6 ms·

I mean, Iran's leadership have literally and publicly called for Israel to be wiped off the map. Several times. I don't think it's an overreaction to at least

by llimos 4y ago

I mean, Iran's leadership have literally and publicly called for Israel to be wiped off the map. Several times. I don't think it's an overreaction to at least consider the possibility that they might mean what they say.

RobotToaster 4y ago
Except that they never said that, because there's no such idiom in Persian.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bhouston 4y ago
  Here is what I found on this claim: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-a...
- amanj41 4y ago
  I have no knowledge of the timeline here so don't know the facts but in any context this is a silly retort.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    But how else will we tally the points at the end of this debate session? /s
- kps 4y ago
  “Wiped off the map” was the English translation by the government-run IRIB of Ahmadinejad's famous speech. https://web.archive.org/web/20070708083524/http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247 https://web.archive.org/web/20070708083524/http://www.iribne...
- 0xDEF 4y ago
  The Iranian government is very open about its goal to destroy Israel. However they also make sure to point out that "destroying Israel" does not mean "kill all Jews".
  - llimos 4y ago
    There are Jews living in Iran, who are on the whole well-treated. It's not relevant to the discussion though. We're talking about "Israel" defending itself, not "the Jews".
    - pazimzadeh 4y ago
      Except that Israel uses religious reasons to explain why they have a right to the land: https://mondoweiss.net/2020/07/we-have-biblical-rights-to-the-land-the-bible-is-our-deed-israeli-ambassador-explains-why-west-bank-belongs-to-israel/ https://mondoweiss.net/2020/07/we-have-biblical-rights-to-th...
    - weatherlite 4y ago
      > There are Jews living in Iran, who are on the whole well-treated There are women living in Iran, who are on the whole well-treated /s
- thrwtsmwhr604g3 4y ago
  What?! This is nonsense! My mother tounge is Persian and I have lost count how many time I have heard this in TV, public places, etc. Oh boi, I have a treat for you. There are billboards in famous public squares or places in Iran which even have countdown until destruction of Israel! Here is one from a semi-official news agency that has ties with IRGC! The article is from a few years ago, but you can still find these billboards throughout the cities! Title of the news article: "Countdown of destruction of Zionist regime in Palestine" On the billboard: "Remaining until destruction of Israel" https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1396/05/10/1480680/روز-شمار-نابودی-رژیم-صهیونیستی-در-فلسطین-عکس https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1396/05/10/1480680/روز-شم... This one is installed in the center of Tehran, the capital! Edited to fix the style
brettermeier 4y ago
I mean, Israels leadership have literally said once to drown all palestinians in the sea would be a good idea. There are always two sides minimum...
- rcme 4y ago
  That seems to reinforce the idea that Israel should be worried about Iran. "Iran said they want to destroy Israel. Israel should be worried." To which you reply: "Well, there are two sides. Israel said they want to drown Palestine." So now let's ask a follow up question: Israel said they want to drown Palestine, should Palestine worry about Israel?
  - brettermeier 4y ago
    Sure, if this continues, both sides should be concerned. I just wanted to point out that I don't believe that one side is the lone aggressor and the other side is completely innocent.
- edanm 4y ago
  Firstly, Palestine is not Iran. Secondly, saying "Israel's leadership" said they want to drown Palestinians is a pretty ridiculous claim. Who said it exactly? When? Are they currently Israel's leadership? Cause Israel is a democracy with many officials. Without something more specific, even if this is a real thing, it's like pointing to US congresspeople from the 1950s saying "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" and using that to "prove" that Obama is actually racist. Whereas Iranian leadership is a dictatorship and the same people claiming they would like to kill all Israelis are the people in power now.
  - brettermeier 4y ago
    It was Lieberman, one source: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/02/israeli-and-palestinian-textbooks-researchers-have-conducted-a-comprehensive-study-that-reveals-that-both-sides-are-guilty-of-distorting-the-truth-in-the-classroom.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/02/israeli-and-pale... And there are debates about the state of Israels democracy: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/democracy-means-judicial-autonomy-german-envoy-says-israel-overhaul-2023-02-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/democracy-means-ju...
bhouston 4y ago
I replied further down, but according to this fact check by WP this isn't true: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-a... But I am not sure if this discussion thread is intended to be factual or not.
- 0xDEF 4y ago
  >but according to this fact check by WP this isn't true You posted a link from 2011 about Ahmedinejad being mistranslated but there are plenty of other times the Iranian authorities have called for the destruction of Israel.
- llimos 4y ago
  How's this? https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/1018803983543078912 https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/1018803983543078912 https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1262782215756361730 https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1262782215756361730 The "final solution" when talking about Jews... hmmm, what could they possibly mean?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    That's garden-variety anti-Semitism. Not a credible threat by a head of state.
    - llimos 4y ago
      "will witness the day when the fabricated Zionist regime will be eradicated", posted by the head of state of a country that is pursuing nuclear weapons. All I said in my original comment was that it's not an overreaction to at least consider the possibility that they might mean what they say. Is it so obvious to you that there's literally nothing to worry about?
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
yongjik 4y ago
The USA once grouped Iran in the "Axis of Evil," including North Korea and Iraq. And then Iraq got invaded based on made-up evidences, its leader was executed, and nobody in the US faced any legal consequences for those made-up evidences. What do you expect the Iranian government to do.
- mft_ 4y ago
  None of that has anything to do with Israel? (Which is what the post you replied to was talking about…)
  - yongjik 4y ago
    I'm just saying, if "the other country made threatening remarks" is a basis for justifying things, then it will justify a whole lot of things, including stuff Israel would not appreciate at all.
- weatherlite 4y ago
  I expect them to invest everything they have in trying to destroy Israel, support militias in the middle east and also very brutally kill/imprison any Iranian citizen who doesn't want to live under their religious theocracy /s
- oytis 4y ago
  Stop being evil? Resign, retreat into a distant village, and let Iran become a peaceful democratic country. Just one idea.
pazimzadeh 4y ago
The translation for that is questionable https://archive.nytimes.com/thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/israeli-minister-agrees-ahmadinejad-never-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/ https://archive.nytimes.com/thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0... Unlike John McCain singing "bomb bomb Iran" during his 2008 campaign https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7s5pT3Rris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7s5pT3Rris Iran has also never shot down a US passenger flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
- areyousure 4y ago
  On 8 January 2020, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (of Iran) shot down an American-manufactured plane flown by the flag carrier of Ukraine, carrying a bunch of Iranian Canadians (dual citizens). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines...
  - nl 4y ago
    Shooting down an "American-manufactured" plane is not the same thing as shooting down "an American plane".
  - pazimzadeh 4y ago
    5 days after Trump killed Suleimani, who led the Quds within the IRGC, which was only labelled as a terrorist organization one year prior.
- weatherlite 4y ago
  https://www.timesofisrael.com/irans-doomsday-clock-for-israels-end-halts-amid-power-cuts/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/irans-doomsday-clock-for-israe... "Public timer, which is set to mark destruction of Jewish state in 2040 as predicted by Khamenei..." I don't know how Iranian leadership can make it any clearer they want Israel gone? What more should they say or do?
  - ashwagary 4y ago

by llimos 4y ago

RobotToaster 4y ago

Except that they never said that, because there's no such idiom in Persian.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bhouston 4y ago
Here is what I found on this claim: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-a...
amanj41 4y ago
I have no knowledge of the timeline here so don't know the facts but in any context this is a silly retort.
- uoaei 4y ago
  But how else will we tally the points at the end of this debate session? /s
kps 4y ago
“Wiped off the map” was the English translation by the government-run IRIB of Ahmadinejad's famous speech. https://web.archive.org/web/20070708083524/http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247 https://web.archive.org/web/20070708083524/http://www.iribne...
0xDEF 4y ago
The Iranian government is very open about its goal to destroy Israel. However they also make sure to point out that "destroying Israel" does not mean "kill all Jews".
- llimos 4y ago
  There are Jews living in Iran, who are on the whole well-treated. It's not relevant to the discussion though. We're talking about "Israel" defending itself, not "the Jews".
  - pazimzadeh 4y ago
    Except that Israel uses religious reasons to explain why they have a right to the land: https://mondoweiss.net/2020/07/we-have-biblical-rights-to-the-land-the-bible-is-our-deed-israeli-ambassador-explains-why-west-bank-belongs-to-israel/ https://mondoweiss.net/2020/07/we-have-biblical-rights-to-th...
  - weatherlite 4y ago
    > There are Jews living in Iran, who are on the whole well-treated There are women living in Iran, who are on the whole well-treated /s
thrwtsmwhr604g3 4y ago
What?! This is nonsense! My mother tounge is Persian and I have lost count how many time I have heard this in TV, public places, etc. Oh boi, I have a treat for you. There are billboards in famous public squares or places in Iran which even have countdown until destruction of Israel! Here is one from a semi-official news agency that has ties with IRGC! The article is from a few years ago, but you can still find these billboards throughout the cities! Title of the news article: "Countdown of destruction of Zionist regime in Palestine" On the billboard: "Remaining until destruction of Israel" https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1396/05/10/1480680/روز-شمار-نابودی-رژیم-صهیونیستی-در-فلسطین-عکس https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1396/05/10/1480680/روز-شم... This one is installed in the center of Tehran, the capital! Edited to fix the style

brettermeier 4y ago

I mean, Israels leadership have literally said once to drown all palestinians in the sea would be a good idea. There are always two sides minimum...

rcme 4y ago
That seems to reinforce the idea that Israel should be worried about Iran. "Iran said they want to destroy Israel. Israel should be worried." To which you reply: "Well, there are two sides. Israel said they want to drown Palestine." So now let's ask a follow up question: Israel said they want to drown Palestine, should Palestine worry about Israel?
- brettermeier 4y ago
  Sure, if this continues, both sides should be concerned. I just wanted to point out that I don't believe that one side is the lone aggressor and the other side is completely innocent.
edanm 4y ago
Firstly, Palestine is not Iran. Secondly, saying "Israel's leadership" said they want to drown Palestinians is a pretty ridiculous claim. Who said it exactly? When? Are they currently Israel's leadership? Cause Israel is a democracy with many officials. Without something more specific, even if this is a real thing, it's like pointing to US congresspeople from the 1950s saying "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" and using that to "prove" that Obama is actually racist. Whereas Iranian leadership is a dictatorship and the same people claiming they would like to kill all Israelis are the people in power now.
- brettermeier 4y ago
  It was Lieberman, one source: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/02/israeli-and-palestinian-textbooks-researchers-have-conducted-a-comprehensive-study-that-reveals-that-both-sides-are-guilty-of-distorting-the-truth-in-the-classroom.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/02/israeli-and-pale... And there are debates about the state of Israels democracy: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/democracy-means-judicial-autonomy-german-envoy-says-israel-overhaul-2023-02-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/democracy-means-ju...

bhouston 4y ago

I replied further down, but according to this fact check by WP this isn't true: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-a... But I am not sure if this discussion thread is intended to be factual or not.

0xDEF 4y ago
>but according to this fact check by WP this isn't true You posted a link from 2011 about Ahmedinejad being mistranslated but there are plenty of other times the Iranian authorities have called for the destruction of Israel.
llimos 4y ago
How's this? https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/1018803983543078912 https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/1018803983543078912 https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1262782215756361730 https://twitter.com/JasonMBrodsky/status/1262782215756361730 The "final solution" when talking about Jews... hmmm, what could they possibly mean?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  That's garden-variety anti-Semitism. Not a credible threat by a head of state.
  - llimos 4y ago
    "will witness the day when the fabricated Zionist regime will be eradicated", posted by the head of state of a country that is pursuing nuclear weapons. All I said in my original comment was that it's not an overreaction to at least consider the possibility that they might mean what they say. Is it so obvious to you that there's literally nothing to worry about?
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago

yongjik 4y ago

The USA once grouped Iran in the "Axis of Evil," including North Korea and Iraq. And then Iraq got invaded based on made-up evidences, its leader was executed, and nobody in the US faced any legal consequences for those made-up evidences. What do you expect the Iranian government to do.

mft_ 4y ago
None of that has anything to do with Israel? (Which is what the post you replied to was talking about…)
- yongjik 4y ago
  I'm just saying, if "the other country made threatening remarks" is a basis for justifying things, then it will justify a whole lot of things, including stuff Israel would not appreciate at all.
weatherlite 4y ago
I expect them to invest everything they have in trying to destroy Israel, support militias in the middle east and also very brutally kill/imprison any Iranian citizen who doesn't want to live under their religious theocracy /s
oytis 4y ago
Stop being evil? Resign, retreat into a distant village, and let Iran become a peaceful democratic country. Just one idea.

pazimzadeh 4y ago

The translation for that is questionable https://archive.nytimes.com/thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/israeli-minister-agrees-ahmadinejad-never-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/ https://archive.nytimes.com/thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0... Unlike John McCain singing "bomb bomb Iran" during his 2008 campaign https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7s5pT3Rris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7s5pT3Rris Iran has also never shot down a US passenger flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

areyousure 4y ago
On 8 January 2020, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (of Iran) shot down an American-manufactured plane flown by the flag carrier of Ukraine, carrying a bunch of Iranian Canadians (dual citizens). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines...
- nl 4y ago
  Shooting down an "American-manufactured" plane is not the same thing as shooting down "an American plane".
- pazimzadeh 4y ago
  5 days after Trump killed Suleimani, who led the Quds within the IRGC, which was only labelled as a terrorist organization one year prior.
weatherlite 4y ago
https://www.timesofisrael.com/irans-doomsday-clock-for-israels-end-halts-amid-power-cuts/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/irans-doomsday-clock-for-israe... "Public timer, which is set to mark destruction of Jewish state in 2040 as predicted by Khamenei..." I don't know how Iranian leadership can make it any clearer they want Israel gone? What more should they say or do?
- ashwagary 4y ago