

nickpeterson 4y ago
I’d also point out that non-capitalist systems don’t actually correct this problem in practice, they just change the means by which wealth is acquired (usually violence).
- nicoburns 4y ago
  It's ultimately violence in a capitalist society too (what do you think the police are for?). It's certainly possible to achieve a fairer distribution of wealth than capitalist societies produce. And before the inevitable replies: no, I'm not advocating for communism. I'm advocating for non-capitalist variants on market economies.
  - nickpeterson 4y ago
    Sure, all things can be improved, and I know we don’t live in anywhere near a utopia (education, retirement ,healthcare, tort reform, all needed), but I get uncomfortable with the tone that we’re consciously choosing a bad system when the reality is that peacefully refactoring power structures and society is just hard.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    > I'm advocating for non-capitalist variants on market economies. I'm struggling to think of a good example of a current non-capitalist market economy. Do you have one in mind? Or are you advocating for something not yet successfully created?
    - lazyasciiart 4y ago
      Some people argue that social democracy (eg Sweden), as a real welfare state, is distinct from capitalism.
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      As the sibling suggests, somewhere like Sweden is probably closest. But yes, I'm advocating for something not yet successfully created (or even attempted as far as I'm aware).
      - rootusrootus 4y ago
        That is interesting, thanks for sharing your viewpoint. In that case, I agree with you, at least insofar as I very much want to see more social democracy in the US than we currently have. But I think it would require the citizens to have a great deal more trust in gov't than we currently have, so not anytime soon.