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Really troubling statistics if true. I suspect the lockdown has exacerbated this. Frankly I worry for my own young children. I almost wish there was a place to

Really troubling statistics if true. I suspect the lockdown has exacerbated this. Frankly I worry for my own young children. I almost wish there was a place to live where there was little to no social media, no chronic cell phone addiction, people out in nature, together, socializing, cooperating.

amir734jj 4y ago
Exactly. I also think increase in house prices, cost of living and lack of free time also contributed to this.
granshaw 4y ago
Not a comfortable thing to say, but this is one reason I’m glad my kid is a daughter and not a son If the dating game is already like this now, it’s scary thinking about how it’ll be 18 years from now
- erklik 4y ago
  > Not a comfortable thing to say, but this is one reason I’m glad my kid is a daughter and not a son I am missing something here... why? If the rate of single men in the US looking for a date has dropped, wouldn't a similar number (assuming majority straight relationships and monogamous pairings) of women be also single?
  - User23 4y ago
    It means that young women are increasingly able to exercise their preference for dating high status men, who are on average older.
  - granshaw 4y ago
    No, men aren’t looking for dates cause online dating has made it really brutal for them and allowed women to be more choosy It’s not by choice
    - erklik 4y ago
      > No, men aren’t looking for dates cause online dating has made it really brutal for them and allowed women to be more choosy Isn't the result the same? More people are single? Or are we saying that more men have polyamorous relationships?
      - justinclift 4y ago
        > Or are we saying that more men have polyamorous relationships? Seems to be this one.
    - t-3 4y ago
      Nah, it's by choice for many of us. I have no problem getting sex or charming women, and throughout my 20s had a bunch of fun with many women. I just don't care to do it anymore. I would rather spend my time learning and building than socializing, stressing, and dressing. Mostly I put this down to getting older, but a big part is just coming to terms with myself and how that differs from societal expectations. I've become comfortable in my own skin, so no longer seek validation of my manhood through sex and friends and money.
      - granshaw 4y ago
        There are always exceptions to the rule
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    Currently that subset is dating the same men, while thinking they are monogamous The older men they are dating are not only dating younger women, or just one younger woman I can see that continuing
- nicenewtemp84 4y ago
  Take it from a serial dater male with great success on tinder/bumble.. the lives of many women is substantially worse than even guys that can't get a date. Unless you do a great job explaining the purpose of dating (courting?), There is a very high chance she'll simply become the temporary play thing of dozens of men. And being smart and well educated seems to have basically little to do with it.. I know many more married hair dressers than I do girls in tech. And beyond that... Many that ARE married are basically angry at life because they settled and are not sexually attracted to their husbands even. I almost thing men have it easier.. which you can verify for yourself if you look up depression stats and prescription stats.
  - amir734jj 4y ago
    That's an another angle I haven't thought about. Thank you for sharing.
    - uwagar 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - amir734jj 4y ago
        Basically yes.
      - anovikov 4y ago
        It only depends on how good advances in antibiotics will be...
      - nicenewtemp84 4y ago
        I was not saying that. I was saying that just having a girl doesn't automatically put things on easy mode for her (or you as a parent) because girls have their own set of challenges they didn't face just a generation or two ago.
        uwagar 4y ago
- JesusLovesEwe 4y ago
  If you think the situation is any better for young women, you're in for a shock. From where I'm sitting, the propaganda targeting women is far, far more pervasive and destructive. Everything about their relationships - the why, when, who and how - is undermined in an alarming majority of our institutions. Date many and often with no inhibitions, "have fun", don't get "tied down", delay marriage and family or abstain altogether, date men with little in common, date women, prioritise career, kids are disgusting and expensive, kids threaten your Instagram physique, pointless travelling > family, make easy money on OnlyFans, there's the psychological impact (distortion of standards) of having easy access to sex with very high quality men who would never "settle" for them in marriage, and do all of this with reckless abandon because if anyone is not enthusiastically supportive then the issue is with them not you and your sordid past. It's little wonder so many women wake up one day, they're 38, single, childless, and depressed. The antidepressant usage among Western women is shocking. I would argue that a very large contributing factor in our young men's disillusionment with dating is a product of the damage being done to our young women.
  - amir734jj 4y ago
    > I would argue that a very large contributing factor in our young men's disillusionment with dating is a product of the damage being done to our young women Can you please elaborate more on this conclusion? I agree with everything you said until that statement.
  - anovikov 4y ago
    OK delaying marriage and family is normal for all countries and all cultures, there's nothing to be done about it and it has nothing to do with Tinder let alone with OnlyFans lol, it's simply because age of maturity has increased due to higher impact of career and education. Of all things you said, i agree only with the "distortion of standards" thing. Again, it's global, has nothing to do with the U.S. or "West" in general, happens everywhere - even more so in more vertical, traditional Asian cultures (with corresponding decline of birthrates). Yet, it's a problem i can see no solution for unless single parenthood is completely normalised (which might require elimination of religion).
- anovikov 4y ago
  But well, for a son it will mean "having a hard time getting laid" (which is a good thing for a man because it gives motivation to achieve things). For a woman it means "being utterly unable to get married unless they sign for a man who is considered undateable/invisible and a shame be next to from the standpoint of 95% of their women peers". That is, average man, for an average woman. A man can be hooking up with many girls but he can only marry one at a time. Which means, it's a double-edged sword: Tinder raised standards of what an acceptable male looks like, making it equally harder for men to get laid as for women to get married.
forgetfreeman 4y ago
You literally just described the Amish.
- klipt 4y ago
  With their much higher fertility rate, Amish society will probably outlast ours.
  - labster 4y ago
    I know people seem to see social factors in declining birth rate, but I mainly see economic causes. As population reduces, housing and employment become more available, meaning more people can afford to have children. A century ago more children meant more income, but now it means less. Reduce the marginal cost of children and demand will increase.
    - amir734jj 4y ago
      Exactly. No one can afford a house and with inflation and rise in cost of living it will get worse. A lot worse.
    - klipt 4y ago
      That sounds plausible, but almost everywhere in the world, wealth and fertility seem to be negatively correlated. Poor people have kids early and have more, while rich people delay and have few or none.
      - fiso64 4y ago
        I'm wondering if these statistics adjust for age. Wealthier people are usually older and therefore less fertile. Also, there may be selection bias at play here since whoever is more wealthy is more likely to prioritize their career over family & children.
        labster 4y ago
        Comments like these remind me of people who distrust climate models telling me (a meteorologist) what the climate model ignores, which of course it doesn’t ignore because scientists aren’t morons. There is a lot of questionable statistics in the social sciences, but I am 1000% sure that people studying fertility account for age.

amir734jj 4y ago

Exactly. I also think increase in house prices, cost of living and lack of free time also contributed to this.

granshaw 4y ago

Not a comfortable thing to say, but this is one reason I’m glad my kid is a daughter and not a son If the dating game is already like this now, it’s scary thinking about how it’ll be 18 years from now

erklik 4y ago
> Not a comfortable thing to say, but this is one reason I’m glad my kid is a daughter and not a son I am missing something here... why? If the rate of single men in the US looking for a date has dropped, wouldn't a similar number (assuming majority straight relationships and monogamous pairings) of women be also single?
- User23 4y ago
  It means that young women are increasingly able to exercise their preference for dating high status men, who are on average older.
- granshaw 4y ago
  No, men aren’t looking for dates cause online dating has made it really brutal for them and allowed women to be more choosy It’s not by choice
  - erklik 4y ago
    > No, men aren’t looking for dates cause online dating has made it really brutal for them and allowed women to be more choosy Isn't the result the same? More people are single? Or are we saying that more men have polyamorous relationships?
    - justinclift 4y ago
      > Or are we saying that more men have polyamorous relationships? Seems to be this one.
  - t-3 4y ago
    Nah, it's by choice for many of us. I have no problem getting sex or charming women, and throughout my 20s had a bunch of fun with many women. I just don't care to do it anymore. I would rather spend my time learning and building than socializing, stressing, and dressing. Mostly I put this down to getting older, but a big part is just coming to terms with myself and how that differs from societal expectations. I've become comfortable in my own skin, so no longer seek validation of my manhood through sex and friends and money.
    - granshaw 4y ago
      There are always exceptions to the rule
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  Currently that subset is dating the same men, while thinking they are monogamous The older men they are dating are not only dating younger women, or just one younger woman I can see that continuing
nicenewtemp84 4y ago
Take it from a serial dater male with great success on tinder/bumble.. the lives of many women is substantially worse than even guys that can't get a date. Unless you do a great job explaining the purpose of dating (courting?), There is a very high chance she'll simply become the temporary play thing of dozens of men. And being smart and well educated seems to have basically little to do with it.. I know many more married hair dressers than I do girls in tech. And beyond that... Many that ARE married are basically angry at life because they settled and are not sexually attracted to their husbands even. I almost thing men have it easier.. which you can verify for yourself if you look up depression stats and prescription stats.
- amir734jj 4y ago
  That's an another angle I haven't thought about. Thank you for sharing.
  - uwagar 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - amir734jj 4y ago
      Basically yes.
    - anovikov 4y ago
      It only depends on how good advances in antibiotics will be...
    - nicenewtemp84 4y ago
      I was not saying that. I was saying that just having a girl doesn't automatically put things on easy mode for her (or you as a parent) because girls have their own set of challenges they didn't face just a generation or two ago.
      - uwagar 4y ago
JesusLovesEwe 4y ago
If you think the situation is any better for young women, you're in for a shock. From where I'm sitting, the propaganda targeting women is far, far more pervasive and destructive. Everything about their relationships - the why, when, who and how - is undermined in an alarming majority of our institutions. Date many and often with no inhibitions, "have fun", don't get "tied down", delay marriage and family or abstain altogether, date men with little in common, date women, prioritise career, kids are disgusting and expensive, kids threaten your Instagram physique, pointless travelling > family, make easy money on OnlyFans, there's the psychological impact (distortion of standards) of having easy access to sex with very high quality men who would never "settle" for them in marriage, and do all of this with reckless abandon because if anyone is not enthusiastically supportive then the issue is with them not you and your sordid past. It's little wonder so many women wake up one day, they're 38, single, childless, and depressed. The antidepressant usage among Western women is shocking. I would argue that a very large contributing factor in our young men's disillusionment with dating is a product of the damage being done to our young women.
- amir734jj 4y ago
  > I would argue that a very large contributing factor in our young men's disillusionment with dating is a product of the damage being done to our young women Can you please elaborate more on this conclusion? I agree with everything you said until that statement.
- anovikov 4y ago
  OK delaying marriage and family is normal for all countries and all cultures, there's nothing to be done about it and it has nothing to do with Tinder let alone with OnlyFans lol, it's simply because age of maturity has increased due to higher impact of career and education. Of all things you said, i agree only with the "distortion of standards" thing. Again, it's global, has nothing to do with the U.S. or "West" in general, happens everywhere - even more so in more vertical, traditional Asian cultures (with corresponding decline of birthrates). Yet, it's a problem i can see no solution for unless single parenthood is completely normalised (which might require elimination of religion).
anovikov 4y ago
But well, for a son it will mean "having a hard time getting laid" (which is a good thing for a man because it gives motivation to achieve things). For a woman it means "being utterly unable to get married unless they sign for a man who is considered undateable/invisible and a shame be next to from the standpoint of 95% of their women peers". That is, average man, for an average woman. A man can be hooking up with many girls but he can only marry one at a time. Which means, it's a double-edged sword: Tinder raised standards of what an acceptable male looks like, making it equally harder for men to get laid as for women to get married.

forgetfreeman 4y ago

You literally just described the Amish.

klipt 4y ago
With their much higher fertility rate, Amish society will probably outlast ours.
- labster 4y ago
  I know people seem to see social factors in declining birth rate, but I mainly see economic causes. As population reduces, housing and employment become more available, meaning more people can afford to have children. A century ago more children meant more income, but now it means less. Reduce the marginal cost of children and demand will increase.
  - amir734jj 4y ago
    Exactly. No one can afford a house and with inflation and rise in cost of living it will get worse. A lot worse.
  - klipt 4y ago
    That sounds plausible, but almost everywhere in the world, wealth and fertility seem to be negatively correlated. Poor people have kids early and have more, while rich people delay and have few or none.
    - fiso64 4y ago
      I'm wondering if these statistics adjust for age. Wealthier people are usually older and therefore less fertile. Also, there may be selection bias at play here since whoever is more wealthy is more likely to prioritize their career over family & children.
      - labster 4y ago
        Comments like these remind me of people who distrust climate models telling me (a meteorologist) what the climate model ignores, which of course it doesn’t ignore because scientists aren’t morons. There is a lot of questionable statistics in the social sciences, but I am 1000% sure that people studying fertility account for age.