5 ms·

Can I ask what symptoms you had as a skinny / sporty individual with sleep apnea?

diob 4y ago
Needing 11-12 hours of sleep a night, frequent dreams of drowning or not being able to breath, daily headaches, falling asleep no matter how much you wish to remain awake (such as during school lecture or driving). . . And if you can, have your partner watch you sleep. Mine was what did it for me, she said I worried her half to death, and thought one day she would wake up to find me dead (I frequently would stop breathing, then suddenly gasp awake, and of course, I snored like a monster).
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  My boss has this, he is 35 and not fat at all. His father died from heart attack when he was young. Poor sleep (more like never enough), for some probably unrelated reason got much worse during covid. Always a bit tired, always subpar with physical workouts, but never as extreme as falling asleep when you don't want to. Mentally working on maybe 50%, but he is super smart so still plenty of room. He snored according to his exwife. He went for tests, first time doctors thought machine was broken, his readings on apnea were off the charts. Second test confirmed it. Worst case they had seen, now has machine for sleeping and feels 100% better on everything. He believes his father had the same and its what killed him. Internal organs getting hammered over years, especially heart.
Llamamoe 4y ago
Either sleepy or tired-but-wired feeling. Reflux. Mouth breathing during sleep(dry/stinky mouth), jerking awake while falling asleep, waking up with a headache, breathless or more tired than you went to sleep. Bruxism. ADHD-like and memory problems. Low blood pressure with cold extremities. Nightmares.
- findthewords 4y ago
  I've been dealing with similar problems for a few years now, ever since all my wisdom teeth were removed.
  - spirit557 4y ago
    I have wondered if children's diets precipipate this problem. Because so many kids grow up with varying levels of processsed or pre-digested foods (pulverized fruit pouches, not enough crunchy whole foods that require chewing etc) the jaw does not develop fully - so wisdom teeth removals and orthodontics for expansion seems like standard of care nowadays - but really it should not be that way. These cases should be rare but instead they are assumed common and normal. I quick search about this shows there is a relationship but I havent looked much into the details.
    - m_dupont 4y ago
      Idk why this is getting downvoted. There's a book called 'Breath' by james nestor where he devotes a lot of time to this theory. The book itself is mixed in terms of scientific quality but I found the stuff about diet influencing face shape to be very convincing. If your mouth doesnt grow properly then your airways will also be too narrow and you will have obstructed breathing.
    - dsego 4y ago
      Genetics, lack of breast feeding, soft foods, etc probably influence poor jaw development. Also mouth breathing due to allergies and nasal blockages, bad tongue placement, probably other factors. My snoring improved a lot in adult years when I learned to keep my mouth closed and breath through my nose. My tongue position was so bad that an ent suggested tongue ablation, but instead I learned to deliberately thrust my tongue against my palate so it doesn't collapse back. It's difficult because in childhood I basically learned to mouth breathe because my nose was always blocked. That probably caused a lot of my problems with cavities and poor jaw growth. I was also bottle fed mushy foods for the first few years, instead of having more solid foods. I did use a night palatal expander as a kid, but wasn't too consistent in turning the key and my parents weren't really persistent with it.
- _2uwr 4y ago
  I'd look into your diet. Calcium is a massive stimulant when it combines with the catecholamines. Omega 3's lower osteoclasts which release calcium from the bones unfortunately the western diet is high in omega 6's which will kill you slowly and contribute to poor health outcomes over a few decades. If you increase your omega-3's, your neutrophils will increase in size and B12 helps prevent neutrophils from hyper segmenting, which means a better quality of neutrophils. As vitamin C is stored in neutrophils, making it a highly toxic environment for pathgoens, your vitamin C levels will also increase. High vitamin C helps increase the iron content in the body, and Iron based Reactive Oxygen Species (FeROS) generate the most amount of heat in the body, which is why we feel warmer as kids compared to elderly people. Vit K2-MK4 can also help reduce calcium from the bloodstream, I take 5mg of this before bed and sleep very well, better than benzodiazepines, anti-histamines targeting the receptors in the brain which block the feedback look that affects sleep, and other herbal sleep remedies. If you are aware of the concept of having a glass milk and biscuit before bed, this is because casomorphine in casein in cows milk constitutes about 80%-90% of the protein in cows milk, and casomorphine is a biologically active opioid peptide very similar to morphine! Tyrosine found in food, like cheese can act as a stimulate, especially if your copper intake is high, which could explain why the RDA for copper has recently been lowered even though copper is needed to make some interleukins which target a wide range of cancers! Tyrosine can make noradrenaline in the brain, a stimulant, which could explain the idea that eating cheese gives people nightmares. When Tyrosine is combined with Cysteine, it improves the mucous membranes so could help reduce your dry stinky mouth, the two make pheomelanin, which is better than just tyrosine on its own which makes eumelanin, although both an an antioxidant effect in the brain. Thats just an outline of some of the things that can happen in your body when you eat, but some chemicals are better taken when you wake up (copper, tyrosine, cooked English breakfast), some are better taken when you want to go to sleep (carbs, tryptophan). I mention carbs and tryptophan, because tryptophan is blocked or crowded out by about 5 or 6 other amino acids at the blood brain barrier which reduces the ability to get serotonin and melatonin precursors into the brain. The Kynurenic pathway which converts about 95% of tryptophan into about < 10% of nicotinic acid, at night is a good way of increasing your growth hormone release, because nicotinic acid increases growth hormone, but fat blunts this response, hence carbs at night. Growth hormone, increases the number of neutrophils, again aiding a healthy immune system, whilst you get good quality sleep. Also remember that RDA's should be viewed as the minimum recommended amount for a maintenance dose of you are considered healthy. GP's never ask about people's diets, because they prescribe licenced drugs, where any liability falls back on the drug company, and most people don't have the resource to fight big business as they generally have met the legal requirements laid out in law. Not saying all drugs are bad, but I think we underestimate the importance of diet and how the food has changed over the last few decades to get us to eat more!
- bick_nyers 4y ago
  I've rationalized that this is a combination of getting older, ADHD, and childhood trauma. Will have to look more into apnea.
  - soiler 4y ago
    It could be all of the above. I was diagnosed with "mild" sleep apnea and a CPAP hasn't really made an improvement on my day-to-day. The main difference is that occasionally I used to wake up feeling completely hung over and near death, and now that no longer happens if I'm using my CPAP. Most days, I am still tired - I am learning that is probably due to depression/anxiety (working on treatment now), ADHD (can't treat it until the former is stable), and poor stress management (undiagnosed autistic kid with zero social/emotional support).
    - Llamamoe 4y ago
      The problem with CPAP is that it prevents full airway collapse and apneas very effectively, but often just converts them into subtler collapse ending with arousals. It also introduces its own disruption through expiratory resistance, reducing arterial CO2, patient-ventilator asynchrony if you're using any EPR or bilevel features, etc... bleh.
    - pareidolia 4y ago
      CPAP doesn't always provide adequate treatment. Some reading: https://web.archive.org/web/20211006015015/https://sleepbreathe.org/asv-and-bilevel-therapy-for-sdb-with-ifl/ https://web.archive.org/web/20211006015015/https://sleepbrea... and a webinar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1321&v=Syv7YcHbTCI https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1321&v=Syv7YcHbTCI
  - Llamamoe 4y ago
    I actually have a write-up on a pet theory that a substantial proportion of ADHD cases are likely undiagnosed non-apneic sleep disordered breathing: https://gist.github.com/Asmageddon/4a952260c0fc9875f477d68136d5e164 https://gist.github.com/Asmageddon/4a952260c0fc9875f477d6813...
- moogly 4y ago
  > Low blood pressure Low blood pressure for UARS, but high blood pressure with OSAS.
  - Llamamoe 4y ago
    Traditional OSA as found in elderly/obese people yes. But a lot of young people are still on the UARS side of symptom presentation even when they cross the threshold for OSA.

diob 4y ago

Needing 11-12 hours of sleep a night, frequent dreams of drowning or not being able to breath, daily headaches, falling asleep no matter how much you wish to remain awake (such as during school lecture or driving). . . And if you can, have your partner watch you sleep. Mine was what did it for me, she said I worried her half to death, and thought one day she would wake up to find me dead (I frequently would stop breathing, then suddenly gasp awake, and of course, I snored like a monster).

saiya-jin 4y ago
My boss has this, he is 35 and not fat at all. His father died from heart attack when he was young. Poor sleep (more like never enough), for some probably unrelated reason got much worse during covid. Always a bit tired, always subpar with physical workouts, but never as extreme as falling asleep when you don't want to. Mentally working on maybe 50%, but he is super smart so still plenty of room. He snored according to his exwife. He went for tests, first time doctors thought machine was broken, his readings on apnea were off the charts. Second test confirmed it. Worst case they had seen, now has machine for sleeping and feels 100% better on everything. He believes his father had the same and its what killed him. Internal organs getting hammered over years, especially heart.

Llamamoe 4y ago

Either sleepy or tired-but-wired feeling. Reflux. Mouth breathing during sleep(dry/stinky mouth), jerking awake while falling asleep, waking up with a headache, breathless or more tired than you went to sleep. Bruxism. ADHD-like and memory problems. Low blood pressure with cold extremities. Nightmares.

findthewords 4y ago
I've been dealing with similar problems for a few years now, ever since all my wisdom teeth were removed.
- spirit557 4y ago
  I have wondered if children's diets precipipate this problem. Because so many kids grow up with varying levels of processsed or pre-digested foods (pulverized fruit pouches, not enough crunchy whole foods that require chewing etc) the jaw does not develop fully - so wisdom teeth removals and orthodontics for expansion seems like standard of care nowadays - but really it should not be that way. These cases should be rare but instead they are assumed common and normal. I quick search about this shows there is a relationship but I havent looked much into the details.
  - m_dupont 4y ago
    Idk why this is getting downvoted. There's a book called 'Breath' by james nestor where he devotes a lot of time to this theory. The book itself is mixed in terms of scientific quality but I found the stuff about diet influencing face shape to be very convincing. If your mouth doesnt grow properly then your airways will also be too narrow and you will have obstructed breathing.
  - dsego 4y ago
    Genetics, lack of breast feeding, soft foods, etc probably influence poor jaw development. Also mouth breathing due to allergies and nasal blockages, bad tongue placement, probably other factors. My snoring improved a lot in adult years when I learned to keep my mouth closed and breath through my nose. My tongue position was so bad that an ent suggested tongue ablation, but instead I learned to deliberately thrust my tongue against my palate so it doesn't collapse back. It's difficult because in childhood I basically learned to mouth breathe because my nose was always blocked. That probably caused a lot of my problems with cavities and poor jaw growth. I was also bottle fed mushy foods for the first few years, instead of having more solid foods. I did use a night palatal expander as a kid, but wasn't too consistent in turning the key and my parents weren't really persistent with it.
_2uwr 4y ago
I'd look into your diet. Calcium is a massive stimulant when it combines with the catecholamines. Omega 3's lower osteoclasts which release calcium from the bones unfortunately the western diet is high in omega 6's which will kill you slowly and contribute to poor health outcomes over a few decades. If you increase your omega-3's, your neutrophils will increase in size and B12 helps prevent neutrophils from hyper segmenting, which means a better quality of neutrophils. As vitamin C is stored in neutrophils, making it a highly toxic environment for pathgoens, your vitamin C levels will also increase. High vitamin C helps increase the iron content in the body, and Iron based Reactive Oxygen Species (FeROS) generate the most amount of heat in the body, which is why we feel warmer as kids compared to elderly people. Vit K2-MK4 can also help reduce calcium from the bloodstream, I take 5mg of this before bed and sleep very well, better than benzodiazepines, anti-histamines targeting the receptors in the brain which block the feedback look that affects sleep, and other herbal sleep remedies. If you are aware of the concept of having a glass milk and biscuit before bed, this is because casomorphine in casein in cows milk constitutes about 80%-90% of the protein in cows milk, and casomorphine is a biologically active opioid peptide very similar to morphine! Tyrosine found in food, like cheese can act as a stimulate, especially if your copper intake is high, which could explain why the RDA for copper has recently been lowered even though copper is needed to make some interleukins which target a wide range of cancers! Tyrosine can make noradrenaline in the brain, a stimulant, which could explain the idea that eating cheese gives people nightmares. When Tyrosine is combined with Cysteine, it improves the mucous membranes so could help reduce your dry stinky mouth, the two make pheomelanin, which is better than just tyrosine on its own which makes eumelanin, although both an an antioxidant effect in the brain. Thats just an outline of some of the things that can happen in your body when you eat, but some chemicals are better taken when you wake up (copper, tyrosine, cooked English breakfast), some are better taken when you want to go to sleep (carbs, tryptophan). I mention carbs and tryptophan, because tryptophan is blocked or crowded out by about 5 or 6 other amino acids at the blood brain barrier which reduces the ability to get serotonin and melatonin precursors into the brain. The Kynurenic pathway which converts about 95% of tryptophan into about < 10% of nicotinic acid, at night is a good way of increasing your growth hormone release, because nicotinic acid increases growth hormone, but fat blunts this response, hence carbs at night. Growth hormone, increases the number of neutrophils, again aiding a healthy immune system, whilst you get good quality sleep. Also remember that RDA's should be viewed as the minimum recommended amount for a maintenance dose of you are considered healthy. GP's never ask about people's diets, because they prescribe licenced drugs, where any liability falls back on the drug company, and most people don't have the resource to fight big business as they generally have met the legal requirements laid out in law. Not saying all drugs are bad, but I think we underestimate the importance of diet and how the food has changed over the last few decades to get us to eat more!
bick_nyers 4y ago
I've rationalized that this is a combination of getting older, ADHD, and childhood trauma. Will have to look more into apnea.
- soiler 4y ago
  It could be all of the above. I was diagnosed with "mild" sleep apnea and a CPAP hasn't really made an improvement on my day-to-day. The main difference is that occasionally I used to wake up feeling completely hung over and near death, and now that no longer happens if I'm using my CPAP. Most days, I am still tired - I am learning that is probably due to depression/anxiety (working on treatment now), ADHD (can't treat it until the former is stable), and poor stress management (undiagnosed autistic kid with zero social/emotional support).
  - Llamamoe 4y ago
    The problem with CPAP is that it prevents full airway collapse and apneas very effectively, but often just converts them into subtler collapse ending with arousals. It also introduces its own disruption through expiratory resistance, reducing arterial CO2, patient-ventilator asynchrony if you're using any EPR or bilevel features, etc... bleh.
  - pareidolia 4y ago
    CPAP doesn't always provide adequate treatment. Some reading: https://web.archive.org/web/20211006015015/https://sleepbreathe.org/asv-and-bilevel-therapy-for-sdb-with-ifl/ https://web.archive.org/web/20211006015015/https://sleepbrea... and a webinar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1321&v=Syv7YcHbTCI https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1321&v=Syv7YcHbTCI
- Llamamoe 4y ago
  I actually have a write-up on a pet theory that a substantial proportion of ADHD cases are likely undiagnosed non-apneic sleep disordered breathing: https://gist.github.com/Asmageddon/4a952260c0fc9875f477d68136d5e164 https://gist.github.com/Asmageddon/4a952260c0fc9875f477d6813...
moogly 4y ago
> Low blood pressure Low blood pressure for UARS, but high blood pressure with OSAS.
- Llamamoe 4y ago
  Traditional OSA as found in elderly/obese people yes. But a lot of young people are still on the UARS side of symptom presentation even when they cross the threshold for OSA.