4 ms·

Toxic air pollutants in E. Palestine could pose long-term risks, researchers say

42 points by hammock 4y ago

mc32 4y ago
This has become, pardon the expression, a slow-moving train wreck in terms of PR and more importantly, on-the-ground-response from government agencies. The secretary of transportation took pains to downplay its impact, going so far as to take weeks to address the issue officially and more weeks to go and personally take a look at the situation. Industry has been as ham-fisted as well -but that's almost understandable given the conflict of interest. But still, they should have give it the seriousness it deserves. Unintentionally, Pete underlined the lackadaisical attitude when he said, paraphrasing here, hey, no biggie, derailments happen over 2.5 x day. So either the gov is woefully derelict in its duties or... he was trying to minimize the scope of an actual serious incident. I hope what comes out of this is an investigatory commission who will make recommendations to minimize the toxic effect of accidents that will be followed up with actual new regulation.
- NobleLie 4y ago
  Wow. I think the last non negligible accident including vinyl chloride was 2012, and it was ~6x less bulk volume than this one (20k gallons as opposed to 120k) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5776704/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5776704/ And it wasn't managed via a controlled burn. Buttegieg should know that it's not about the number of derailments but the chemicals involved, the volume / mass involved, the conditions of leakage / spillage, environmental spread and finally the chosen response to mmmanage (which sometimes can make the problem worse or trade one problem for another)
  - lockhouse 4y ago
    Why should Buttegieg know that? What qualifications does he have for his job other than his sexual preference and being a presidential candidate that got out of Biden's way?
    - NobleLie 4y ago
      Well I did claim he should know that. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. If he does, that jumps this ship into conspiracy territory (conspiring to belittle those concerned, without evidence) and he doesn't, he should be immediately released from his position due to mental inadequacy (it's bordering common sense) I've heard far dumber things said and no culpability so I imagine nothing to change.
      - mc32 4y ago
        Can you imagine the shakeout that would happen if an AEC commissioner faced with a TMI-like incident were to say, yeah, no, that happens, it's not big deal. Some noble gasses were vented, it's less than 1/100th of the exposure you get annually from background radiation and only half of what you'd get from a chest X-ray, so big whoop -I'll speak to it officially in a couple of weeks and I may show up in person after that and the president would have no plans to pay a visit. (obviously TMI had the potential to become a much bigger issue --never the less, despite the relatively low radiation actually leaked, it was treated as a maximum disaster)
      - _2z1p 4y ago
        It took him 17 days to even show up. What has he been working on that's more important? He's not just incompetent, he's an uncaring sociopath. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/02/23/east-palestine-ohio-train-derailment-pete-buttigieg-failure/11329841002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/02/23/east-pales... I will say though, at least he did finally show up. Better late than never I guess. His boss doesn't have any plans to. https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/24/politics/joe-biden-east-palestine/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/24/politics/joe-biden-east-pales...
        puffoflogic 4y ago
        His boss hallucinates riding trains with dead people; this is a bit out of his league.
    - andscoop 4y ago
  - cma 4y ago
    Some back of the envelope math, isn't that only like two orders of magnitude more burned than in a single vinyl siding multistory apartment building fire?
  - rcme 4y ago
    NJ has a long history of being used as a toxic waste dumping site. It's unsurprising that a train accident on the outskirts of Philadelphia didn't raise many eyebrows.
ncr100 4y ago
There are two "longs" in this story. Beware confusion. * >> Long term << health impacts of a short-term exposure. * Ongoing >> long-term << exposure, from insufficient cleanup of widely-dispersed toxins.

42 points by hammock 4y ago

mc32 4y ago

This has become, pardon the expression, a slow-moving train wreck in terms of PR and more importantly, on-the-ground-response from government agencies. The secretary of transportation took pains to downplay its impact, going so far as to take weeks to address the issue officially and more weeks to go and personally take a look at the situation. Industry has been as ham-fisted as well -but that's almost understandable given the conflict of interest. But still, they should have give it the seriousness it deserves. Unintentionally, Pete underlined the lackadaisical attitude when he said, paraphrasing here, hey, no biggie, derailments happen over 2.5 x day. So either the gov is woefully derelict in its duties or... he was trying to minimize the scope of an actual serious incident. I hope what comes out of this is an investigatory commission who will make recommendations to minimize the toxic effect of accidents that will be followed up with actual new regulation.

NobleLie 4y ago
Wow. I think the last non negligible accident including vinyl chloride was 2012, and it was ~6x less bulk volume than this one (20k gallons as opposed to 120k) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5776704/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5776704/ And it wasn't managed via a controlled burn. Buttegieg should know that it's not about the number of derailments but the chemicals involved, the volume / mass involved, the conditions of leakage / spillage, environmental spread and finally the chosen response to mmmanage (which sometimes can make the problem worse or trade one problem for another)
- lockhouse 4y ago
  Why should Buttegieg know that? What qualifications does he have for his job other than his sexual preference and being a presidential candidate that got out of Biden's way?
  - NobleLie 4y ago
    Well I did claim he should know that. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. If he does, that jumps this ship into conspiracy territory (conspiring to belittle those concerned, without evidence) and he doesn't, he should be immediately released from his position due to mental inadequacy (it's bordering common sense) I've heard far dumber things said and no culpability so I imagine nothing to change.
    - mc32 4y ago
      Can you imagine the shakeout that would happen if an AEC commissioner faced with a TMI-like incident were to say, yeah, no, that happens, it's not big deal. Some noble gasses were vented, it's less than 1/100th of the exposure you get annually from background radiation and only half of what you'd get from a chest X-ray, so big whoop -I'll speak to it officially in a couple of weeks and I may show up in person after that and the president would have no plans to pay a visit. (obviously TMI had the potential to become a much bigger issue --never the less, despite the relatively low radiation actually leaked, it was treated as a maximum disaster)
    - _2z1p 4y ago
      It took him 17 days to even show up. What has he been working on that's more important? He's not just incompetent, he's an uncaring sociopath. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/02/23/east-palestine-ohio-train-derailment-pete-buttigieg-failure/11329841002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2023/02/23/east-pales... I will say though, at least he did finally show up. Better late than never I guess. His boss doesn't have any plans to. https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/24/politics/joe-biden-east-palestine/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/24/politics/joe-biden-east-pales...
      - puffoflogic 4y ago
        His boss hallucinates riding trains with dead people; this is a bit out of his league.
  - andscoop 4y ago
- cma 4y ago
  Some back of the envelope math, isn't that only like two orders of magnitude more burned than in a single vinyl siding multistory apartment building fire?
- rcme 4y ago
  NJ has a long history of being used as a toxic waste dumping site. It's unsurprising that a train accident on the outskirts of Philadelphia didn't raise many eyebrows.

ncr100 4y ago

There are two "longs" in this story. Beware confusion. * >> Long term << health impacts of a short-term exposure. * Ongoing >> long-term << exposure, from insufficient cleanup of widely-dispersed toxins.