4 ms·

Plenty of models that can work with all frequencies, so I am not sure if that's enough of a justification. Anyway, your point reminds me that the my "dream sma

Plenty of models that can work with all frequencies, so I am not sure if that's enough of a justification. Anyway, your point reminds me that the my "dream smartphone" would be one with no cellular connectivity at all. I'm still waiting for some company to start producing a keychain-sized 4G (or 5G) hotspot with an eSIM, which (I hope) would lead to more people asking for the return of the iPod Touch and for something equivalent in the Android/Mobile Linux/Windows world.

cesarb 4y ago
> Anyway, your point reminds me that the my "dream smartphone" would be one with no cellular connectivity at all. You mean a PDA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant)? Modern smartphones are basically a PDA with cellular connectivity (this is more obvious with early smartphones like the Treo 650), so if you take out the cellular connectivity, what you have is once again a PDA.
- happymellon 4y ago
  Personally what I want is a dumb flip phone which can act as a 4/5G hotspot for my 7" tablet. When I'm on the internet, browing maps, reading books, I find a phone screen too small. But I don't want a massive phone. A dumb flip phone that lasts a week on a charge so that I can camp with it, combined with a 7" tablet that I can throw in my bag, for when I want to read, but doesn't need cellular connectivity so that it lasts without spying on me.
- rglullis 4y ago
  I don't think this distinction makes any sense nowadays. A "smartphone without cellular connectivity" is a lot more than a "Personal Digital Assistant". Could a Palm Pilot stream music? Did it have an app store? GPS? Microphone? Could it make VoIP calls? Could it connect with an external modem so that it could work as a softphone?
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    If Palm were to create the Pilot in 2023, it would almost certainly be designed to support all those features, yes.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      Yes, and it wouldn't be marketed as a PDA.
      - yellowapple 4y ago
        Then what would it be marketed as? It's personal, it's digital, and it's an assistant; those things don't go away from adding more features.
        rglullis 4y ago
        A tablet is personal It's digital. It's an assistant. But no one calls them "PDAs"
crispinb 4y ago
> justification An odd term in this context. No-one has to 'justify' not selling their stuff to Americans.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  They do if they're a normal corporation selling an easy-to-ship product in mass quantities.
  - crispinb 4y ago
    Why? Do you suggest the US has intrinsic rights to the goods of other nations?
    - ImHereToVote 4y ago
      I think the point is that if a business is in the money making business. Then it seems kinda stupid not to make money.
      - crispinb 4y ago
        Non-US companies have to justify all their decisions to their owners, but not to random foreign consumers.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      Not a right, and not more than those other nations have the same thing, but otherwise yes because markets. Small entities can do whatever they want but big corporations should have justifications for not selling a thing.
      - crispinb 4y ago
        Non-US corporations, of any size, have no duties towards US residents whatsoever. It's entirely their choice whether or not to enter foreign markets. Americans are not default humans, and they do not decide what products other nations' companies offer them.
int_19h 4y ago
A keychain-sized hotspot would have dismal battery life, though.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Hum, maybe I meant the size of a key fob? It could be a bit thicker, I'd guess it would hold something like ~2000mAh. For just the radio, and for something that would be used only while on the go (otherwise you can use your home/your job connection), why couldn't that work as long as a feature phone, which could go for a week in a single charge?
  - int_19h 4y ago
    In my experience with hotspots on the go, it's having to maintain the WiFi AP that kills their battery fast. Maybe there's a better protocol to run between the hotspot and other devices, although you'd need one that would also allow for 5G speeds.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      If I were serious about designing this, I'd try: - Bluetooth for control/signaling. - Bluetooth for voice audio. - WiFi AP in super reduced Rx/Tx power mode when not charging. The only requirement here is that signal is strong within a 3ft radius from the hotspot, and acceptable on a 6ft radius. It really shouldn't need more than that. - WiFi AP in normal mode when charging. - WiFi AP completely shut-off when the paired device reports that they have access to any other trusted wifi network. My idea here is that for me at least, mobile data is truly a connection of last resort. Almost anywhere I go there is WiFi available. And the places where there isn't, perhaps I simply don't need an always-on fast connection?
happymellon 4y ago
> Plenty of models that can work with all frequencies, so I am not sure if that's enough of a justification. Only some chipsets work with all frequencies and when 90% of the population of the planet all use the same settings why spend the cost to cover the other 10% which would double your chipset costs but would unlikely increase sales. Americans bully each other over the colour of their chat bubbles because apparently not buying iPhone makes you appear poor. There are lots of justifications to avoid increasing costs to try selling to the Americans.
diffeomorphism 4y ago
Aren't those usually USB sticks? E.g. stuff like this: https://www.hardwareschotte.de/tests/Surfsticks https://www.hardwareschotte.de/tests/Surfsticks Sure, having wifi hotspots would be nice, but this way you don't have to worry about batteries.
- rglullis 4y ago
  If I had to plug a surf stick every time on the device to use it as a phone or to connect to the internet via 4G, then of course I'd rather have it integrated with the device already. Wireless connection is not a nice-to-have, it is the key feature.
  - diffeomorphism 4y ago
    Eh, getting the device out of my pocket, turning it on, activating the wireless connection, remembering to charge it every day vs. just plug it in. And on top of that my phone can already give me a hot spot (with bad battery life). Not quite sure I see any big advantage.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      >turning it on, activating the wireless connection. Can be managed by bluetooth LE. > remembering to charge it every day People do it for their smartwatches. Also, making it in a key fob format would lend itself naturally to some nice key holder accessory where you can charge it (wirelessly, even?) or it can have a spring-loaded usb port to charge in your car.

cesarb 4y ago

> Anyway, your point reminds me that the my "dream smartphone" would be one with no cellular connectivity at all. You mean a PDA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant)? Modern smartphones are basically a PDA with cellular connectivity (this is more obvious with early smartphones like the Treo 650), so if you take out the cellular connectivity, what you have is once again a PDA.

happymellon 4y ago
Personally what I want is a dumb flip phone which can act as a 4/5G hotspot for my 7" tablet. When I'm on the internet, browing maps, reading books, I find a phone screen too small. But I don't want a massive phone. A dumb flip phone that lasts a week on a charge so that I can camp with it, combined with a 7" tablet that I can throw in my bag, for when I want to read, but doesn't need cellular connectivity so that it lasts without spying on me.
rglullis 4y ago
I don't think this distinction makes any sense nowadays. A "smartphone without cellular connectivity" is a lot more than a "Personal Digital Assistant". Could a Palm Pilot stream music? Did it have an app store? GPS? Microphone? Could it make VoIP calls? Could it connect with an external modem so that it could work as a softphone?
- yellowapple 4y ago
  If Palm were to create the Pilot in 2023, it would almost certainly be designed to support all those features, yes.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Yes, and it wouldn't be marketed as a PDA.
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      Then what would it be marketed as? It's personal, it's digital, and it's an assistant; those things don't go away from adding more features.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        A tablet is personal It's digital. It's an assistant. But no one calls them "PDAs"

crispinb 4y ago

> justification An odd term in this context. No-one has to 'justify' not selling their stuff to Americans.

Dylan16807 4y ago
They do if they're a normal corporation selling an easy-to-ship product in mass quantities.
- crispinb 4y ago
  Why? Do you suggest the US has intrinsic rights to the goods of other nations?
  - ImHereToVote 4y ago
    I think the point is that if a business is in the money making business. Then it seems kinda stupid not to make money.
    - crispinb 4y ago
      Non-US companies have to justify all their decisions to their owners, but not to random foreign consumers.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Not a right, and not more than those other nations have the same thing, but otherwise yes because markets. Small entities can do whatever they want but big corporations should have justifications for not selling a thing.
    - crispinb 4y ago
      Non-US corporations, of any size, have no duties towards US residents whatsoever. It's entirely their choice whether or not to enter foreign markets. Americans are not default humans, and they do not decide what products other nations' companies offer them.

int_19h 4y ago

A keychain-sized hotspot would have dismal battery life, though.

rglullis 4y ago
Hum, maybe I meant the size of a key fob? It could be a bit thicker, I'd guess it would hold something like ~2000mAh. For just the radio, and for something that would be used only while on the go (otherwise you can use your home/your job connection), why couldn't that work as long as a feature phone, which could go for a week in a single charge?
- int_19h 4y ago
  In my experience with hotspots on the go, it's having to maintain the WiFi AP that kills their battery fast. Maybe there's a better protocol to run between the hotspot and other devices, although you'd need one that would also allow for 5G speeds.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    If I were serious about designing this, I'd try: - Bluetooth for control/signaling. - Bluetooth for voice audio. - WiFi AP in super reduced Rx/Tx power mode when not charging. The only requirement here is that signal is strong within a 3ft radius from the hotspot, and acceptable on a 6ft radius. It really shouldn't need more than that. - WiFi AP in normal mode when charging. - WiFi AP completely shut-off when the paired device reports that they have access to any other trusted wifi network. My idea here is that for me at least, mobile data is truly a connection of last resort. Almost anywhere I go there is WiFi available. And the places where there isn't, perhaps I simply don't need an always-on fast connection?

happymellon 4y ago

> Plenty of models that can work with all frequencies, so I am not sure if that's enough of a justification. Only some chipsets work with all frequencies and when 90% of the population of the planet all use the same settings why spend the cost to cover the other 10% which would double your chipset costs but would unlikely increase sales. Americans bully each other over the colour of their chat bubbles because apparently not buying iPhone makes you appear poor. There are lots of justifications to avoid increasing costs to try selling to the Americans.

diffeomorphism 4y ago

Aren't those usually USB sticks? E.g. stuff like this: https://www.hardwareschotte.de/tests/Surfsticks https://www.hardwareschotte.de/tests/Surfsticks Sure, having wifi hotspots would be nice, but this way you don't have to worry about batteries.

rglullis 4y ago
If I had to plug a surf stick every time on the device to use it as a phone or to connect to the internet via 4G, then of course I'd rather have it integrated with the device already. Wireless connection is not a nice-to-have, it is the key feature.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago
  Eh, getting the device out of my pocket, turning it on, activating the wireless connection, remembering to charge it every day vs. just plug it in. And on top of that my phone can already give me a hot spot (with bad battery life). Not quite sure I see any big advantage.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    >turning it on, activating the wireless connection. Can be managed by bluetooth LE. > remembering to charge it every day People do it for their smartwatches. Also, making it in a key fob format would lend itself naturally to some nice key holder accessory where you can charge it (wirelessly, even?) or it can have a spring-loaded usb port to charge in your car.