5 ms·

Yes, though they can always make it easy to run a custom rom and rely on the community for (security) updates

lolinder 4y ago
Custom rom support would be helpful for a very niche audience, but it's not something that's going to make a dent in e-waste at all. I'm a pretty tech savvy user who runs Linux on my desktop and I'm too intimidated to try a custom ROM on my phone. The average Nokia customer isn't going to even know it's an option, much less be willing to take the plunge. If Nokia is serious about fighting e-waste they need to provide a longer lifecycle of updates.
- comte7092 4y ago
  People willing to repair their own device is a niche audience as well. If you’re willing to go through the effort of fixing your device, there’s a decent chance you’re willing to flash a custom rom.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    Screens yes, battery no. Or at least changing batteries used to be mainstream. Anyone born before the year 2000 should not be at all intimidated by changing a battery. I can't speak for Gen Z, it's possible they've lost that skill.
    - angry_octet 4y ago
      It's just very expensive. If it becomes affordable they will do it. I remember having spare batteries for my Motorola, and an external battery charger, because charging via the built in would take ages.
    - dlhavema 4y ago
      I remember my Old Samsung's and HTC thunderbolt all have replaceable batteries, as well as the Motorola Droid which was super cool.. Not going to these were the early ones. I think starting with the S8 or so they stopped letting you replace the battery. I'm on pixels now. And my Pixel 6 doesn't have a replaceable battery...
    - jorvi 4y ago
      Replacing the battery used to be just popping off the back cover, sliding out the battery then sliding in a new one. These days it’s a perilous task that requires multiple spudgers and picks, a screen heater, finger acrobatics to make sure you don’t slash or rip any fragile cables, and then you have to wrestle the battery from its adhesive coffin.
      - lolinder 4y ago
        Right, but Nokia supposedly fixed that with this phone.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  iunno, setting up a custom ROM is the first thing I do on any wifi router I buy. Haven't really touched the concept on my phone, but it's totally something I've done for security reasons.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    I can totally see doing it on a router, but I'm scared to do it on a phone because I've heard too many horror stories about banking apps and similar refusing to run if they detect they're running on a rooted phone. I only have a smartphone in order to use all of the apps that people assume you'll be able to install. If a significant percentage of those won't work on a custom ROM, I may as well not have the device at all. (It's entirely possible that my fears are overblown, but that I have them is suggestive of how far from mainstream custom roms are.)
    - alwayslikethis 4y ago
      It's fairly easy to bypass most of these with Magisk modules, like universal safetynet fix.
      - lolinder 4y ago
        That's great, and something that I may eventually consider doing, but that doesn't help the average user who just wants to keep using their perfectly decent phone. Rooting their device and installing a custom rom is complicated enough without having to go through the process of installing extra modules.
    - palata 4y ago
      > but that I have them is suggestive of how far from mainstream custom roms are. Totally. I think ROMs like /e/ OS and CalyxOS are actually getting close to giving the same experience as stock ROMs, though (if you choose a phone that is supported, that it). Let's hope it keeps moving forward! Repairable phones + long term support with custom ROM sounds great IMO!
- pessimizer 4y ago
  If the average user can't handle flashing a custom ROM (which is probably true), they can take it to one of the million phone repair shops and give them $10.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    It's not just a question of flashing it, it's a question of living with it. By all accounts I've read the custom ROM experience is far from seamless: it sounds worse than the Linux desktop currently is, and I wouldn't recommend running Linux to just anyone.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      Custom ROMs work just as well as the ROMs phones are shipped with.
      - paulmd 4y ago
        It's really not uncommon to see ROMs with known bugs like "camera doesn't work" "3.5mm port doesn't work". When I was looking for a phone in 2018 I was looking at the Pixel series and that was the bug list for most of the ROMs at the time - and pixel was basically the best-case scenario that everyone was pointing me at as far as support. It was still in official support at that time but I got burned by my first android phone going EOL within 6 months of when I bought it and I wasn't going to leap again without knowing there were actually ROMs that worked without major feature loss. It probably would have worked out, being a pixel and all, but I specifically ran into bumps on my previous phone (Moto G Falcon) with features being lost on custom ROMs. Eventually I found one that worked OK but that's just not acceptable to lose official support 6 months after purchase and deal with custom ROMs where random shit is broken.
        palata 4y ago
        That's right, and that's why you should choose your phone based on the ROM you want. Of course if you choose a phone that is not supported, it probably won't work well. Try running the Samsung S23 ROM on a Nokia 7 plus and tell me how it goes: that's the same problem. I have been using /e/ OS on a Fairphone for 2 years, and it is absolutely great. I just use it like a normal Android, no need to fiddle with it _at all_. Some apps don't work because I'm de-Googled (no Play Services), but you don't need that (or you can accept that some apps don't work).
- palata 4y ago
  I have been using /e/ OS on a Fairphone for 2 years now. I love it. I would say that the experience is not very far from a stock Android. Most of the issues I have (which is not a lot) are because I'm completely de-Googled, but you don't need that. I really think that there are alternative ROMs today that are great, if your phone is supported. Hopefully repairable phones will be supported (at least Fairphone is great for community support, I find).
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 4y ago
Having to use a custom ROM is the same annoying amount of work as having to upgrade to a new phone every 2-3 years. Because custom ROMs usually update to the latest Android version ASAP, which moves tons of things around all over the OS, and breaks a lot of stuff. It's super annoying to update custom ROMs. And frankly some people just want their phone to work most of the time, not to have the responsibility to install and maintain some pocket-sized server. That's also a reason against using custom ROMs.
open1414 4y ago
Android manufacturers pick a LTS kernel when developing their phone. By the time it is on the market, that kernel version only has 3-4 years left of security updates. Custom roms never upgrade the kernel so you are still vulnerable to bugs that were never backported to your kernel
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Depends on the manufacturer, there are plenty of phones with community updated kernels. Some manufacturers choose to implement hardware support by poorly forking the Linux kernel in ways that make porting those changes to recent kernels hard.
  - open1414 4y ago
    Can you provide a phone with an updated kernel? I have yet to see one on XDA and am really curious
- SparkyMcUnicorn 4y ago
  > Custom roms never upgrade the kernel That's not entirely true. There's plenty that bundle a custom kernel. Browse some device-specific development topics on XDA developers for examples.
  - palata 4y ago
    Aren't projects like PostmarketOS upstreaming many devices? Meaning that you can then update the kernel, right?
    - open1414 4y ago
      PostmarketOS is the mainline Linux kernel and doesn't have all the features that are needed for a proper Android phone. There are a lot of Android userspace drivers that may break with another kernel.
      - 4y ago

Custom rom support would be helpful for a very niche audience, but it's not something that's going to make a dent in e-waste at all. I'm a pretty tech savvy user who runs Linux on my desktop and I'm too intimidated to try a custom ROM on my phone. The average Nokia customer isn't going to even know it's an option, much less be willing to take the plunge. If Nokia is serious about fighting e-waste they need to provide a longer lifecycle of updates.

comte7092 4y ago
People willing to repair their own device is a niche audience as well. If you’re willing to go through the effort of fixing your device, there’s a decent chance you’re willing to flash a custom rom.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Screens yes, battery no. Or at least changing batteries used to be mainstream. Anyone born before the year 2000 should not be at all intimidated by changing a battery. I can't speak for Gen Z, it's possible they've lost that skill.
  - angry_octet 4y ago
    It's just very expensive. If it becomes affordable they will do it. I remember having spare batteries for my Motorola, and an external battery charger, because charging via the built in would take ages.
  - dlhavema 4y ago
    I remember my Old Samsung's and HTC thunderbolt all have replaceable batteries, as well as the Motorola Droid which was super cool.. Not going to these were the early ones. I think starting with the S8 or so they stopped letting you replace the battery. I'm on pixels now. And my Pixel 6 doesn't have a replaceable battery...
  - jorvi 4y ago
    Replacing the battery used to be just popping off the back cover, sliding out the battery then sliding in a new one. These days it’s a perilous task that requires multiple spudgers and picks, a screen heater, finger acrobatics to make sure you don’t slash or rip any fragile cables, and then you have to wrestle the battery from its adhesive coffin.
    - lolinder 4y ago
      Right, but Nokia supposedly fixed that with this phone.
Scoundreller 4y ago
iunno, setting up a custom ROM is the first thing I do on any wifi router I buy. Haven't really touched the concept on my phone, but it's totally something I've done for security reasons.
- lolinder 4y ago
  I can totally see doing it on a router, but I'm scared to do it on a phone because I've heard too many horror stories about banking apps and similar refusing to run if they detect they're running on a rooted phone. I only have a smartphone in order to use all of the apps that people assume you'll be able to install. If a significant percentage of those won't work on a custom ROM, I may as well not have the device at all. (It's entirely possible that my fears are overblown, but that I have them is suggestive of how far from mainstream custom roms are.)
  - alwayslikethis 4y ago
    It's fairly easy to bypass most of these with Magisk modules, like universal safetynet fix.
    - lolinder 4y ago
      That's great, and something that I may eventually consider doing, but that doesn't help the average user who just wants to keep using their perfectly decent phone. Rooting their device and installing a custom rom is complicated enough without having to go through the process of installing extra modules.
  - palata 4y ago
    > but that I have them is suggestive of how far from mainstream custom roms are. Totally. I think ROMs like /e/ OS and CalyxOS are actually getting close to giving the same experience as stock ROMs, though (if you choose a phone that is supported, that it). Let's hope it keeps moving forward! Repairable phones + long term support with custom ROM sounds great IMO!
pessimizer 4y ago
If the average user can't handle flashing a custom ROM (which is probably true), they can take it to one of the million phone repair shops and give them $10.
- lolinder 4y ago
  It's not just a question of flashing it, it's a question of living with it. By all accounts I've read the custom ROM experience is far from seamless: it sounds worse than the Linux desktop currently is, and I wouldn't recommend running Linux to just anyone.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Custom ROMs work just as well as the ROMs phones are shipped with.
    - paulmd 4y ago
      It's really not uncommon to see ROMs with known bugs like "camera doesn't work" "3.5mm port doesn't work". When I was looking for a phone in 2018 I was looking at the Pixel series and that was the bug list for most of the ROMs at the time - and pixel was basically the best-case scenario that everyone was pointing me at as far as support. It was still in official support at that time but I got burned by my first android phone going EOL within 6 months of when I bought it and I wasn't going to leap again without knowing there were actually ROMs that worked without major feature loss. It probably would have worked out, being a pixel and all, but I specifically ran into bumps on my previous phone (Moto G Falcon) with features being lost on custom ROMs. Eventually I found one that worked OK but that's just not acceptable to lose official support 6 months after purchase and deal with custom ROMs where random shit is broken.
      - palata 4y ago
        That's right, and that's why you should choose your phone based on the ROM you want. Of course if you choose a phone that is not supported, it probably won't work well. Try running the Samsung S23 ROM on a Nokia 7 plus and tell me how it goes: that's the same problem. I have been using /e/ OS on a Fairphone for 2 years, and it is absolutely great. I just use it like a normal Android, no need to fiddle with it _at all_. Some apps don't work because I'm de-Googled (no Play Services), but you don't need that (or you can accept that some apps don't work).
palata 4y ago
I have been using /e/ OS on a Fairphone for 2 years now. I love it. I would say that the experience is not very far from a stock Android. Most of the issues I have (which is not a lot) are because I'm completely de-Googled, but you don't need that. I really think that there are alternative ROMs today that are great, if your phone is supported. Hopefully repairable phones will be supported (at least Fairphone is great for community support, I find).

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm 4y ago

Having to use a custom ROM is the same annoying amount of work as having to upgrade to a new phone every 2-3 years. Because custom ROMs usually update to the latest Android version ASAP, which moves tons of things around all over the OS, and breaks a lot of stuff. It's super annoying to update custom ROMs. And frankly some people just want their phone to work most of the time, not to have the responsibility to install and maintain some pocket-sized server. That's also a reason against using custom ROMs.

open1414 4y ago

Android manufacturers pick a LTS kernel when developing their phone. By the time it is on the market, that kernel version only has 3-4 years left of security updates. Custom roms never upgrade the kernel so you are still vulnerable to bugs that were never backported to your kernel

heavyset_go 4y ago
Depends on the manufacturer, there are plenty of phones with community updated kernels. Some manufacturers choose to implement hardware support by poorly forking the Linux kernel in ways that make porting those changes to recent kernels hard.
- open1414 4y ago
  Can you provide a phone with an updated kernel? I have yet to see one on XDA and am really curious
SparkyMcUnicorn 4y ago
> Custom roms never upgrade the kernel That's not entirely true. There's plenty that bundle a custom kernel. Browse some device-specific development topics on XDA developers for examples.
- palata 4y ago
  Aren't projects like PostmarketOS upstreaming many devices? Meaning that you can then update the kernel, right?
  - open1414 4y ago
    PostmarketOS is the mainline Linux kernel and doesn't have all the features that are needed for a proper Android phone. There are a lot of Android userspace drivers that may break with another kernel.
    - 4y ago