8 ms·

Canada bans TikTok on government devices over security risks

95 points by matbilodeau 4y ago

matbilodeau 4y ago
Quebec ban : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34968699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34968699
robertwt7 4y ago
> Canada has announced it is banning TikTok from all government-issued mobile devices This is only on work phones
- hbn 4y ago
  I don't know if the title was updated but that's exactly what I understood from reading the title as it is now
- pc86 4y ago
  Are there a lot of government-issued personal devices in Canada?
voisin 4y ago
[flagged]
- SECProto 4y ago
  In the HN spirit, what would be the "strongest plausible interpretation" of why a public inquiry might not be the best solution? I can list a few to start: international relations, protection of sources and methods, unnecessary delay in addressing the issue, risking politicizing the apolitical institution of Elections Canada
  - newsclues 4y ago
    None of those balance the harms of loss of trust in government and institutions.
    - SECProto 4y ago
      Personally, I trust the relevant government institutions (Elections Canada, CSIS, etc) to know and address it properly. While more information being released would be good, I don't think a public inquiry is the right format.
      - newsclues 4y ago
        I don't trust to government to police itself behind closed doors. Secrecy is not breeding trust and unity. But please, why isn't a public inquiry the correct format and what is the right format that will balance national security and public trust (just because you trust government, doesn't mean other reasonable people do as well, like me). So please convince me that we shouldn't investigate this in public after the PM tried to dismiss this claiming it was racism.
        SECProto 4y ago
        > But please, why isn't a public inquiry the correct format and what is the right format that will balance national security and public trust I already gave you a list of 4 reasons I think a public inquiry is not the best format. You dismissed them out of hand, and without even providing your own reasons why you think it is the best method. Just because you don't trust the public service, doesn't mean other reasonable people don't, like me :)
- josho 4y ago
  The department that sets employee phone policy is not the same department that would run an investigation on elections.
  - voisin 4y ago
    This isn’t an excuse for not having a coherent policy on our dealings with China. Either they present a threat to our democracy or they don’t. Run an inquiry and band their data harvesting apps, or don’t.
kevincox 4y ago
My bigger question is why was this allowed on government devices in the first place? Shouldn't work phones be for work?
- miroljub 4y ago
  Many companies allow or even encourage using work phones privately. That way, they motivate their employees to not just switch the phone off and leave it on the desk locker in the office after finishing work. This gives them a nice "side effect" of unlimited reachability. That's the reason I actually power off my work phone after hours.
  - mc32 4y ago
    Well, then, this is the perfect pretext to take back your time and not answer after-hours --you exchange convenience and a little money for autonomy and the gov gets its security back.
  - beauzero 4y ago
    Companies and smaller government entities encourage people to BYOD. It's cheaper and gets access to people 24x7.
- thejetset 4y ago
  I would guess the Canadian government employ people to manage social media for various departments. They may use TikTok, both to view content to understand for research or to post in order to promote their services/role/existance. Similarly I might imagine they have Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and other apps which facilitate spreading information.
  - giancarlostoro 4y ago
    At that point I would just buy the cheapest iPad and use it only for that. If you need mobile data, setup a hotspot temporarily.
jt2190 4y ago
> “Effective February 28, 2023, the TikTok application will be removed from government-issued mobile devices. Users of these devices will also be blocked from downloading the application in the future. Following a review of TikTok, the Chief Information Officer of Canada determined that it presents an unacceptable level of risk to privacy and security.” [1] [1] Statement by Minister [The President of the Treasury Board, Mona] Fortier announcing a ban on the use of TikTok on government mobile devices https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/news/2023/02/statement-by-minister-fortier-announcing-a-ban-on-the-use-of-tiktok-on-government-mobile-devices.html https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/news/202...
raesene9 4y ago
So, I completely understand that gov's are concerned about an application on gov. devices being used to profile their staff. There's been plenty written about profiling people based on app. usage. The bit that somewhat surprises me is the focus on TikTok, other apps are (AFAIK) capable of the exact same thing. Is the expectation that TikTok is the only app that the Chinese government have access to? this seems a bit unlikely. And of course this doesn't touch on the companies that provide ad networks and other services to mobile applications, who have the ability to pull info from multiple apps at the same time, I've not seen any movement on banning those similarly.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Likely because of a combination of factors: install base + privacy concerns + governance concerns Missing one of those factors would make something much less of a threat in practice
- bitcurious 4y ago
  If you’re on TikTok, you’re by default granting camera, microphone, and location permissions. If you’re addicted to TikTok you’re probably opening it up every time you have a few minutes to kill, including in government offices and etc.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    No you're not, what? Is this some Android nonsense because I can just deny all of that on iOS. It doesn't even have the option of requesting location permission. If you want to make a Tiktok then yeah it's gonna need the camera and mic but outside of that it has never once triggered the mic or camera indicator while not taking a video.
    - TheFragenTaken 4y ago
      It's not Android nonsense, it's just nonsense. If you don't post, TikTok requires zero permissions. Further, they only collect data related to how you use the app as per their privacy policy: https://www.tiktok.com/legal/page/eea/privacy-policy/en https://www.tiktok.com/legal/page/eea/privacy-policy/en.
allengeorge 4y ago
It’s to distract from the government’s unwillingness to hold a public inquiry into China’s election meddling.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  It's all rather hilarious. The tiktok story is the 2nd headline on Google news for me. The first being something insane about a CCP official, CSIS, and a fat donation the PM's charity fund??
- SECProto 4y ago
  Yes, I'm sure that's why the European commission did the same [1] a few days ago, why the US House is debating it now [2], and a number of other govt's have been considering it in the last month or two.. [1] https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/02/23/european-commission-bans-its-staff-from-using-tiktok-over-china-cybersecurity-concerns https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/02/23/european-commi... [2] https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3876321-tiktok-ban-makes-progress-toward-president/ https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3876321-tiktok-ban-mak... [3] https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3845729-texas-governor-unveils-plan-for-statewide-tiktok-ban/ https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3845729-texas-governor... https://statescoop.com/florida-tiktok-ban-desantis-digital-rights-china/ https://statescoop.com/florida-tiktok-ban-desantis-digital-r...
  - mistermann 4y ago
    Interesting how they all realized this thread at more or less the same time considering how long TikTok been out. "Influencing our democracy" has also been trending heavily.
amelius 4y ago
Makes sense also from a productivity perspective. TikTok on your work phone is like having a TV set in your office.
- jfk13 4y ago
  Or a bit like having HN on your development computer? (brb, just need to start another build...)
- Spivak 4y ago
  Y'all are weird, my team does have a TV in our pod. It's fine. We watch Twitch, one of my coworkers is really into F1 so we have races on, we've had march madness running, sometimes we put on a lo-fi stream. When you want to be productive outside of work do you still put on the horse blinders? You must be exhausted every day after work from 8hrs of straight forced focus.
Workaccount2 4y ago
Tiktok should just be banned outright. I don't know why anyone would trust an algorithm controlled by the CCP, and I don't know why western governments tolerate it.
- snehk 4y ago
  Facebook, Instagram and Twitter as well. American three letter agencies have access to their data (revealed by Edward Snowden) and the US kills people based on this data[1]. [1] http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/ex-nsa-chief-we-kill-people-based-on-metadata http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/ex-nsa-chief-w...
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    No, that's a separate issue unrelated to this one. If biden wants to show you pictures of seahorses on instagram, there really is no practical way to do it. If Xi wants to show you seahorses on tiktok, you'll be seeing them tomorrow. Its a completely different situation, it bothers me that people try so hard to muddy the waters with whataboutism.
    - washadjeffmad 4y ago
      What if an administration didn't want to show us pictures of seahorses, but, say, no anti-war opinions? How hard would they have to try to ensure we all saw stories of our valiant friends and allies in need of our aid against a ruthless, despicable enemy? How difficult would it be to prevent, suppress, or undermine journalistic scrutiny of a contentious military conflict? Do we already know?
fattless 4y ago
My state did the same recently, my university blocks tiktok traffic on any divice connected to the school wifi now. Kind of came out of nowhere for me, I heard about the security concerns but didnt think they were being taken that seriously.
calltrak 4y ago
[dead]
jwally 4y ago
Dumb question as a non expert, but if I'm trying to prevent bad thing from happening on my employees phones, why am I blacklisting "bad" apps instead of whitelisting "good" apps?
Tiktaalik 4y ago
If the government is concerned about privacy and security risks here I dunno maybe they should pass some legislation that applies to all apps???? This is literally their job.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaway67743 4y ago
I don't understand why they're allowed to have any non essential apps, it's as mad as the UK doing national security over zoom and WhatsApp - government devices should be non-stock, vetted and secured devices, with proper MDM. Is every government really this incompetent??

95 points by matbilodeau 4y ago

matbilodeau 4y ago

Quebec ban : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34968699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34968699

robertwt7 4y ago

> Canada has announced it is banning TikTok from all government-issued mobile devices This is only on work phones

hbn 4y ago
I don't know if the title was updated but that's exactly what I understood from reading the title as it is now
pc86 4y ago
Are there a lot of government-issued personal devices in Canada?

voisin 4y ago

[flagged]

SECProto 4y ago
In the HN spirit, what would be the "strongest plausible interpretation" of why a public inquiry might not be the best solution? I can list a few to start: international relations, protection of sources and methods, unnecessary delay in addressing the issue, risking politicizing the apolitical institution of Elections Canada
- newsclues 4y ago
  None of those balance the harms of loss of trust in government and institutions.
  - SECProto 4y ago
    Personally, I trust the relevant government institutions (Elections Canada, CSIS, etc) to know and address it properly. While more information being released would be good, I don't think a public inquiry is the right format.
    - newsclues 4y ago
      I don't trust to government to police itself behind closed doors. Secrecy is not breeding trust and unity. But please, why isn't a public inquiry the correct format and what is the right format that will balance national security and public trust (just because you trust government, doesn't mean other reasonable people do as well, like me). So please convince me that we shouldn't investigate this in public after the PM tried to dismiss this claiming it was racism.
      - SECProto 4y ago
        > But please, why isn't a public inquiry the correct format and what is the right format that will balance national security and public trust I already gave you a list of 4 reasons I think a public inquiry is not the best format. You dismissed them out of hand, and without even providing your own reasons why you think it is the best method. Just because you don't trust the public service, doesn't mean other reasonable people don't, like me :)
josho 4y ago
The department that sets employee phone policy is not the same department that would run an investigation on elections.
- voisin 4y ago
  This isn’t an excuse for not having a coherent policy on our dealings with China. Either they present a threat to our democracy or they don’t. Run an inquiry and band their data harvesting apps, or don’t.

kevincox 4y ago

My bigger question is why was this allowed on government devices in the first place? Shouldn't work phones be for work?

miroljub 4y ago
Many companies allow or even encourage using work phones privately. That way, they motivate their employees to not just switch the phone off and leave it on the desk locker in the office after finishing work. This gives them a nice "side effect" of unlimited reachability. That's the reason I actually power off my work phone after hours.
- mc32 4y ago
  Well, then, this is the perfect pretext to take back your time and not answer after-hours --you exchange convenience and a little money for autonomy and the gov gets its security back.
- beauzero 4y ago
  Companies and smaller government entities encourage people to BYOD. It's cheaper and gets access to people 24x7.
thejetset 4y ago
I would guess the Canadian government employ people to manage social media for various departments. They may use TikTok, both to view content to understand for research or to post in order to promote their services/role/existance. Similarly I might imagine they have Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and other apps which facilitate spreading information.
- giancarlostoro 4y ago
  At that point I would just buy the cheapest iPad and use it only for that. If you need mobile data, setup a hotspot temporarily.

jt2190 4y ago

> “Effective February 28, 2023, the TikTok application will be removed from government-issued mobile devices. Users of these devices will also be blocked from downloading the application in the future. Following a review of TikTok, the Chief Information Officer of Canada determined that it presents an unacceptable level of risk to privacy and security.” [1] [1] Statement by Minister [The President of the Treasury Board, Mona] Fortier announcing a ban on the use of TikTok on government mobile devices https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/news/2023/02/statement-by-minister-fortier-announcing-a-ban-on-the-use-of-tiktok-on-government-mobile-devices.html https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/news/202...

raesene9 4y ago

So, I completely understand that gov's are concerned about an application on gov. devices being used to profile their staff. There's been plenty written about profiling people based on app. usage. The bit that somewhat surprises me is the focus on TikTok, other apps are (AFAIK) capable of the exact same thing. Is the expectation that TikTok is the only app that the Chinese government have access to? this seems a bit unlikely. And of course this doesn't touch on the companies that provide ad networks and other services to mobile applications, who have the ability to pull info from multiple apps at the same time, I've not seen any movement on banning those similarly.

kube-system 4y ago
Likely because of a combination of factors: install base + privacy concerns + governance concerns Missing one of those factors would make something much less of a threat in practice
bitcurious 4y ago
If you’re on TikTok, you’re by default granting camera, microphone, and location permissions. If you’re addicted to TikTok you’re probably opening it up every time you have a few minutes to kill, including in government offices and etc.
- Spivak 4y ago
  No you're not, what? Is this some Android nonsense because I can just deny all of that on iOS. It doesn't even have the option of requesting location permission. If you want to make a Tiktok then yeah it's gonna need the camera and mic but outside of that it has never once triggered the mic or camera indicator while not taking a video.
  - TheFragenTaken 4y ago
    It's not Android nonsense, it's just nonsense. If you don't post, TikTok requires zero permissions. Further, they only collect data related to how you use the app as per their privacy policy: https://www.tiktok.com/legal/page/eea/privacy-policy/en https://www.tiktok.com/legal/page/eea/privacy-policy/en.

allengeorge 4y ago

It’s to distract from the government’s unwillingness to hold a public inquiry into China’s election meddling.

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
It's all rather hilarious. The tiktok story is the 2nd headline on Google news for me. The first being something insane about a CCP official, CSIS, and a fat donation the PM's charity fund??
SECProto 4y ago
Yes, I'm sure that's why the European commission did the same [1] a few days ago, why the US House is debating it now [2], and a number of other govt's have been considering it in the last month or two.. [1] https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/02/23/european-commission-bans-its-staff-from-using-tiktok-over-china-cybersecurity-concerns https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/02/23/european-commi... [2] https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3876321-tiktok-ban-makes-progress-toward-president/ https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3876321-tiktok-ban-mak... [3] https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3845729-texas-governor-unveils-plan-for-statewide-tiktok-ban/ https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3845729-texas-governor... https://statescoop.com/florida-tiktok-ban-desantis-digital-rights-china/ https://statescoop.com/florida-tiktok-ban-desantis-digital-r...
- mistermann 4y ago
  Interesting how they all realized this thread at more or less the same time considering how long TikTok been out. "Influencing our democracy" has also been trending heavily.

amelius 4y ago

Makes sense also from a productivity perspective. TikTok on your work phone is like having a TV set in your office.

jfk13 4y ago
Or a bit like having HN on your development computer? (brb, just need to start another build...)
Spivak 4y ago
Y'all are weird, my team does have a TV in our pod. It's fine. We watch Twitch, one of my coworkers is really into F1 so we have races on, we've had march madness running, sometimes we put on a lo-fi stream. When you want to be productive outside of work do you still put on the horse blinders? You must be exhausted every day after work from 8hrs of straight forced focus.

Workaccount2 4y ago

Tiktok should just be banned outright. I don't know why anyone would trust an algorithm controlled by the CCP, and I don't know why western governments tolerate it.

snehk 4y ago
Facebook, Instagram and Twitter as well. American three letter agencies have access to their data (revealed by Edward Snowden) and the US kills people based on this data[1]. [1] http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/ex-nsa-chief-we-kill-people-based-on-metadata http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/ex-nsa-chief-w...
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  No, that's a separate issue unrelated to this one. If biden wants to show you pictures of seahorses on instagram, there really is no practical way to do it. If Xi wants to show you seahorses on tiktok, you'll be seeing them tomorrow. Its a completely different situation, it bothers me that people try so hard to muddy the waters with whataboutism.
  - washadjeffmad 4y ago
    What if an administration didn't want to show us pictures of seahorses, but, say, no anti-war opinions? How hard would they have to try to ensure we all saw stories of our valiant friends and allies in need of our aid against a ruthless, despicable enemy? How difficult would it be to prevent, suppress, or undermine journalistic scrutiny of a contentious military conflict? Do we already know?

fattless 4y ago

My state did the same recently, my university blocks tiktok traffic on any divice connected to the school wifi now. Kind of came out of nowhere for me, I heard about the security concerns but didnt think they were being taken that seriously.

calltrak 4y ago

[dead]

jwally 4y ago

Dumb question as a non expert, but if I'm trying to prevent bad thing from happening on my employees phones, why am I blacklisting "bad" apps instead of whitelisting "good" apps?

Tiktaalik 4y ago

If the government is concerned about privacy and security risks here I dunno maybe they should pass some legislation that applies to all apps???? This is literally their job.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwaway67743 4y ago

I don't understand why they're allowed to have any non essential apps, it's as mad as the UK doing national security over zoom and WhatsApp - government devices should be non-stock, vetted and secured devices, with proper MDM. Is every government really this incompetent??