15 ms·

Why are so many young men single and sexless?

82 points by acqbu 4y ago

itake 4y ago
A therapist is recommending therapy to improve men’s relationship skills and to stop watch porn. But the author says the “problem” (for lack of a better term) is women are less interested in dating (focusing on careers and education) and are overwhelmed with their number of choices. This seems like a supply side problem. I’m not seeing how therapy will fix top of the funnel issues.
- theGnuMe 4y ago
  I'm partial to the Sofa Theory of Dating: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/understanding-narcissism/202302/the-sofa-theory-of-dating https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/understanding-narc... I would pay attention to demographics more than anything and make sure you live somewhere where there the odds are in your favor. Since more women go to college these days, it makes sense to go to college (as a male). But the most important thing is to figure out who you are. That is the key super power in dating. You know who you are, your values and what you want. It is OK if it is a work in progress but therapy really helps.
- atoav 4y ago
  I mean it is both. When most men have different expectations of a relationship than most women that means there will be less relationships over all. As of the therapy question: As someone who is in a happy relationship for more than a decade and never felt in need of therapy, I'd still agree here. If you want a healthy relationship with good sex, both sides being at good terms with themselves and their sexuality is a must. Therapy can be a very good way to come to terms with things that you would otherwise have a hard time adressing yourself. If this is indeed a "supply side issue" that just means men must adjust to become the persons most women would like to share their lives with. Or even more simply put: They need to avoid being the person who women do not like to share their lives with: Men who are not on good terms with themselves, who have never reflected on who they are and why they have the desires they have, men who are desperate to get sex and don't even care anymore with whom, and when they get sex, the kind of sex they want comes out of works of fiction. There is a good supply of men like these and it turns out women are not in demand for that type. You will have men that fit that exact description and still get women, by means of having a ton of money, good looks and so on – so they found different ways of attracting a specific subset of women that seeks for that. But my advice here is: If a man wants a happy and fulfilling relationship, starting with the baseline of "A man has to trick women into liking him" is a recipe for disaster. You might find women who accept this, but you will never find someone who likes you for who you are instead of for what you are. Therapy is a good (but not the only) way to become a grounded, balanced, better individual and those tend to fare better in relationships.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- BlackMask 4y ago
  You improve your relationship skills by being in a relationship, making 10,000 mistakes, and learning from each mistake. It's no different than learning how to write Python code or doing anything else for that matter. A therapist can advise you on behavior that: 1. you observe and tell the therapist about, or 2. he notices during the session. I've been happily married for +20 years. I went to therapy a couple of times: wasn't worth the time and energy. The best tool I found for debugging my life is a plain 3x5 pocket notebook. Every evening I take 30 minutes to summarize the events of the day and how I reacted to them. Then every few weeks I review the journal and it’s surprising how often I see patterns in my thoughts and actions and say “Oh I need to fix that.” Or “I handled that pretty well.” Basically I treat my journal like a server log for my brain: every event and its response are written to the log, then reviewed from time to time for patterns and anomalies. My journal is the same.
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    >Every evening I take 30 minutes to summarize the events of the day and how I reacted to them. Then every few weeks I review the journal and it’s surprising how often I see patterns in my thoughts and actions and say “Oh I need to fix that.” Or “I handled that pretty well.” This is a really awesome method for self improvement
paul7986 4y ago
One reason I believe is because of social media and dating apps... social media because you want to post the most beautiful pictures of you and your family so you get over 100 likes. To dating apps where only a certain percentage (50 to 70%) of men get dates cause hey woman (men too) want to post pics of their beautiful family on Instagram and Facebook, etc and get confirmation of your value in this life/earth. Like hey look everyone I was able to create something beautiful (beautiful family/children) and I know I did because look how many likes I get for all my photos of my beautiful family I was able to create.
chitowneats 4y ago
"Young men must re-prioritize real-life relationships and intimacy attuned to the shift in priorities that women have already made" The priorities of women in their 20s are dating men in their 30s. This new stat and the accompanying Boomer commentary is genuinely one of the funniest memes so far in 2023. They literally don't understand the world they created for future generations.
- karmasimida 4y ago
  30s single women complain 30s men being creeps for younger girls
  - watwut 4y ago
    I haven't seen that, really. I have seen people interpreting such age gap as a sign of guys immaturity or a general red flag for "that dude is looking to take advantage of you". I have never seen the "I would date that guy but he dates younger girls" thing. Having younger partner is status symbol for a men to show off to other men. It does not make him look like good potential partner to adult women tho.
    - itake 4y ago
      A recent example is Leonardo DiCaprio and his new partner have upset a few women on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/10w8fv2/the_men_defending_leonardo_dicaprio_are_disgusting/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/10w8fv2/th...
      - watwut 4y ago
        They claim the relationship is predatory which is exactly what I wrote.
        itake 4y ago
        > I have never seen the "I would date that guy but he dates younger girls" thing. Reading between the lines, I think many women would want to date Leo, but he dates younger girls. > a general red flag for "that dude is looking to take advantage of you" Flags fly both directions: Young people take advantage of an older person in dating (see sugar babies, mail order brides, or a model taking advantage of Leo's $300m lifestyle).
eurasiantiger 4y ago
There is nothing new here, this phenomenon has existed for millennia. See Goethe’s ”The Sorrows of Young Werther”.
- cykros 4y ago
  It may be exacerbated lately because of the fact that we have so many fewer wars that involve sending off large swaths of the young male population to fight and die, so instead they're surviving long enough to complain about the situation. Sure, we still have wars, but they're much more asymmetric, and often enough the technology in use results in fewer military fatalities, at least in the West.
coding123 4y ago
So are they 40 percent dating 2 women at a time?
- paulrouget 4y ago
  No. 30+ men dating 30- women.
  - coding123 4y ago
    That doesn't explain anything
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    Where did 30+ women go in this equation?
    - 5560675260 4y ago
      Likely also single.
    - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
      Dating 40+ men?
    - cykros 4y ago
      Pure speculation, especially because most of this all is, but in keeping with wild assumptions: They're divorced, after their high status husbands traded in for a younger model. The solution seems to be for 20-something men and 40-something women to find some common ground. Hormone levels seem appropriate for that match anyway, as both groups are slightly past their peak lifetime levels.
    - icare_1er 4y ago
      They have a cat.
    - aeternum 4y ago
      They're available. The male-to-female ratio drops precipitously as you increase the age band: https://public.tableau.com/views/PNWMatch_com/Match-PNW-Dash?:embed=y&:embed_code_version=3&:loadOrderID=1&:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link https://public.tableau.com/views/PNWMatch_com/Match-PNW-Dash...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kingstoned 4y ago
“It's a fact...that in societies like ours sex truly represents a second system of differentiation, completely independent of money; and as a system of differentiation it functions just as mercilessly. The effects of these two systems are, furthermore, strictly equivalent. Just like unrestrained economic liberalism, and for similar reasons, sexual liberalism produces phenomena of absolute pauperization . Some men make love every day; others five or six times in their life, or never. Some make love with dozens of women; others with none. It's what's known as 'the law of the market'...Economic liberalism is an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society. Sexual liberalism is likewise an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society.” ― Michel Houellebecq, Extension du domaine de la lutte
- geysersam 4y ago
  Good writing, but bad argument. Some things that make those "systems" different: 1. The market domain is much "wider" than sex. Money influences every aspect of your life. 2. The exact same argument could be made about many other "systems of differentiation". Such as skill or physical and mental health. It's a cheap argument to make it seem like socialist arguments against economic inequality also applies to some kind of "sexual inequality". Sounds like an argument that eventually leads to Handmaidens tale, but I could just be imagining things. Fact is that socialism isn't about removing all differences or all unfairness in the world at all cost. It's about constructing a system that limits the negative side effects of the market economy. One aspect of that is to avoid the commercialization of non-economic aspects of life. What Houllebecq describes is the opposite. Love as a commodity.
  - kingstoned 4y ago
    I suggest you read this: https://www.overcomingbias.com/2018/06/comparing-income-sex-redistribution.html https://www.overcomingbias.com/2018/06/comparing-income-sex-...
    - geysersam 4y ago
      I don't understand how you mean that long text addresses the issues raised by me and others. From what I can discern, he makes two counter arguments: 1. Sex is as important as income. 2. Poor income leads to "poor access" to sex. If the income distribution is unfair, so must the resulting sex distribution be. To 1 I can only respond that many people feel differently. Anecdotally, I've never encountered anyone but well off men making the argument. Is that your experience also? For 2: Poor income leads to many unfair situations. Let's cure the problem and not the symptom.
wiseowise 4y ago
> Faced with the choice between an energy-intensive, highly competitive dating environment and the low-effort rewards of porn, young men appear to be taking the path of least resistance. Why would they? And for thousandth time: porn addiction is a symptom, not a cause.
- AltruisticGapHN 4y ago
  We have to be careful and not fall in reductivism with the "is a symptom not a cause" line of thinking. It could hold you back your whole life. I think it is more helpful to think of it as A and B are linked somehow. Otherwise you're holding up an abstract, imaginary, "true cause¨ that someday/maybe we will find. And of course no such thing exists. If we know anything about the body is that it is a complex ORGANISM where there is no single cause to anything. Besides, if drinking before driving is NOT the cause of an accident (could be a myriad of other things like the state of the car, the conditions of the road, the weather, etc). End of the day, we know drinking and driving don't go well together - and a wise man will act accordingly.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Drug addiction is an illness, but it's not like you randomly get the drug-addiction-virus because you didn't wash your hands after touching something in the super market. Drug addiction usually follows drug abuse, and drug abuse often has a reason. That reason is what leads to drug addiction, in other words: drug addiction is a symptom. You can get people into rehab, but unless the reason for their drug abuse is fixed, they'll have a hard time getting & staying clean. If someone limps because their leg is broken, you'll try to fix their leg, not teach them to walk differently so the limp isn't as visible.
- Bancakes 4y ago
  I agree. We've had sex toys and prostitutes for thousands of years. Blaming porn is a weak band-aid on a deeper cut.
  - igetspam 4y ago
Archelaos 4y ago
> Recent Pew Research indicates that over 60% of young men are currently single. Given that the proportion and dynamics of some-sex relations makes not a big difference here, would this not imply that roughly the same percentage of young women are currently single, too?
- trekkie1024 4y ago
  Not at all, we're not completely sure why but single women: single men is 2:1 (https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/ https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo...)
  - watwut 4y ago
    > Social circles have been shrinking for men and women, especially since the pandemic, but men struggle more. Thirty years ago, 55 percent of men reported having six or more close friends. By 2021, that share had slipped to 27 percent. I am surprised over this. I thought the boys have advantage over girls in pandemic friends keeping. First, they play videogames as a form of socialization much more and therefore pandemic affected it much less. They still kept playing games with friends. And second, because non-feminist and slightly anti-feminists pundits created minor panic over girls socialization. (I put emphasis on non-and-slightly-anti-feminist, because feminists focusing on girls does not imply anything special). Like, I get how video games as form of socialization prevent finding partner. But I am surprised they did not helped boys to keep friends.
    - igetspam 4y ago
      But it turns out, we're just not very good at being friends or a social group. https://www.iflscience.com/20-kids-were-left-alone-in-a-house-for-a-controversial-experiment-this-is-what-happened-67576 https://www.iflscience.com/20-kids-were-left-alone-in-a-hous... (No, this is not scientific but it's pretty interesting.)
      - 4y ago
atoav 4y ago
I mean one sure way not to have sex with someone else is to never expose yourself to situations that could lead to such a thing. As an educator I have to say that over my career there was a noticable shift in how students behave. The students I have today are more shy, more careful and more risk averse than students 4 years ago. I could imagine that many of them would just decide to not bother at all until luck falls into their hands. But the thing about dating and getting to know people in a world where everybody pretends to be something they are not is that showing them your real you is a risk that you might not be willing to take. But if you don't ever take the risk to show them who you are really, how would you expect someone to like you for who you are?
- BlackMask 4y ago
  Maybe students are more shy and more careful because everyone around them has a video camera in their pocket.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    And highly developed, must-participate-in social media sites. Cameras ain't jack if there isn't a way to share the footage. Then there is a Me-Too thing, which has led to a lot of younger women being very sensitive about real or perceived aggressions from men. Perhaps justified, but now it means a small misstep or failure to walk the line can be costly in a social sense. Young dude doesn't really know how to interact with girls so he comes off too strong and ends up being called a creeper on Insta and shunned for a few years. Why take the risk when onlyfans is cheap?
    - jstarfish 4y ago
      > being very sensitive about real or perceived aggressions from men. Perhaps justified, but now it means a small misstep or failure to walk the line can be costly in a social sense. Not at all justified. Crying victim over vague aggressions is as pathologically toxic and sexist as it gets. They can't even be bothered to make an actual false accusation they can later be held accountable for, it's just "waaah, there's a man here who's not behaving the way -I- want them to. Minions, attack!" It's regressed so badly, any sort of attempt to hold this subset of women accountable for their own behavior is met with them trying to rile up a mob against you as they publicly squawk about you being vaguely "aggressive." The point is to intimidate male targets (legitimate or not) into compliance and silence. It's not justified, it's female-perpetrated abuse (DARVO is passive aggression). Not a fun time to be a parent or teacher with any sort of legal responsibility for this demographic; there is absolutely no support for custodians because everybody has been conditioned to uncritically associate all men with abuse and all women with victimhood. God help you if you're a male victim of anything, because nobody else will! IME: In a recent workplace violence complaint, a female employee played this card against a male manager who was "aggressive" in giving her a negative performance review for job abandonment (ironically, this wasn't a younger employee). She later stole thousands of dollars of equipment and quit.
throwaway1492 4y ago
The reality is that young men have always been “optional” in society. Biology looms large. Women seek to mate with the most high status males, evidenced by the fraction of men who get the majority of the “action” on dating apps and in life. Thus throughout history we’ve died in the wars and otherwise exist in the margins. An example of the desparity to me is the concept “mansplaining” woke culture disparages. Some women (and others) see a man explaining something as condescension. Whereas I’ve always been grateful that anyone would take the time to educate or otherwise try to share information and gasp, try to help me?! I believe this reflects a fundamental difference in experience worth reflecting on.
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago
  >Women seek to mate with the most high status males, evidenced by the fraction of men who get the majority of the “action” on dating apps and in life. I don't think you can really extrapolate to all of human history from a time when birth control is widely available.
  - MagicMoonlight 4y ago
    They’ve done DNA anaylsis before and it was something like 13% of men in history successfully reproduced before civilisation enforced monogamy. Like how most male pack animals don’t get to reproduce.
    - tzs 4y ago
      > something like 13% of men in history successfully reproduced before civilisation enforced monogamy Note that doesn't necessarily mean only 13% of men were having sex. A woman could have sex with a 2000 different men over the course of 20 years and only at most less than 40 of those 2000 men could reproduce as a result of those couplings.
    - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
      do you have this point when "civilization" enforced monogamy? I would think the explanation was more that Og the big violent caveman took all the women and clubbed any one who got to close which is very close to what mating has looked like in lots of human history. Men locking up the women to mate with - harems etc. - is not quite the same as "Women seek to mate"
nieksand 4y ago
I find it fascinating that this article only calls for young men to change their behavior but demands nothing of young women.
- antihero 4y ago
  It isn't their problem?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- mseepgood 4y ago
  It's them who want something so it's on them to change.
  - icare_1er 4y ago
    Does that logic work for Blacks for instance ?
    - igetspam 4y ago
      What do you think black people want that is impacted by their behavior?
    - geysersam 4y ago
      If you want something that you have a right to, other people have to change. Not being discriminated is not a "nice to have", it's a human right. Sex with attractive women on the other hand is definitely not a human right. Is it just me who finds it ridiculous that this has to be spelled out?
      - kreetx 4y ago
        I find it funny as well. I guess sex can be considered a human right in a certain way: no third party should be able to stop a consenting group of people to having sex. While this is the wrong definition: another person should have sex with me. This latter definition often seems to be the taken meaning of "sex is a human right" and seems to be interpreted that way to advance the interest of that particular person saying it.
BenGosub 4y ago
[flagged]
- emptyfile 4y ago
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- alluro2 4y ago
  Some ways that might be true I can think of are if you are someone who doesn't build any emotional connection to the other person whatsoever, and always just "do sex" your way, without much of the other person's involvement. Otherwise, strong disagree, as emotional involvement, which depends on so much more than if someone is "higher than 6", and the dynamic of pleasure of getting, and of giving, which highly depends on the other person, are 2 factors I'd say far outweight physical appearance. Even without you as a factor, sex with a 10 can be very lousy, while sex with a funny, caring and passionate 5 can be out of this world.
  - BenGosub 4y ago
    Well, in almost every case, first there's bonding and building of a connection, but for me and I think the majority, the physical attraction plays an important part. The grade "6" is relative and the judgement will vary between individuals.
  - majkinetor 4y ago
    A frontend influences bonding disproportionally just initially. With more time passing, one may be more influenced by other qualities of the person. Hence, frontend 10 can be very losy and frontend 5 can be out of this world.
- igetspam 4y ago
  I think most women would agree that being single is far more interesting than interacting with men who rank them numerically.
  - BenGosub 4y ago
mrkeen 4y ago
> Faced with the choice between an energy-intensive, highly competitive dating environment and the low-effort rewards of porn, young men appear to be taking the path of least resistance. If young men are dropping out of the competition and resorting to porn instead, then who's staying in the dating environment to keep it competitive? With all those porn dropouts, I should have an easy time dating, right?
- tsukikage 4y ago
  Dates Georg is an outlier and may be ignored.
- Whinner 4y ago
  Older men who are not in gen z.
- aeternum 4y ago
  Thinking about it in terms of graph theory helps. Society is generally much more connected due to social media and dating apps. Even if there are proportionally the same percentage of highly desirable guys, those guys are now much more accessible to females.
- Melchizedek 4y ago
  Very attractive men dating multiple women.
trekkie1024 4y ago
As a complement, I found this piece on the topic quite insightful and well researched: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/ https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo...
aaron695 4y ago
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NalNezumi 4y ago
The article comes off as slightly condescending; even as I'm 32 and just above the "Young men" threshold (<30) Some of the thing mentioned, such as young women not looking for emotional attachment as much might be true, but what about >30 women? My early 20s, online dating era romantic life was miserable; it made me feel completely worthless and that's a sentiment A LOT of young men get from those dating apps. I simply gave up, which was a good choice for a poor, stressed out and anxious engineering student. However, around 28 and forward this drastically changed; and anyone above 30 can probably recall how the dynamic switches around this age group; men get more comfortable about themselves and women realizes that they're competing against people younger than them (which is a group growing every year). If family is a desire then that also add a sense of urgency So suddenly (assuming you've put some work in) the dating (and sex) life becomes a balanced game. This is ofc affected by other factors such as culture and demographics, which is closely tied to locations. But people have moved country and cities for all form of opportunities (including mating) so this is a way easier problem to solve, if one prioritizes it. People already get married and have kids later, and have for a while. Only focusing on <30 males seems like a scope very useless to analyze the issue, if not from the negativa mental health consequences this have for young men
- geysersam 4y ago
  Yes，part of the explanation is probably that women mature a bit earlier than men (in terms of romantic and sexual attractivity).
  - igetspam 4y ago
    So 20-30 year old men are too immature for women to be interested in them? But women of the same age aren't? So should we keep you'd men out of the work force and out of the general population because they're too immature to interact with more reasoned beings? Do you really think that?
    - DicIfTEx 4y ago
      I read this whole thing in Tucker Carlson's voice.
icare_1er 4y ago
It's called "progress".
- mikhael28 4y ago
  Well, maybe we should learn from history and start a bunch of wars to kill off a bunch of men and make it easier for the survivors? Is that what you want? I prefer 'progress', thank you very much. You, and all your posts on this thread, sound bitter man.
unpopularopp 4y ago
Isn't that a good thing? I see this as a victory sign of feminism. Women no longer have to live their lives as a second class citizens. Marry > have kids > raise them etc. This is not the default path anymore and of course than means a lot of men would end up alone. Just a natural balancing and how things should have always been.
- icare_1er 4y ago
  If they had "always been that way", by definition, you wouldn't be here, because you (or I, or everyone else) being here is the result of a society producing descendants, which itself is the consequence of a society producing couples.
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  This should be higher. What's good for the individual is not always what's good for society. I know a few "young spinsters" but I also know a ton of happy, successful single women.
  - jocaal 4y ago
    > What's good for the individual is not always what's good for society. Should we not prioritize the society as a whole, compared to the individual? This is like saying its ok to ignore global warming, because my immediate benefit is much more important than the collective health of society.
amriksohata 4y ago
Because men have easy access to porn, the one thing that helps satisfy one of their core needs without having to pay for a new pair of jeans or meal to take a girl out. Society also expects mean to take up more of what women were expected to do 50-100 years ago, they don't want all that when they can cook on their own and still have their remaining needs met at low cost, low effort.
- vegardx 4y ago
  How unbelievable sad life must be if you think that you can replace a healthy relationship, and all that comes with it, by cooking your own meals and looking at porn.
  - amriksohata 4y ago
    but many do
corbulo 4y ago
"It's the economy, stupid"
- myrryr 4y ago
  Absol fucking Utley. You don't date if you can't afford to go on a date.
bilqis 4y ago
Probably because of the economy that isolates people and prevents them from actively engaging with each other. Especially if we’re talking USA where quite a big population is stuck in houses/condos separated from everywhere by a car ride. I think isolation became even worse after pandemic and WFH.
hackrnusr 4y ago
A recent Rasmussen poll claims that almost half of blacks are not sure that it is okay to be white. Have to wonder then what percent of women are not sure that is okay to be male, and if this has anything to do with the current "state of our unions" as discussed in the article.
- TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
  The key points at the top of the article state that sexual intimacy is at a 30-year low across genders. And then goes on to say that young men must re-prioritize and attune to the shift in priorities that women have already made. Well ok. That's pretty toxic. Young men can do whatever tf they want, generally speaking. If they want their genes to be passed on they'll find a mate. If they don't find a mate, their genes won't be passed on, thereby resolving the issue anyway.
- mikhael28 4y ago
  Stop blaming other people, or society, for your own shortcomings. Look in the mirror.
  - hackrnusr 4y ago
    Hope you're also telling that to all of the folks who are demanding jobs be set aside for them under the ever-increasing number of DEI initiatives that are being rolled out.
- Server6 4y ago
  Stop, just stop. That Rasmussen poll is a loaded question framed to make black people appear unreasonable and work up a racist right wing base. It worked Scott Adams up so much he went on a racist tirade and got himself fired. "It's okay to be white" is a slogan historically used by alt-right trolls, the KKK, and miscellaneous Nazi groups. Obviously when polled about overtly racist slogans black people are going to tell Rasmussen to get bent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_okay_to_be_white https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_okay_to_be_white
  - 4y ago
myrryr 4y ago
You don't go on dates if you can't afford to go on dates.
LeroyRaz 4y ago
I think the idea that men can focus on skill development to date in a harder market is a valid one, but also misleading. This is because the dating environment for straight men currently is a highly unkind learning environment. (Namely the feedback one gets in the environment is hard to learn from) My understanding is that for a man, getting a move almost right can be worse than not making the move at all, for example attempting to move in for a kiss at almost but not quite the right moment. And errors are currently harshly socially judged. Hence a lot of men, particularly sensitive men who worry about making women uncomfortable, are inexperienced and feel stuck and trapped in that inexperience. I think this unkindness of environment is a societal issue and one that cannot be levied as a failure of young men. Ultimately it is costly for all, men and women, as both would be better of and happier if the men knew what they were doing, and knew how to appeal to women.
- aspergsadd 4y ago
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aspergsadd 4y ago
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deleted 4y ago
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philonoist 4y ago
As pointed out in other comments, the data is inconsistent once the gravy of opinion is stipped off. This is the common theme of my friends and me(age>30). 1. We get satiated with porn, as noted in this article, but also life size sex toys, friends with benefits and plenty of sex workers. None of them complained how average looking or boring I was, even though I was one 2. An inconsistance with popular stereotype, We get satisfied with emotional relationship and intimacy via blood relatives and friends. The dense networking effects eased me into their personal life before and during the pandemic. Everybody is happy with it. I just had a dinner with my thesis advisor( 6 years back when I was in University), vented my family feuds for hours at length with my close friends, burst out on how silly the office politics were while doing some woodworking with my gym buddies. At the same time, I have deep sense of camaraderie with my colleagues. No one is gay to my knowledge, nor is one socially motivated by being one in such situations. I haven't described my social circle of neighbors who lent me big stash of money in troubling times! 3. We never wanted a woman for a need. I am perfectly alright sleeping alone, waking up alone, eating alone in a big empty house, seeing PDA all day in parties or public, or travelling all alone. I just couldn't come up with a situation of my life where a void or need with a women is to be filled even in social life. Even close family events are not at all a taboo to be presented as single. 4. I knew the hints women were throwing at me, I just couldn't understand why because they could easily have what I have and more. When you want monogamy + marriage + children + family, why judge me and repudiate harshly whenever I clarify my tastes? 5. I get paid good for SV or NY and have advanced degrees myself, but the real game changer was lasting frienships formed at all points of life. The networking effects(as elaborated in 2) led plenty of women to me and me to plenty of women. 6. Is there a research supporting alone men with lonely men? Like deteriorating mental health?
DiscourseFan 4y ago
My experience as a single young man in my early to mid 20s is that I never have time for a relationship, and even if I do I'm not well-established enough socially to take one or pursue one, if I get involved with someone now I might have to move for work within a few months, and it takes a lot of time and effort to get into a relationship which I can't afford to invest. Also, young women today are very unapproachable, I've been bullied and socially ostracized for showing interest in girls. Otherwise I have to meet women at bars which almost never results in anyone getting laid because the women are scared to go home with you, having just met you for the first time. Dating apps are basically a scam, they feed off of your anxiety, and they don't usually result in sexual fulfillment. I've learned that the best way to attract young women is to treat them like complete shit, ignore them, be mean and insulting to them. But I don't want to hurt anyone and most young men probably feel the same way. But all the ones I know who get laid regularly are shitty to women in some respect, and it feels like, as a man, if you try to be nice you'll just get walked all over.
r_singh 4y ago
It's the same for all animals boys. A hornbill couple living near my house got separated, I'm guessing one of them passed away (sad I know). So I googled to see how long the next one will live and take to find a mate and here's what I found: "Females find a new male within as few as three weeks. Males, however, tend to wait until the following fall or winter" from https://www.audubon.org/news/till-death-do-them-part-8-birds-mate-life https://www.audubon.org/news/till-death-do-them-part-8-birds...
bsnnkv 4y ago
I like to think that I'm not too trapped in my own bubble, but then an article like this comes along and I read the aggregated comments[1], and I realize how small my own field of view of society actually is. [1]: https://kulli.sh/search?q=https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-state-of-our-unions/202302/why-are-so-many-young-men-single-and-sexless https://kulli.sh/search?q=https://www.psychologytoday.com/in...

82 points by acqbu 4y ago

A therapist is recommending therapy to improve men’s relationship skills and to stop watch porn. But the author says the “problem” (for lack of a better term) is women are less interested in dating (focusing on careers and education) and are overwhelmed with their number of choices. This seems like a supply side problem. I’m not seeing how therapy will fix top of the funnel issues.

theGnuMe 4y ago
I'm partial to the Sofa Theory of Dating: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/understanding-narcissism/202302/the-sofa-theory-of-dating https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/understanding-narc... I would pay attention to demographics more than anything and make sure you live somewhere where there the odds are in your favor. Since more women go to college these days, it makes sense to go to college (as a male). But the most important thing is to figure out who you are. That is the key super power in dating. You know who you are, your values and what you want. It is OK if it is a work in progress but therapy really helps.
atoav 4y ago
I mean it is both. When most men have different expectations of a relationship than most women that means there will be less relationships over all. As of the therapy question: As someone who is in a happy relationship for more than a decade and never felt in need of therapy, I'd still agree here. If you want a healthy relationship with good sex, both sides being at good terms with themselves and their sexuality is a must. Therapy can be a very good way to come to terms with things that you would otherwise have a hard time adressing yourself. If this is indeed a "supply side issue" that just means men must adjust to become the persons most women would like to share their lives with. Or even more simply put: They need to avoid being the person who women do not like to share their lives with: Men who are not on good terms with themselves, who have never reflected on who they are and why they have the desires they have, men who are desperate to get sex and don't even care anymore with whom, and when they get sex, the kind of sex they want comes out of works of fiction. There is a good supply of men like these and it turns out women are not in demand for that type. You will have men that fit that exact description and still get women, by means of having a ton of money, good looks and so on – so they found different ways of attracting a specific subset of women that seeks for that. But my advice here is: If a man wants a happy and fulfilling relationship, starting with the baseline of "A man has to trick women into liking him" is a recipe for disaster. You might find women who accept this, but you will never find someone who likes you for who you are instead of for what you are. Therapy is a good (but not the only) way to become a grounded, balanced, better individual and those tend to fare better in relationships.
deleted 4y ago
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BlackMask 4y ago
You improve your relationship skills by being in a relationship, making 10,000 mistakes, and learning from each mistake. It's no different than learning how to write Python code or doing anything else for that matter. A therapist can advise you on behavior that: 1. you observe and tell the therapist about, or 2. he notices during the session. I've been happily married for +20 years. I went to therapy a couple of times: wasn't worth the time and energy. The best tool I found for debugging my life is a plain 3x5 pocket notebook. Every evening I take 30 minutes to summarize the events of the day and how I reacted to them. Then every few weeks I review the journal and it’s surprising how often I see patterns in my thoughts and actions and say “Oh I need to fix that.” Or “I handled that pretty well.” Basically I treat my journal like a server log for my brain: every event and its response are written to the log, then reviewed from time to time for patterns and anomalies. My journal is the same.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  >Every evening I take 30 minutes to summarize the events of the day and how I reacted to them. Then every few weeks I review the journal and it’s surprising how often I see patterns in my thoughts and actions and say “Oh I need to fix that.” Or “I handled that pretty well.” This is a really awesome method for self improvement

paul7986 4y ago

One reason I believe is because of social media and dating apps... social media because you want to post the most beautiful pictures of you and your family so you get over 100 likes. To dating apps where only a certain percentage (50 to 70%) of men get dates cause hey woman (men too) want to post pics of their beautiful family on Instagram and Facebook, etc and get confirmation of your value in this life/earth. Like hey look everyone I was able to create something beautiful (beautiful family/children) and I know I did because look how many likes I get for all my photos of my beautiful family I was able to create.

chitowneats 4y ago

"Young men must re-prioritize real-life relationships and intimacy attuned to the shift in priorities that women have already made" The priorities of women in their 20s are dating men in their 30s. This new stat and the accompanying Boomer commentary is genuinely one of the funniest memes so far in 2023. They literally don't understand the world they created for future generations.

karmasimida 4y ago
30s single women complain 30s men being creeps for younger girls
- watwut 4y ago
  I haven't seen that, really. I have seen people interpreting such age gap as a sign of guys immaturity or a general red flag for "that dude is looking to take advantage of you". I have never seen the "I would date that guy but he dates younger girls" thing. Having younger partner is status symbol for a men to show off to other men. It does not make him look like good potential partner to adult women tho.
  - itake 4y ago
    A recent example is Leonardo DiCaprio and his new partner have upset a few women on Reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/10w8fv2/the_men_defending_leonardo_dicaprio_are_disgusting/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/10w8fv2/th...
    - watwut 4y ago
      They claim the relationship is predatory which is exactly what I wrote.
      - itake 4y ago
        > I have never seen the "I would date that guy but he dates younger girls" thing. Reading between the lines, I think many women would want to date Leo, but he dates younger girls. > a general red flag for "that dude is looking to take advantage of you" Flags fly both directions: Young people take advantage of an older person in dating (see sugar babies, mail order brides, or a model taking advantage of Leo's $300m lifestyle).

eurasiantiger 4y ago

There is nothing new here, this phenomenon has existed for millennia. See Goethe’s ”The Sorrows of Young Werther”.

cykros 4y ago
It may be exacerbated lately because of the fact that we have so many fewer wars that involve sending off large swaths of the young male population to fight and die, so instead they're surviving long enough to complain about the situation. Sure, we still have wars, but they're much more asymmetric, and often enough the technology in use results in fewer military fatalities, at least in the West.

coding123 4y ago

So are they 40 percent dating 2 women at a time?

paulrouget 4y ago
No. 30+ men dating 30- women.
- coding123 4y ago
  That doesn't explain anything
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  Where did 30+ women go in this equation?
  - 5560675260 4y ago
    Likely also single.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
    Dating 40+ men?
  - cykros 4y ago
    Pure speculation, especially because most of this all is, but in keeping with wild assumptions: They're divorced, after their high status husbands traded in for a younger model. The solution seems to be for 20-something men and 40-something women to find some common ground. Hormone levels seem appropriate for that match anyway, as both groups are slightly past their peak lifetime levels.
  - icare_1er 4y ago
    They have a cat.
  - aeternum 4y ago
    They're available. The male-to-female ratio drops precipitously as you increase the age band: https://public.tableau.com/views/PNWMatch_com/Match-PNW-Dash?:embed=y&:embed_code_version=3&:loadOrderID=1&:display_count=y&:origin=viz_share_link https://public.tableau.com/views/PNWMatch_com/Match-PNW-Dash...

deleted 4y ago

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kingstoned 4y ago

“It's a fact...that in societies like ours sex truly represents a second system of differentiation, completely independent of money; and as a system of differentiation it functions just as mercilessly. The effects of these two systems are, furthermore, strictly equivalent. Just like unrestrained economic liberalism, and for similar reasons, sexual liberalism produces phenomena of absolute pauperization . Some men make love every day; others five or six times in their life, or never. Some make love with dozens of women; others with none. It's what's known as 'the law of the market'...Economic liberalism is an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society. Sexual liberalism is likewise an extension of the domain of the struggle, its extension to all ages and all classes of society.” ― Michel Houellebecq, Extension du domaine de la lutte

geysersam 4y ago
Good writing, but bad argument. Some things that make those "systems" different: 1. The market domain is much "wider" than sex. Money influences every aspect of your life. 2. The exact same argument could be made about many other "systems of differentiation". Such as skill or physical and mental health. It's a cheap argument to make it seem like socialist arguments against economic inequality also applies to some kind of "sexual inequality". Sounds like an argument that eventually leads to Handmaidens tale, but I could just be imagining things. Fact is that socialism isn't about removing all differences or all unfairness in the world at all cost. It's about constructing a system that limits the negative side effects of the market economy. One aspect of that is to avoid the commercialization of non-economic aspects of life. What Houllebecq describes is the opposite. Love as a commodity.
- kingstoned 4y ago
  I suggest you read this: https://www.overcomingbias.com/2018/06/comparing-income-sex-redistribution.html https://www.overcomingbias.com/2018/06/comparing-income-sex-...
  - geysersam 4y ago
    I don't understand how you mean that long text addresses the issues raised by me and others. From what I can discern, he makes two counter arguments: 1. Sex is as important as income. 2. Poor income leads to "poor access" to sex. If the income distribution is unfair, so must the resulting sex distribution be. To 1 I can only respond that many people feel differently. Anecdotally, I've never encountered anyone but well off men making the argument. Is that your experience also? For 2: Poor income leads to many unfair situations. Let's cure the problem and not the symptom.

wiseowise 4y ago

AltruisticGapHN 4y ago
We have to be careful and not fall in reductivism with the "is a symptom not a cause" line of thinking. It could hold you back your whole life. I think it is more helpful to think of it as A and B are linked somehow. Otherwise you're holding up an abstract, imaginary, "true cause¨ that someday/maybe we will find. And of course no such thing exists. If we know anything about the body is that it is a complex ORGANISM where there is no single cause to anything. Besides, if drinking before driving is NOT the cause of an accident (could be a myriad of other things like the state of the car, the conditions of the road, the weather, etc). End of the day, we know drinking and driving don't go well together - and a wise man will act accordingly.
- luckylion 4y ago
  Drug addiction is an illness, but it's not like you randomly get the drug-addiction-virus because you didn't wash your hands after touching something in the super market. Drug addiction usually follows drug abuse, and drug abuse often has a reason. That reason is what leads to drug addiction, in other words: drug addiction is a symptom. You can get people into rehab, but unless the reason for their drug abuse is fixed, they'll have a hard time getting & staying clean. If someone limps because their leg is broken, you'll try to fix their leg, not teach them to walk differently so the limp isn't as visible.
Bancakes 4y ago
I agree. We've had sex toys and prostitutes for thousands of years. Blaming porn is a weak band-aid on a deeper cut.
- igetspam 4y ago

Archelaos 4y ago

> Recent Pew Research indicates that over 60% of young men are currently single. Given that the proportion and dynamics of some-sex relations makes not a big difference here, would this not imply that roughly the same percentage of young women are currently single, too?

trekkie1024 4y ago
Not at all, we're not completely sure why but single women: single men is 2:1 (https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/ https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo...)
- watwut 4y ago
  > Social circles have been shrinking for men and women, especially since the pandemic, but men struggle more. Thirty years ago, 55 percent of men reported having six or more close friends. By 2021, that share had slipped to 27 percent. I am surprised over this. I thought the boys have advantage over girls in pandemic friends keeping. First, they play videogames as a form of socialization much more and therefore pandemic affected it much less. They still kept playing games with friends. And second, because non-feminist and slightly anti-feminists pundits created minor panic over girls socialization. (I put emphasis on non-and-slightly-anti-feminist, because feminists focusing on girls does not imply anything special). Like, I get how video games as form of socialization prevent finding partner. But I am surprised they did not helped boys to keep friends.
  - igetspam 4y ago
    But it turns out, we're just not very good at being friends or a social group. https://www.iflscience.com/20-kids-were-left-alone-in-a-house-for-a-controversial-experiment-this-is-what-happened-67576 https://www.iflscience.com/20-kids-were-left-alone-in-a-hous... (No, this is not scientific but it's pretty interesting.)
    - 4y ago

atoav 4y ago

I mean one sure way not to have sex with someone else is to never expose yourself to situations that could lead to such a thing. As an educator I have to say that over my career there was a noticable shift in how students behave. The students I have today are more shy, more careful and more risk averse than students 4 years ago. I could imagine that many of them would just decide to not bother at all until luck falls into their hands. But the thing about dating and getting to know people in a world where everybody pretends to be something they are not is that showing them your real you is a risk that you might not be willing to take. But if you don't ever take the risk to show them who you are really, how would you expect someone to like you for who you are?

BlackMask 4y ago
Maybe students are more shy and more careful because everyone around them has a video camera in their pocket.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  And highly developed, must-participate-in social media sites. Cameras ain't jack if there isn't a way to share the footage. Then there is a Me-Too thing, which has led to a lot of younger women being very sensitive about real or perceived aggressions from men. Perhaps justified, but now it means a small misstep or failure to walk the line can be costly in a social sense. Young dude doesn't really know how to interact with girls so he comes off too strong and ends up being called a creeper on Insta and shunned for a few years. Why take the risk when onlyfans is cheap?
  - jstarfish 4y ago
    > being very sensitive about real or perceived aggressions from men. Perhaps justified, but now it means a small misstep or failure to walk the line can be costly in a social sense. Not at all justified. Crying victim over vague aggressions is as pathologically toxic and sexist as it gets. They can't even be bothered to make an actual false accusation they can later be held accountable for, it's just "waaah, there's a man here who's not behaving the way -I- want them to. Minions, attack!" It's regressed so badly, any sort of attempt to hold this subset of women accountable for their own behavior is met with them trying to rile up a mob against you as they publicly squawk about you being vaguely "aggressive." The point is to intimidate male targets (legitimate or not) into compliance and silence. It's not justified, it's female-perpetrated abuse (DARVO is passive aggression). Not a fun time to be a parent or teacher with any sort of legal responsibility for this demographic; there is absolutely no support for custodians because everybody has been conditioned to uncritically associate all men with abuse and all women with victimhood. God help you if you're a male victim of anything, because nobody else will! IME: In a recent workplace violence complaint, a female employee played this card against a male manager who was "aggressive" in giving her a negative performance review for job abandonment (ironically, this wasn't a younger employee). She later stole thousands of dollars of equipment and quit.

throwaway1492 4y ago

The reality is that young men have always been “optional” in society. Biology looms large. Women seek to mate with the most high status males, evidenced by the fraction of men who get the majority of the “action” on dating apps and in life. Thus throughout history we’ve died in the wars and otherwise exist in the margins. An example of the desparity to me is the concept “mansplaining” woke culture disparages. Some women (and others) see a man explaining something as condescension. Whereas I’ve always been grateful that anyone would take the time to educate or otherwise try to share information and gasp, try to help me?! I believe this reflects a fundamental difference in experience worth reflecting on.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago
>Women seek to mate with the most high status males, evidenced by the fraction of men who get the majority of the “action” on dating apps and in life. I don't think you can really extrapolate to all of human history from a time when birth control is widely available.
- MagicMoonlight 4y ago
  They’ve done DNA anaylsis before and it was something like 13% of men in history successfully reproduced before civilisation enforced monogamy. Like how most male pack animals don’t get to reproduce.
  - tzs 4y ago
    > something like 13% of men in history successfully reproduced before civilisation enforced monogamy Note that doesn't necessarily mean only 13% of men were having sex. A woman could have sex with a 2000 different men over the course of 20 years and only at most less than 40 of those 2000 men could reproduce as a result of those couplings.
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    do you have this point when "civilization" enforced monogamy? I would think the explanation was more that Og the big violent caveman took all the women and clubbed any one who got to close which is very close to what mating has looked like in lots of human history. Men locking up the women to mate with - harems etc. - is not quite the same as "Women seek to mate"

nieksand 4y ago

I find it fascinating that this article only calls for young men to change their behavior but demands nothing of young women.

antihero 4y ago
It isn't their problem?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
mseepgood 4y ago
It's them who want something so it's on them to change.
- icare_1er 4y ago
  Does that logic work for Blacks for instance ?
  - igetspam 4y ago
    What do you think black people want that is impacted by their behavior?
  - geysersam 4y ago
    If you want something that you have a right to, other people have to change. Not being discriminated is not a "nice to have", it's a human right. Sex with attractive women on the other hand is definitely not a human right. Is it just me who finds it ridiculous that this has to be spelled out?
    - kreetx 4y ago
      I find it funny as well. I guess sex can be considered a human right in a certain way: no third party should be able to stop a consenting group of people to having sex. While this is the wrong definition: another person should have sex with me. This latter definition often seems to be the taken meaning of "sex is a human right" and seems to be interpreted that way to advance the interest of that particular person saying it.

BenGosub 4y ago

[flagged]

emptyfile 4y ago
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alluro2 4y ago
Some ways that might be true I can think of are if you are someone who doesn't build any emotional connection to the other person whatsoever, and always just "do sex" your way, without much of the other person's involvement. Otherwise, strong disagree, as emotional involvement, which depends on so much more than if someone is "higher than 6", and the dynamic of pleasure of getting, and of giving, which highly depends on the other person, are 2 factors I'd say far outweight physical appearance. Even without you as a factor, sex with a 10 can be very lousy, while sex with a funny, caring and passionate 5 can be out of this world.
- BenGosub 4y ago
  Well, in almost every case, first there's bonding and building of a connection, but for me and I think the majority, the physical attraction plays an important part. The grade "6" is relative and the judgement will vary between individuals.
- majkinetor 4y ago
  A frontend influences bonding disproportionally just initially. With more time passing, one may be more influenced by other qualities of the person. Hence, frontend 10 can be very losy and frontend 5 can be out of this world.
igetspam 4y ago
I think most women would agree that being single is far more interesting than interacting with men who rank them numerically.
- BenGosub 4y ago

mrkeen 4y ago

> Faced with the choice between an energy-intensive, highly competitive dating environment and the low-effort rewards of porn, young men appear to be taking the path of least resistance. If young men are dropping out of the competition and resorting to porn instead, then who's staying in the dating environment to keep it competitive? With all those porn dropouts, I should have an easy time dating, right?

tsukikage 4y ago
Dates Georg is an outlier and may be ignored.
Whinner 4y ago
Older men who are not in gen z.
aeternum 4y ago
Thinking about it in terms of graph theory helps. Society is generally much more connected due to social media and dating apps. Even if there are proportionally the same percentage of highly desirable guys, those guys are now much more accessible to females.
Melchizedek 4y ago
Very attractive men dating multiple women.

trekkie1024 4y ago

As a complement, I found this piece on the topic quite insightful and well researched: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-young-men-are-single-most-young-women-are-not/ https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo...

aaron695 4y ago

[dead]

NalNezumi 4y ago

The article comes off as slightly condescending; even as I'm 32 and just above the "Young men" threshold (<30) Some of the thing mentioned, such as young women not looking for emotional attachment as much might be true, but what about >30 women? My early 20s, online dating era romantic life was miserable; it made me feel completely worthless and that's a sentiment A LOT of young men get from those dating apps. I simply gave up, which was a good choice for a poor, stressed out and anxious engineering student. However, around 28 and forward this drastically changed; and anyone above 30 can probably recall how the dynamic switches around this age group; men get more comfortable about themselves and women realizes that they're competing against people younger than them (which is a group growing every year). If family is a desire then that also add a sense of urgency So suddenly (assuming you've put some work in) the dating (and sex) life becomes a balanced game. This is ofc affected by other factors such as culture and demographics, which is closely tied to locations. But people have moved country and cities for all form of opportunities (including mating) so this is a way easier problem to solve, if one prioritizes it. People already get married and have kids later, and have for a while. Only focusing on <30 males seems like a scope very useless to analyze the issue, if not from the negativa mental health consequences this have for young men

geysersam 4y ago
Yes，part of the explanation is probably that women mature a bit earlier than men (in terms of romantic and sexual attractivity).
- igetspam 4y ago
  So 20-30 year old men are too immature for women to be interested in them? But women of the same age aren't? So should we keep you'd men out of the work force and out of the general population because they're too immature to interact with more reasoned beings? Do you really think that?
  - DicIfTEx 4y ago
    I read this whole thing in Tucker Carlson's voice.

icare_1er 4y ago

It's called "progress".

mikhael28 4y ago
Well, maybe we should learn from history and start a bunch of wars to kill off a bunch of men and make it easier for the survivors? Is that what you want? I prefer 'progress', thank you very much. You, and all your posts on this thread, sound bitter man.

unpopularopp 4y ago

Isn't that a good thing? I see this as a victory sign of feminism. Women no longer have to live their lives as a second class citizens. Marry > have kids > raise them etc. This is not the default path anymore and of course than means a lot of men would end up alone. Just a natural balancing and how things should have always been.

icare_1er 4y ago
If they had "always been that way", by definition, you wouldn't be here, because you (or I, or everyone else) being here is the result of a society producing descendants, which itself is the consequence of a society producing couples.
throwayyy479087 4y ago
This should be higher. What's good for the individual is not always what's good for society. I know a few "young spinsters" but I also know a ton of happy, successful single women.
- jocaal 4y ago
  > What's good for the individual is not always what's good for society. Should we not prioritize the society as a whole, compared to the individual? This is like saying its ok to ignore global warming, because my immediate benefit is much more important than the collective health of society.

amriksohata 4y ago

Because men have easy access to porn, the one thing that helps satisfy one of their core needs without having to pay for a new pair of jeans or meal to take a girl out. Society also expects mean to take up more of what women were expected to do 50-100 years ago, they don't want all that when they can cook on their own and still have their remaining needs met at low cost, low effort.

vegardx 4y ago
How unbelievable sad life must be if you think that you can replace a healthy relationship, and all that comes with it, by cooking your own meals and looking at porn.
- amriksohata 4y ago
  but many do

corbulo 4y ago

"It's the economy, stupid"

myrryr 4y ago
Absol fucking Utley. You don't date if you can't afford to go on a date.

bilqis 4y ago

Probably because of the economy that isolates people and prevents them from actively engaging with each other. Especially if we’re talking USA where quite a big population is stuck in houses/condos separated from everywhere by a car ride. I think isolation became even worse after pandemic and WFH.

hackrnusr 4y ago

A recent Rasmussen poll claims that almost half of blacks are not sure that it is okay to be white. Have to wonder then what percent of women are not sure that is okay to be male, and if this has anything to do with the current "state of our unions" as discussed in the article.

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
The key points at the top of the article state that sexual intimacy is at a 30-year low across genders. And then goes on to say that young men must re-prioritize and attune to the shift in priorities that women have already made. Well ok. That's pretty toxic. Young men can do whatever tf they want, generally speaking. If they want their genes to be passed on they'll find a mate. If they don't find a mate, their genes won't be passed on, thereby resolving the issue anyway.
mikhael28 4y ago
Stop blaming other people, or society, for your own shortcomings. Look in the mirror.
- hackrnusr 4y ago
  Hope you're also telling that to all of the folks who are demanding jobs be set aside for them under the ever-increasing number of DEI initiatives that are being rolled out.
Server6 4y ago
Stop, just stop. That Rasmussen poll is a loaded question framed to make black people appear unreasonable and work up a racist right wing base. It worked Scott Adams up so much he went on a racist tirade and got himself fired. "It's okay to be white" is a slogan historically used by alt-right trolls, the KKK, and miscellaneous Nazi groups. Obviously when polled about overtly racist slogans black people are going to tell Rasmussen to get bent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_okay_to_be_white https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_okay_to_be_white
- 4y ago

myrryr 4y ago

You don't go on dates if you can't afford to go on dates.

LeroyRaz 4y ago

I think the idea that men can focus on skill development to date in a harder market is a valid one, but also misleading. This is because the dating environment for straight men currently is a highly unkind learning environment. (Namely the feedback one gets in the environment is hard to learn from) My understanding is that for a man, getting a move almost right can be worse than not making the move at all, for example attempting to move in for a kiss at almost but not quite the right moment. And errors are currently harshly socially judged. Hence a lot of men, particularly sensitive men who worry about making women uncomfortable, are inexperienced and feel stuck and trapped in that inexperience. I think this unkindness of environment is a societal issue and one that cannot be levied as a failure of young men. Ultimately it is costly for all, men and women, as both would be better of and happier if the men knew what they were doing, and knew how to appeal to women.

aspergsadd 4y ago
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aspergsadd 4y ago

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philonoist 4y ago

As pointed out in other comments, the data is inconsistent once the gravy of opinion is stipped off. This is the common theme of my friends and me(age>30). 1. We get satiated with porn, as noted in this article, but also life size sex toys, friends with benefits and plenty of sex workers. None of them complained how average looking or boring I was, even though I was one 2. An inconsistance with popular stereotype, We get satisfied with emotional relationship and intimacy via blood relatives and friends. The dense networking effects eased me into their personal life before and during the pandemic. Everybody is happy with it. I just had a dinner with my thesis advisor( 6 years back when I was in University), vented my family feuds for hours at length with my close friends, burst out on how silly the office politics were while doing some woodworking with my gym buddies. At the same time, I have deep sense of camaraderie with my colleagues. No one is gay to my knowledge, nor is one socially motivated by being one in such situations. I haven't described my social circle of neighbors who lent me big stash of money in troubling times! 3. We never wanted a woman for a need. I am perfectly alright sleeping alone, waking up alone, eating alone in a big empty house, seeing PDA all day in parties or public, or travelling all alone. I just couldn't come up with a situation of my life where a void or need with a women is to be filled even in social life. Even close family events are not at all a taboo to be presented as single. 4. I knew the hints women were throwing at me, I just couldn't understand why because they could easily have what I have and more. When you want monogamy + marriage + children + family, why judge me and repudiate harshly whenever I clarify my tastes? 5. I get paid good for SV or NY and have advanced degrees myself, but the real game changer was lasting frienships formed at all points of life. The networking effects(as elaborated in 2) led plenty of women to me and me to plenty of women. 6. Is there a research supporting alone men with lonely men? Like deteriorating mental health?

DiscourseFan 4y ago

My experience as a single young man in my early to mid 20s is that I never have time for a relationship, and even if I do I'm not well-established enough socially to take one or pursue one, if I get involved with someone now I might have to move for work within a few months, and it takes a lot of time and effort to get into a relationship which I can't afford to invest. Also, young women today are very unapproachable, I've been bullied and socially ostracized for showing interest in girls. Otherwise I have to meet women at bars which almost never results in anyone getting laid because the women are scared to go home with you, having just met you for the first time. Dating apps are basically a scam, they feed off of your anxiety, and they don't usually result in sexual fulfillment. I've learned that the best way to attract young women is to treat them like complete shit, ignore them, be mean and insulting to them. But I don't want to hurt anyone and most young men probably feel the same way. But all the ones I know who get laid regularly are shitty to women in some respect, and it feels like, as a man, if you try to be nice you'll just get walked all over.

r_singh 4y ago

It's the same for all animals boys. A hornbill couple living near my house got separated, I'm guessing one of them passed away (sad I know). So I googled to see how long the next one will live and take to find a mate and here's what I found: "Females find a new male within as few as three weeks. Males, however, tend to wait until the following fall or winter" from https://www.audubon.org/news/till-death-do-them-part-8-birds-mate-life https://www.audubon.org/news/till-death-do-them-part-8-birds...

bsnnkv 4y ago

I like to think that I'm not too trapped in my own bubble, but then an article like this comes along and I read the aggregated comments[1], and I realize how small my own field of view of society actually is. [1]: https://kulli.sh/search?q=https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-state-of-our-unions/202302/why-are-so-many-young-men-single-and-sexless https://kulli.sh/search?q=https://www.psychologytoday.com/in...