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As other have noted, the lack of updates and locked boot loader make this a no go, but the state of fully open-source, non-Android phones OSs is likewise abysma

As other have noted, the lack of updates and locked boot loader make this a no go, but the state of fully open-source, non-Android phones OSs is likewise abysmal. As such, leaving the iPhone isn’t going to happen for me. I’m still using my iPhone 11, and it’s still nice and speedy, the battery is fine, it gets updates quickly, and generally doesn’t annoy me too much. If the PinePhone or PinePhone Pro had a solid, fully functional, open source, non-Android operating system that was also good with power management… I would switch without hesitation. That’s just a super high bar, and I don’t expect anyone to actually pull it off any time soon.

Moldoteck 4y ago
What do you think about fairphone 4? According to web, it supports: Fairphone OS CalyxOS DivestOS /e/OS (Murena) iodéOS LeOS LineageOS postmarketOS Ubuntu Touch
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  Fairphone isn’t and probably won’t be available in North America, sadly.
  - toastal 4y ago
    They also dropped the headphone jack on v4 like other flagship phones.
  - dadoomer 4y ago
    I'm curious on why you think this. I really would buy one as my next phone.
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      See this forum post: https://forum.fairphone.com/t/can-i-buy-the-fairphone-4-in-the-u-s/76685/9 https://forum.fairphone.com/t/can-i-buy-the-fairphone-4-in-t... Previous versions of the Fairphone also weren't available in the US due to as I understand it hurdles posed by FCC approval (and I would assume the Canadian equivalent).
saiya-jin 4y ago
strange comment, comparing apples and oranges, and concluding your much more expensive orange is better for you... yeah I am not switch my Samsung s22 ultra for this neither, I find it very important to state this to the whole world because my own currently-utterly-unrealistic-to-beat set of reasons
- hunter2_ 4y ago
  Interesting decision about which one is the orange in this analogy :)
aio2 4y ago
You have high standards for a more simple and cheap product.
- TheSkyHasEyes 4y ago
  > the lack of updates This is not a high standard in the year 2023.
- Entinel 4y ago
  Those are high standards? They basically said "I want an open-source phone that actually works."
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    Is the argument that no open-source phone actually works ? On parent’s point, the Nokia g22 is 180 euros, the iPhone 11 at same capacity was 700 euros at launch. You can’t expect Nokia to contractually promise 8 years of OS updates at that price point. To note, iPhone also don’t have 5+years of OS support promises, we’re just looking at the trend and assume that it will continue. I’d also expect this Nokia to have a bit more than 3 years of support time, we just don’t know how much.
- sundvor 4y ago
  For a device that markets itself as repairable, 3 years of updates is a bad joke. So it should at minimum have an open bootloader. My Samsung S10 5G is turning 4 in a few months, still receiving regular security updates.
jokoon 4y ago
android is open source, nobody can answer me why the pinephone doesn't use android instead android doesn't require google services to work
- khimaros 4y ago
  Glodroid is an AOSP build for PP.
- wolfskaempf 4y ago
  In fact there are versions of Android that run on the PinePhone like GloDroid, but it's really not the goal. The goal behind efforts like the Librem 5 or PinePhone is not to create yet another Android phone, which Open Source or not will strengthen the Duopoly of Google and Apple in the Mobile Phone Operating System market. The goal is to create hardware that can jump-start the development of a true GNU/Linux Mobile Operating System. With its real world use case, it has brought great advances to Mobile "Desktop" Environments like Plasma Mobile or Phosh by motivating developers who could finally use their creations and improvements on a real phone.
  - jokoon 4y ago
    why is not the goal?
    - fsflover 4y ago
      Having the same OS on my laptop and phone is amazing. Android turns a general-purpose device into a restricted one, without a possibility to run desktop apps. Desktop OS allows to use desktop apps on the phone and enjoy convergence: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#213-how-well-will-convergence-work-to-use-the-librem-5-as-a-desktop-pc https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
      - Nextgrid 4y ago
        > Android turns a general-purpose device into a restricted one Android still runs the Linux kernel and the only reason you can't have shell access on it is user-hostile restrictions, which an open-source build wouldn't have. I think it would be a lot easier to add desktop apps capability to Android for the minority that actually wants to run Linux apps on their phone than building a touch-optimized userspace from scratch. If your desire is to run Linux desktop apps on Android I bet you can already do it if you find an X Server APK and got your Linux app to use it as your X display - that would've been a quick, pragmatic solution to satisfy the "Linux desktop" requirement while taking advantage of Android's mature & battle-tested touch-optimised userspace.
newaccount2021 4y ago
[dead]
anigbrowl 4y ago
lack of updates and locked boot loader The boot loader will probably be unlocked sooner or later. It should be open, but I think it's reasonable to expect either update support or unlocked booting, not necessarily both. In a gook device, that is. You have to remember that most consumers do not want to know how their phone works or to become expert in its configuration. They just want it to work. A compromise here would be to have an option to unlock everything, but with the understanding that by doing so you opt out of warranty service. Is your iPhone's boot loader unlocked?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
HybridCurve 4y ago
Not just that, but the pinephone camera is complete garbage. It's basically a deal killer for many since we've grown to rely on our phone producing quality digital images and video. If they fix that and battery life you will draw enough developers to help make a reasonably decent mobile experience. But as it is now, there are few devices which have both adequate capabilities and driver support for it to work. Reducing cost and making it more repairable is a step in the right direction, but there is no reason why shouldn't get 5-6+ years of life out of a mobile phone.

Moldoteck 4y ago

What do you think about fairphone 4? According to web, it supports: Fairphone OS CalyxOS DivestOS /e/OS (Murena) iodéOS LeOS LineageOS postmarketOS Ubuntu Touch

kitsunesoba 4y ago
Fairphone isn’t and probably won’t be available in North America, sadly.
- toastal 4y ago
  They also dropped the headphone jack on v4 like other flagship phones.
- dadoomer 4y ago
  I'm curious on why you think this. I really would buy one as my next phone.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    See this forum post: https://forum.fairphone.com/t/can-i-buy-the-fairphone-4-in-the-u-s/76685/9 https://forum.fairphone.com/t/can-i-buy-the-fairphone-4-in-t... Previous versions of the Fairphone also weren't available in the US due to as I understand it hurdles posed by FCC approval (and I would assume the Canadian equivalent).

saiya-jin 4y ago

strange comment, comparing apples and oranges, and concluding your much more expensive orange is better for you... yeah I am not switch my Samsung s22 ultra for this neither, I find it very important to state this to the whole world because my own currently-utterly-unrealistic-to-beat set of reasons

hunter2_ 4y ago
Interesting decision about which one is the orange in this analogy :)

aio2 4y ago

You have high standards for a more simple and cheap product.

TheSkyHasEyes 4y ago
> the lack of updates This is not a high standard in the year 2023.
Entinel 4y ago
Those are high standards? They basically said "I want an open-source phone that actually works."
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  Is the argument that no open-source phone actually works ? On parent’s point, the Nokia g22 is 180 euros, the iPhone 11 at same capacity was 700 euros at launch. You can’t expect Nokia to contractually promise 8 years of OS updates at that price point. To note, iPhone also don’t have 5+years of OS support promises, we’re just looking at the trend and assume that it will continue. I’d also expect this Nokia to have a bit more than 3 years of support time, we just don’t know how much.
sundvor 4y ago
For a device that markets itself as repairable, 3 years of updates is a bad joke. So it should at minimum have an open bootloader. My Samsung S10 5G is turning 4 in a few months, still receiving regular security updates.

jokoon 4y ago

android is open source, nobody can answer me why the pinephone doesn't use android instead android doesn't require google services to work

khimaros 4y ago
Glodroid is an AOSP build for PP.
wolfskaempf 4y ago
In fact there are versions of Android that run on the PinePhone like GloDroid, but it's really not the goal. The goal behind efforts like the Librem 5 or PinePhone is not to create yet another Android phone, which Open Source or not will strengthen the Duopoly of Google and Apple in the Mobile Phone Operating System market. The goal is to create hardware that can jump-start the development of a true GNU/Linux Mobile Operating System. With its real world use case, it has brought great advances to Mobile "Desktop" Environments like Plasma Mobile or Phosh by motivating developers who could finally use their creations and improvements on a real phone.
- jokoon 4y ago
  why is not the goal?
  - fsflover 4y ago
    Having the same OS on my laptop and phone is amazing. Android turns a general-purpose device into a restricted one, without a possibility to run desktop apps. Desktop OS allows to use desktop apps on the phone and enjoy convergence: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#213-how-well-will-convergence-work-to-use-the-librem-5-as-a-desktop-pc https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      > Android turns a general-purpose device into a restricted one Android still runs the Linux kernel and the only reason you can't have shell access on it is user-hostile restrictions, which an open-source build wouldn't have. I think it would be a lot easier to add desktop apps capability to Android for the minority that actually wants to run Linux apps on their phone than building a touch-optimized userspace from scratch. If your desire is to run Linux desktop apps on Android I bet you can already do it if you find an X Server APK and got your Linux app to use it as your X display - that would've been a quick, pragmatic solution to satisfy the "Linux desktop" requirement while taking advantage of Android's mature & battle-tested touch-optimised userspace.

newaccount2021 4y ago

[dead]

anigbrowl 4y ago

lack of updates and locked boot loader The boot loader will probably be unlocked sooner or later. It should be open, but I think it's reasonable to expect either update support or unlocked booting, not necessarily both. In a gook device, that is. You have to remember that most consumers do not want to know how their phone works or to become expert in its configuration. They just want it to work. A compromise here would be to have an option to unlock everything, but with the understanding that by doing so you opt out of warranty service. Is your iPhone's boot loader unlocked?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

HybridCurve 4y ago

Not just that, but the pinephone camera is complete garbage. It's basically a deal killer for many since we've grown to rely on our phone producing quality digital images and video. If they fix that and battery life you will draw enough developers to help make a reasonably decent mobile experience. But as it is now, there are few devices which have both adequate capabilities and driver support for it to work. Reducing cost and making it more repairable is a step in the right direction, but there is no reason why shouldn't get 5-6+ years of life out of a mobile phone.