5 ms·

Lots of "well this is obvious" comments here, but this finding strikes me as a new (haven't seen before) key driver of the global testosterone crisis to which n

Lots of "well this is obvious" comments here, but this finding strikes me as a new (haven't seen before) key driver of the global testosterone crisis to which no one has been able to tie a specific cause

totemandtoken 4y ago
I have a friend who puts the blame entirely on microplastics because its been shown microplastics upregulate estrogen (or something to that effect). Is this accurate? No idea, not a biologist.
- hammock 4y ago
  That is not accurate. The book of science on the human harm caused by microplastics is thin and still new. There is lots of science on specific plastic chemicals and their estrogenic effects - phthalates is the largest category although there are several - but the classification of "microplastics" is orthogonal to the type of plastic involved Edit: downvotes why
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    >Edit: downvotes why People hate nuance because it doesn't wholly confirm their beliefs
  - kelipso 4y ago
    How are "specific plastic chemicals" or "phthalates" orthogonal to "microplastics". They are a subset of microplastics, so of course they cannot be orthogonal. Are you saying phthalates are not microplastics? It feel likes you are obfuscating the problem by using debate tricks or something and then calling it nuance.
    - hammock 4y ago
      > They are a subset of microplastics Are they? Not trying to be difficult. Micro plastics are just tiny particles that break off of macroscopic plastic objects. They can be made of any kind of plastic. And phthalates are found in macroscopic plastic objects. Hence, orthogonal
      - kelipso 4y ago
        How can you possibly say that? Phthalates break off into tiny particles and become microplastics...how is not completely straightforward? Phthalates are definitely found in microplastics, that's just a fact.
pell 4y ago
Is there any large scale proof of this testosterone crisis? When I looked into it I found a lot of theories and assumptions but no real evidence for it.
- ziml77 4y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if testosterone production was lower due to various changes in environment and society, but assuming it's true I don't understand what would make it a crisis.
  - icare_1er 4y ago
    Maybe because ultimately that means the extinction of the human race ? Dude, not all humans hate themselves to the point of wanting to disappear.
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    Because testosterone affects fertility, which is very important.
    - ziml77 4y ago
      Are people who want to have children having significantly more trouble producing them?
      - pixl97 4y ago
        If you're fishing out of a lake and you notice you're catching the fish faster than they are being replaced you may want to note this and keep an eye on what's going on. Especially when fish are your only food source.
      - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
        Yes.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  You didn't look far enough. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081788/#:~:text=There%20has%20been%20a%20decline,adult%20men%20in%20recent%20decades https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081788/#:~:text=There%20ha....
algoatecorn 4y ago
I don't believe there is a specific cause because there will always be several, measurable, causal factors. But if are going to zoom way out and pick one thing, it's body weight. Increased physical activity is going to increase free Test and reduce the likelihood of being overweight.
- nradov 4y ago
  Causality is complex here. Obesity reduces testosterone levels, but low-T also causes adipose tissue growth in a positive feedback loop. That's one of the reasons why some obese people have so much trouble losing weight. Exposure to endocrine disruptor chemicals such as pthalates is also proven to reduce testosterone levels.
lm28469 4y ago
There are a lot of obvious things but it looks like the majority of people don't care. Obesity, diabetes, lack of exercise, it kills more than anything in the west yet we address things like car safety with more urgency
- 29083011397778 4y ago
  > yet we address things like car safety with more urgency And even then we only focus on the people inside the car.
  - nradov 4y ago
    IIHS car safety ratings now include pedestrian collision prevention. https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/acura/integra-4-door-sedan/2023#front-crash-prevention-vehicle-to-pedestrian-day https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/acura/integra-4-door-se...
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  I don't think a majority of people don't care. The causes of obesity and how to un-obese people sustainably and over the long term is still not entirely known. We can cut someone's stomach to a fraction of its size, and the fat person still regains weight after 10 years. The best weight loss drugs that are being researched are actually hormone-based, not fullness-based or some other signaling. There's something fucky going on with the way obesity occurs that doesn't appear to have much to do with how much a fat person "cares" (and in fact, caring too much in the wrong way actually makes it worse-- internalizing fat shaming narratives tends to fatten people regardless of their weight!). I also think lack of exercise isn't a care thing. The US literally works more hours than other first world countries-- who has the time to hit the gym or go for runs?
- nradov 4y ago
  It was so weird watching public health messaging during the COVID-19 pandemic. Based on early reports out of China we knew from the beginning that obesity was a key risk factor for severe cases, and yet they hardly mentioned the importance of losing weight. Instead they wasted a lot of effort on other non-pharmaceutical interventions such as face masks, which had never been proven to have any significant benefit for the general public. https://doi.org/10.14740/cr1118 https://doi.org/10.14740/cr1118 https://doi.org/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6 https://doi.org/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6

totemandtoken 4y ago

I have a friend who puts the blame entirely on microplastics because its been shown microplastics upregulate estrogen (or something to that effect). Is this accurate? No idea, not a biologist.

hammock 4y ago
That is not accurate. The book of science on the human harm caused by microplastics is thin and still new. There is lots of science on specific plastic chemicals and their estrogenic effects - phthalates is the largest category although there are several - but the classification of "microplastics" is orthogonal to the type of plastic involved Edit: downvotes why
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  >Edit: downvotes why People hate nuance because it doesn't wholly confirm their beliefs
- kelipso 4y ago
  How are "specific plastic chemicals" or "phthalates" orthogonal to "microplastics". They are a subset of microplastics, so of course they cannot be orthogonal. Are you saying phthalates are not microplastics? It feel likes you are obfuscating the problem by using debate tricks or something and then calling it nuance.
  - hammock 4y ago
    > They are a subset of microplastics Are they? Not trying to be difficult. Micro plastics are just tiny particles that break off of macroscopic plastic objects. They can be made of any kind of plastic. And phthalates are found in macroscopic plastic objects. Hence, orthogonal
    - kelipso 4y ago
      How can you possibly say that? Phthalates break off into tiny particles and become microplastics...how is not completely straightforward? Phthalates are definitely found in microplastics, that's just a fact.

pell 4y ago

Is there any large scale proof of this testosterone crisis? When I looked into it I found a lot of theories and assumptions but no real evidence for it.

ziml77 4y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if testosterone production was lower due to various changes in environment and society, but assuming it's true I don't understand what would make it a crisis.
- icare_1er 4y ago
  Maybe because ultimately that means the extinction of the human race ? Dude, not all humans hate themselves to the point of wanting to disappear.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  Because testosterone affects fertility, which is very important.
  - ziml77 4y ago
    Are people who want to have children having significantly more trouble producing them?
    - pixl97 4y ago
      If you're fishing out of a lake and you notice you're catching the fish faster than they are being replaced you may want to note this and keep an eye on what's going on. Especially when fish are your only food source.
    - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
      Yes.
jvanderbot 4y ago
You didn't look far enough. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081788/#:~:text=There%20has%20been%20a%20decline,adult%20men%20in%20recent%20decades https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32081788/#:~:text=There%20ha....

algoatecorn 4y ago

I don't believe there is a specific cause because there will always be several, measurable, causal factors. But if are going to zoom way out and pick one thing, it's body weight. Increased physical activity is going to increase free Test and reduce the likelihood of being overweight.

nradov 4y ago
Causality is complex here. Obesity reduces testosterone levels, but low-T also causes adipose tissue growth in a positive feedback loop. That's one of the reasons why some obese people have so much trouble losing weight. Exposure to endocrine disruptor chemicals such as pthalates is also proven to reduce testosterone levels.

lm28469 4y ago

There are a lot of obvious things but it looks like the majority of people don't care. Obesity, diabetes, lack of exercise, it kills more than anything in the west yet we address things like car safety with more urgency

29083011397778 4y ago
> yet we address things like car safety with more urgency And even then we only focus on the people inside the car.
- nradov 4y ago
  IIHS car safety ratings now include pedestrian collision prevention. https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/acura/integra-4-door-sedan/2023#front-crash-prevention-vehicle-to-pedestrian-day https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/acura/integra-4-door-se...
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
I don't think a majority of people don't care. The causes of obesity and how to un-obese people sustainably and over the long term is still not entirely known. We can cut someone's stomach to a fraction of its size, and the fat person still regains weight after 10 years. The best weight loss drugs that are being researched are actually hormone-based, not fullness-based or some other signaling. There's something fucky going on with the way obesity occurs that doesn't appear to have much to do with how much a fat person "cares" (and in fact, caring too much in the wrong way actually makes it worse-- internalizing fat shaming narratives tends to fatten people regardless of their weight!). I also think lack of exercise isn't a care thing. The US literally works more hours than other first world countries-- who has the time to hit the gym or go for runs?
nradov 4y ago
It was so weird watching public health messaging during the COVID-19 pandemic. Based on early reports out of China we knew from the beginning that obesity was a key risk factor for severe cases, and yet they hardly mentioned the importance of losing weight. Instead they wasted a lot of effort on other non-pharmaceutical interventions such as face masks, which had never been proven to have any significant benefit for the general public. https://doi.org/10.14740/cr1118 https://doi.org/10.14740/cr1118 https://doi.org/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6 https://doi.org/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6