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That's where I read that! I had forgotten, but of course it was the delightful Bret Devereux. Still, that was just for iron. Steel requires even more energy- h

by mabbo 4y ago

That's where I read that! I had forgotten, but of course it was the delightful Bret Devereux. Still, that was just for iron. Steel requires even more energy- higher heat I believe?

hef19898 4y ago
And better ore. And more of it. It was until the early 20th century, way into the industrial revolution, that iron production outpaced steel production by 9 to 1. Today it is the opposite, with simple iron basically impossible to get.
- cwillu 4y ago
  As I understand it, what we call “mild steel” is simple iron; there is practically no carbon in it. The difference with what we have today is mostly the lack of other impurities: no slag distributed throughout the metal, and no sulfur dissolved in it.
- Maursault 4y ago
  Iron cookware, as opposed to cast iron cookware, is not "basically impossible to get," is composed of iron and contains no alloys.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    What we call cast iron today is also basically just low grade steel. Pure iron, as used 100+ years ago is simply not made anymore. Also, most of the steel used nowadays is recycled, one way or the other.
    - Maursault 4y ago
      > Iron cookware, as opposed to cast iron cookware Did you not see that? Cast iron cookware is not iron cookware. Iron cookware is still available, generally labeled "pure iron" and marketed to impart more iron into the food being cooked than cast iron cookware. Maybe your waving hand should take a rest.
Tuna-Fish 4y ago
It's not just about heat. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. The traditional way to infuse carbon into the metal was to place wrought iron ingots (that is, ones with almost no carbon, too soft for use) into a charcoal fire that was being starved of oxygen, for days. You had to regularly add more charcoal, which both provided the necessary heat and slowly seeped into the metal. As mobility of carbon is very low at low heat, most of the charcoal is wasted as fuel. Around the same time, the Chinese had already figured out the much more efficient process of starting with cast iron (iron saturated with carbon, easy to make but too brittle to use), and heating and working it in a very oxygenated environment, burning out the excess carbon.

by mabbo 4y ago

That's where I read that! I had forgotten, but of course it was the delightful Bret Devereux. Still, that was just for iron. Steel requires even more energy- higher heat I believe?

hef19898 4y ago

And better ore. And more of it. It was until the early 20th century, way into the industrial revolution, that iron production outpaced steel production by 9 to 1. Today it is the opposite, with simple iron basically impossible to get.

cwillu 4y ago
As I understand it, what we call “mild steel” is simple iron; there is practically no carbon in it. The difference with what we have today is mostly the lack of other impurities: no slag distributed throughout the metal, and no sulfur dissolved in it.
Maursault 4y ago
Iron cookware, as opposed to cast iron cookware, is not "basically impossible to get," is composed of iron and contains no alloys.
- hef19898 4y ago
  What we call cast iron today is also basically just low grade steel. Pure iron, as used 100+ years ago is simply not made anymore. Also, most of the steel used nowadays is recycled, one way or the other.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    > Iron cookware, as opposed to cast iron cookware Did you not see that? Cast iron cookware is not iron cookware. Iron cookware is still available, generally labeled "pure iron" and marketed to impart more iron into the food being cooked than cast iron cookware. Maybe your waving hand should take a rest.

Tuna-Fish 4y ago

It's not just about heat. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. The traditional way to infuse carbon into the metal was to place wrought iron ingots (that is, ones with almost no carbon, too soft for use) into a charcoal fire that was being starved of oxygen, for days. You had to regularly add more charcoal, which both provided the necessary heat and slowly seeped into the metal. As mobility of carbon is very low at low heat, most of the charcoal is wasted as fuel. Around the same time, the Chinese had already figured out the much more efficient process of starting with cast iron (iron saturated with carbon, easy to make but too brittle to use), and heating and working it in a very oxygenated environment, burning out the excess carbon.