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I think what they're saying is that some people are Peter Norvig and got lucky, and other people won't get there with any amount of study or practice. He's defi

I think what they're saying is that some people are Peter Norvig and got lucky, and other people won't get there with any amount of study or practice. He's definitely not an average engineer, and as a result most people shouldn't expect to have the same level of ability I had the same thought - read the URL and then said "Oh well that's Peter Norvig he's just weird in a cool way"

some_furry 4y ago
My aspiration as a programmer and security engineer is to one day be regarded as "just weird in a cool way". Until that day comes, I keep working at it.
- e_i_pi_2 4y ago
  That's also how I live my life haha, much less stress about people judging you if you can write it off as "yeah but I'm cool in other ways"
- eointierney 4y ago
  Ha! Love this. Bet you're already weird in a wonderful way :)
celim307 4y ago
I’m conflicted on calling him “lucky”, and I don’t think you mean to discredit him, but yeah he’s had genetic and societal gifts but I’m sure his work ethic is what makes him exceptional
- e_i_pi_2 4y ago
  For a measured response - yes I agree, it's a combo of luck and effort, but the effort can't compensate for the luck. For my true response that probably isn't as popular - he may have an amazing work ethic but that's also just coming from how he was raised, so it's still luck, the same person born in a different environment wouldn't have done the same things - both nature and nurture are external forces
  - LoRaBlood 4y ago
    I don't think his work ethic comes from his upbringing - our parents didn't push us that hard and my work ethic is average. It may come from the fact that he found what he loves to do early in his career, it may come from my Dad's genes (his work ethic was pretty good), or a combo of both
  - navane 4y ago
    If he is halve the genes given to him, halve what his environment has given to him, does he even exist? Do any of us exist?
    - chii 4y ago
      Only if you conflate the meaning of your own existence with the achievements you make.
    - bruce343434 4y ago
      we exist as water in a river
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    Geez, I've been told I have an unfair advantage because I have a predilection for working hard. At what point should people stop making excuses and claiming to be a victim?
    - Frondo 4y ago
      What is the point of this? Who are these people who are making excuses and claiming to be victims -- and victims of what? If there is a grievance you're making, can you elaborate on that?
    - ask_b123 4y ago
      At all points. A predilection for making excuses is a disadvantage so you should excise it from your character/personality.
    - ForHackernews 4y ago
- thewataccount 4y ago
  > I’m conflicted on calling him “lucky”, and I don’t think you mean to discredit him, I don't think saying he was "lucky" is discrediting him - simply because there's many people who got 'lucky' but didn't push themselves to fully capitalize on it the way he did. Basically he's both "lucky" but also extremely driven and uses it to his fullest potential.
  - tejohnso 4y ago
    > Basically he's both "lucky" but also extremely driven and uses it to his fullest potential. Pretty typical for people who are at that level in their field. Terrence Tao and Michael Jordan both immediately come to mind.
- richardlblair 4y ago
  Luck is like 5% of any equation. He had the gift and he was disciplined enough to execute on it. That 5% luck probably got him an extra 10-20% further than anyone else. However, in a room with equally disciplined individuals you wouldn't be able to discern the lucky from the hard working.
  - anthonypasq 4y ago
    the hardworking are lucky to have been born with that personality trait.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > He had the gift and he was disciplined enough to execute on it. What if your excecute in the wrong proffeshion, like you become a stock trader but you could have been a world-class developer? How does one even find out, most peoppe in the world neverbtry programming. Maybe you have a gilf for something that younneverbhad a chance to discover.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  IMHO the proliferation of "lucky" does more harm than good. It's factually correct but bad policy to emphasize it if you want the most people to avoid learned helplessness. Some might be motivated knowing the only thing that separates them from greatness is luck, but more often I saw students feel defeated.
  - sdenton4 4y ago
    It's factually correct that free will is an illusion, but it's best not to say it out loud because people might start acting like it.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      > factually correct that free will is an illusion No it's not, that is only your belief (or as I call it "delusion")
    - JoshCole 4y ago
      It is not factually correct that free will is an illusion. It is just a difficult subject to discuss. Why difficult? Discussion that is considered rational culturally descends from argument techniques rooted in Aristolean ideas about logic. However, as shown by Kurt Gödel formal systems break down under self-reference. Through Turing we see can see this type of thing starting to happen when two Turing Machines need to predict the output of each other. Through John Von Nuemann and Nash we can get a proof of non-determistic policy functions in multi-agent decision problems being optimal. So we find an analogous concept to free will and we find it justified in this abstract domain not on the basis of some wishy washy concept, but on the basis of analogical reasoning (logic) and causal outcome modeling (dynamic functions). So what do we reject to claim it is an illusion? Logic? Or causality?
      - yetihehe 4y ago
        > Why difficult? Because too many people have adverse emotional reactions to such discussions. > Discussion that is considered rational culturally Discussions about free will stop being rational very early. > So we find an analogous concept to free will Ah, this is where the problem starts.
- pasquinelli 4y ago
  > but I’m sure his work ethic is what makes him exceptional why?
- flangola7 4y ago
  Inherent motivational energy is a roll of the genetic/environment die just as much as every other trait like height or engineering intelligence capacity.
- oangemangut 4y ago
  everything in your sentence can be traced back to luck in some way. Genetic gifts I'm sure contribute to work ethic, but also the families, societies, you're born into. The teacher you met in 1st grade that encouraged you to keep trying etc. Luck is in everything IMO
- bloqs 4y ago
  While of course the choice to apply effort and enact effort exists, but being able to successfully do so, and to have he psychological directive to do so effectively, is largely based on personality, which is largely established by age six. (Conscientiousness - OCEAN)
- ookdatnog 4y ago
  You can be lucky and hardworking, and have both of these factors be individually necessary but insufficient contributors to your success. People get weirdly defensive about luck being a major factor in their success, but it always is. It doesn't mean you didn't work hard, it doesn't mean that your decisions didn't contribute to your success. It means that, if you were born a little bit less smart, you would have achieved less. And if you were born in North Korea or medieval Europe in the peasant underclass, you would probably have achieved nothing of note and may have died of the plague before reaching adulthood. I'd estimate that just the sheer luck to be born in a wealthy, free country without debilitating handicaps in the late 20th century or early 21st century already puts you in something like the top 1% lucky people in human history.
  - red1reaper 4y ago
    You can argue that being hardworking is a talent, and as such luck. Not everyone has the force of will to be hardworking some people are naturally lazy and some can put hard work without it feeling like hardwork and others can feel the hard work, but have the will to overcome it, etc. I say that success is 100% luck and of that 100% of luck, some of it can be composed of hardwork, as the ability to perform hard work is in itself, a part of luck.
- cainxinth 4y ago
  Perhaps his epic work ethic is partially the result of a genetic trait and/or the influence of good parenting at an early age… which would be pretty lucky for him.

some_furry 4y ago

My aspiration as a programmer and security engineer is to one day be regarded as "just weird in a cool way". Until that day comes, I keep working at it.

e_i_pi_2 4y ago
That's also how I live my life haha, much less stress about people judging you if you can write it off as "yeah but I'm cool in other ways"
eointierney 4y ago
Ha! Love this. Bet you're already weird in a wonderful way :)

celim307 4y ago

I’m conflicted on calling him “lucky”, and I don’t think you mean to discredit him, but yeah he’s had genetic and societal gifts but I’m sure his work ethic is what makes him exceptional

e_i_pi_2 4y ago
For a measured response - yes I agree, it's a combo of luck and effort, but the effort can't compensate for the luck. For my true response that probably isn't as popular - he may have an amazing work ethic but that's also just coming from how he was raised, so it's still luck, the same person born in a different environment wouldn't have done the same things - both nature and nurture are external forces
- LoRaBlood 4y ago
  I don't think his work ethic comes from his upbringing - our parents didn't push us that hard and my work ethic is average. It may come from the fact that he found what he loves to do early in his career, it may come from my Dad's genes (his work ethic was pretty good), or a combo of both
- navane 4y ago
  If he is halve the genes given to him, halve what his environment has given to him, does he even exist? Do any of us exist?
  - chii 4y ago
    Only if you conflate the meaning of your own existence with the achievements you make.
  - bruce343434 4y ago
    we exist as water in a river
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Geez, I've been told I have an unfair advantage because I have a predilection for working hard. At what point should people stop making excuses and claiming to be a victim?
  - Frondo 4y ago
    What is the point of this? Who are these people who are making excuses and claiming to be victims -- and victims of what? If there is a grievance you're making, can you elaborate on that?
  - ask_b123 4y ago
    At all points. A predilection for making excuses is a disadvantage so you should excise it from your character/personality.
  - ForHackernews 4y ago
thewataccount 4y ago
> I’m conflicted on calling him “lucky”, and I don’t think you mean to discredit him, I don't think saying he was "lucky" is discrediting him - simply because there's many people who got 'lucky' but didn't push themselves to fully capitalize on it the way he did. Basically he's both "lucky" but also extremely driven and uses it to his fullest potential.
- tejohnso 4y ago
  > Basically he's both "lucky" but also extremely driven and uses it to his fullest potential. Pretty typical for people who are at that level in their field. Terrence Tao and Michael Jordan both immediately come to mind.
richardlblair 4y ago
Luck is like 5% of any equation. He had the gift and he was disciplined enough to execute on it. That 5% luck probably got him an extra 10-20% further than anyone else. However, in a room with equally disciplined individuals you wouldn't be able to discern the lucky from the hard working.
- anthonypasq 4y ago
  the hardworking are lucky to have been born with that personality trait.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > He had the gift and he was disciplined enough to execute on it. What if your excecute in the wrong proffeshion, like you become a stock trader but you could have been a world-class developer? How does one even find out, most peoppe in the world neverbtry programming. Maybe you have a gilf for something that younneverbhad a chance to discover.
jvanderbot 4y ago
IMHO the proliferation of "lucky" does more harm than good. It's factually correct but bad policy to emphasize it if you want the most people to avoid learned helplessness. Some might be motivated knowing the only thing that separates them from greatness is luck, but more often I saw students feel defeated.
- sdenton4 4y ago
  It's factually correct that free will is an illusion, but it's best not to say it out loud because people might start acting like it.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    > factually correct that free will is an illusion No it's not, that is only your belief (or as I call it "delusion")
  - JoshCole 4y ago
    It is not factually correct that free will is an illusion. It is just a difficult subject to discuss. Why difficult? Discussion that is considered rational culturally descends from argument techniques rooted in Aristolean ideas about logic. However, as shown by Kurt Gödel formal systems break down under self-reference. Through Turing we see can see this type of thing starting to happen when two Turing Machines need to predict the output of each other. Through John Von Nuemann and Nash we can get a proof of non-determistic policy functions in multi-agent decision problems being optimal. So we find an analogous concept to free will and we find it justified in this abstract domain not on the basis of some wishy washy concept, but on the basis of analogical reasoning (logic) and causal outcome modeling (dynamic functions). So what do we reject to claim it is an illusion? Logic? Or causality?
    - yetihehe 4y ago
      > Why difficult? Because too many people have adverse emotional reactions to such discussions. > Discussion that is considered rational culturally Discussions about free will stop being rational very early. > So we find an analogous concept to free will Ah, this is where the problem starts.
pasquinelli 4y ago
> but I’m sure his work ethic is what makes him exceptional why?
flangola7 4y ago
Inherent motivational energy is a roll of the genetic/environment die just as much as every other trait like height or engineering intelligence capacity.
oangemangut 4y ago
everything in your sentence can be traced back to luck in some way. Genetic gifts I'm sure contribute to work ethic, but also the families, societies, you're born into. The teacher you met in 1st grade that encouraged you to keep trying etc. Luck is in everything IMO
bloqs 4y ago
While of course the choice to apply effort and enact effort exists, but being able to successfully do so, and to have he psychological directive to do so effectively, is largely based on personality, which is largely established by age six. (Conscientiousness - OCEAN)
ookdatnog 4y ago
You can be lucky and hardworking, and have both of these factors be individually necessary but insufficient contributors to your success. People get weirdly defensive about luck being a major factor in their success, but it always is. It doesn't mean you didn't work hard, it doesn't mean that your decisions didn't contribute to your success. It means that, if you were born a little bit less smart, you would have achieved less. And if you were born in North Korea or medieval Europe in the peasant underclass, you would probably have achieved nothing of note and may have died of the plague before reaching adulthood. I'd estimate that just the sheer luck to be born in a wealthy, free country without debilitating handicaps in the late 20th century or early 21st century already puts you in something like the top 1% lucky people in human history.
- red1reaper 4y ago
  You can argue that being hardworking is a talent, and as such luck. Not everyone has the force of will to be hardworking some people are naturally lazy and some can put hard work without it feeling like hardwork and others can feel the hard work, but have the will to overcome it, etc. I say that success is 100% luck and of that 100% of luck, some of it can be composed of hardwork, as the ability to perform hard work is in itself, a part of luck.
cainxinth 4y ago
Perhaps his epic work ethic is partially the result of a genetic trait and/or the influence of good parenting at an early age… which would be pretty lucky for him.