8 ms·

I was looking at a media center/gaming emulation device and to be honest i dont see the benefit of these android based TV devices or Apple TV anymore. You can

by tacker2000 4y ago

I was looking at a media center/gaming emulation device and to be honest i dont see the benefit of these android based TV devices or Apple TV anymore. You can buy a good mini-pc for a couple hundred bucks and its much more powerful and flexible. You can run windows or linux etc and hook up any keyboard, controller, remote, and do whatever you like.

iamacyborg 4y ago
Apple TV is useful as a homekit controller if you care about that sort of thing. That’s about it though.
ccouzens 4y ago
I'd be interested to hear how you'd get the usability to be as good as an operating system designed to be used with a remote running apps designed to be run with a remote. Having to use a mouse and keyboard is a pain point for me when I use my desktop on my TV from the couch. For the mouse I use the trackpad on a ps5 controller, so the mouse isn't so bad. Possibly you could: * Not require passwords for everyday operation of your computer * Boot into some sort of launcher designed for televisions * Have a fairly narrow set of apps and services that work well with your setup. For example I don't know how you'd use Netflix or Disney plus with a remote on Linux.
- iplist 4y ago
  I've been running Kodi for over a decade now. It starts on boot, so all I have to do is start the desktop. Remote works with an open source Anroid app, it also allows streaming from Kodi to your phone and vice versa. Youtube works fine, never tried Disney+/Netflix, I'm not sure that's possible.
  - amatecha 4y ago
    Kodi has YouTube? YT was the only reason I didn't just set up a Pi 4 or whatever. Already got one LibreELEC system for the home theatre, but wanted YT for the "daily driver" TV display. I assumed any YT plugin for Kodi would be persistently behind API changes and often not working, etc... is my assumption wrong? Would be great to hear if so haha
    - irusensei 4y ago
      YouTube nerfed their api in a way that using third party clients is from hard to impossible. Things like requiring users to register api keys etc.
    - deadbunny 4y ago
      You need to setup your own set of API keys (fairly easy) but it canl break for a week or so at a time when YT make changes that need updates for but it's reasonably rare (one every couple of years).
      - crtasm 4y ago
        I've never added API keys and it mostly works fine, need to retry a link sometimes (youtube a/b testing things I guess?) and I imagine it can't play age-gated videos.
    - iplist 4y ago
      I use NewPipe and choose to stream to Kodi. That has worked fine for the last few years, even with an outdated Kodi YouTube plugin.
- deadbunny 4y ago
  You can configure linux to directly boot into Kodi with zero interaction very easily[1]. If you pickup a machine with an IR sensor (some Intel NUCs for example) then you can configure it to use a remote[2]. RPis have HDMI-CEC which mean you can use your TV remote[3]. With that said I just use a mini keyboard[4] as it's the easiest and moat versatile for me, definitely not the most user friendly for people who don't know the keys though!). Admittedly I only have local media and YouTube (via a Kodi Plugin)and don't use any streaming services so Kodi fulfils my needs perfectly. 1. https://kodi.wiki/view/HOW-TO:Autostart_Kodi_for_Linux https://kodi.wiki/view/HOW-TO:Autostart_Kodi_for_Linux 2. https://kodi.wiki/view/Remote_controls https://kodi.wiki/view/Remote_controls 3. https://pimylifeup.com/raspberrypi-hdmi-cec/ https://pimylifeup.com/raspberrypi-hdmi-cec/ 4. http://www.riitek.com/product/k08x.html http://www.riitek.com/product/k08x.html
  - vips7L 4y ago
    No regular user wants to maintain this. Not everyone wants to tinker with Linux.
- tacker2000 4y ago
  There exist a couple of wireless media keyboards with integrated trackpads like a large one from logitech or microsoft or some small ones from obscure chinese companies on amazon. There are also remotes that you can connect over bluetooth. https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Wireless-Media-Keyboard-N9Z-00001/dp/B00IICMUWS https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Wireless-Media-Keyboard-N9Z... https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Multi-touch-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B01GRTBRMW https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Multi-touch-Certifi... https://www.amazon.com/Rii-Wireless-Bluetooth-Backlight-RTi8BT-6/dp/B01FXDW2YA https://www.amazon.com/Rii-Wireless-Bluetooth-Backlight-RTi8...
roxgib 4y ago
The obvious response to this is that the non-techy family members wouldn't be able to use it, but honestly most home entertainment setups are already crazy complicated, whereas everyone knows how to use a PC (for now)
- dividedbyzero 4y ago
  Mash any of the four buttons on the Apple TV remote until the TV turns on, then use the top third of the remote as a touch surface to pick the app logo you want (Netflix, Youtube, etc.). If your iPhone is in the same wifi, a notification will tell you you can use it to type instead of the on-screen keyboard if you get into a free text field like for search. Apple products have their faults, and they are expensive, but that experience is as simple and smooth as it gets. We also have an old laptop attached to the TV. We set that up in the lockdowns so we could use a webcam on the TV and a wired microphone on the coffee table to "get together" with friends and family, still use it occasionally for Dungeons & Dragons with friends who live too far away to visit often. The Apple TV doesn't support webcams, but wins at everything else, hands down. Even for desktop-y stuff, streaming my Macbook or my girlfriend's iPad to the Apple TV is less hassle. Desktop ergonomics just don't work on the couch, at least for us, even with a nice-ish wireless keyboard with touchpad. Having a touchpad remote with just four buttons that have very predictable functions and a simple mobile-ish UI is nice, even to me, and I'm a desktop power user otherwise. Desktop OSes are for work, school or uni, most people aren't inclined, encouraged and/or enabled to explore and play in those, so they don't get them the way desktop power users do and tend to expect everyone else to, or the way people get mobile UX. If you want something nearly everyone can pick up quickly, even older children and some seniors, make it touch-based, responsive, give it proper apps and the same core animations mobile phones have and you're 80% there.
goosedragons 4y ago
You can get a streaming stick with the remote for like $50. It will come with all the stupid DRM in place required to stream 1080p/4K/HDR whatever and it'll be designed to be used from 10 feet away with a remote. Plus it'll use like 3W of power. Setting that all up on PC is much more of a chore.
- tacker2000 4y ago
  Yes sure, but i was talking about OPs nvidia shield, which costs like 200 bucks and it also has gaming capabilities. If all you want is netflix and youtube then of course a 50$ chrome stick is fine.
acdha 4y ago
> You can buy a good mini-pc for a couple hundred bucks and its much more powerful and flexible. You can run windows or linux etc and hook up any keyboard, controller, remote, and do whatever you like. More flexible, yes, but are you really getting more powerful than an A15 for that price, especially when running a general purpose OS? That last point is really hurting why media PCs disappeared: you’re paying considerably more - a whole number multiple - for an experience which isn’t designed for a TV, and in return you get the fun of playing sysadmin when you’re trying to relax. Most people are not going to pay a significant premium so they can deal with drivers and trying to figure out why their HDR isn’t working. Device lifetime theoretically could counter that out but I’m skeptical that hardware won’t be what sets the timing for that in either case, and the dollars per year metric isn’t favorable there.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Performance-wise? Yeah, I bet you could. A Ryzen 5 mini PC is well under $200 and will probably have hardware acceleration for 4k60. If you're the sort of person that already has SFTP plugged into your "media backup drive", Kodi on a cheap low-power box is kinda a no-brainer. There are certainly better push-button solutions on the market, but arguing in the AppleTV's favor for performance is probably a phyrric victory at-best. If you want an AppleTV, get an AppleTV - if you want a streaming box for your ripped Blu-Rays and legally-dumped retrogames, you can build it yourself for roughly the same price.
  - acdha 4y ago
    > Ryzen 5 mini PC is well under $200 and will probably have hardware acceleration for 4k60. The cheapest one Google knows about is an AliExpress no-name brand at $159 and that’s because it includes no storage or RAM, and uses a 3750H which benchmarks at less than half the speed. Once you add memory, it’s over $200. It does match the Apple TV on 4K@60 HDR support so I’d assume it must have hardware support. Amazon has a couple of off-brand Intel devices, also around $200 for around half the Apple device’s performance. Again, if you really want a PC you certainly can make it work but the reason it’s unpopular is that you’re paying a lot more – this is starting at 150% for hardware which is unlikely to last as long – and you then have to support a full PC, buy remotes, etc. If you enjoy that as a hobby, sure, but it’s hardly surprising that most people buy something which just works out of the box.

iamacyborg 4y ago

Apple TV is useful as a homekit controller if you care about that sort of thing. That’s about it though.

ccouzens 4y ago

I'd be interested to hear how you'd get the usability to be as good as an operating system designed to be used with a remote running apps designed to be run with a remote. Having to use a mouse and keyboard is a pain point for me when I use my desktop on my TV from the couch. For the mouse I use the trackpad on a ps5 controller, so the mouse isn't so bad. Possibly you could: * Not require passwords for everyday operation of your computer * Boot into some sort of launcher designed for televisions * Have a fairly narrow set of apps and services that work well with your setup. For example I don't know how you'd use Netflix or Disney plus with a remote on Linux.

iplist 4y ago
I've been running Kodi for over a decade now. It starts on boot, so all I have to do is start the desktop. Remote works with an open source Anroid app, it also allows streaming from Kodi to your phone and vice versa. Youtube works fine, never tried Disney+/Netflix, I'm not sure that's possible.
- amatecha 4y ago
  Kodi has YouTube? YT was the only reason I didn't just set up a Pi 4 or whatever. Already got one LibreELEC system for the home theatre, but wanted YT for the "daily driver" TV display. I assumed any YT plugin for Kodi would be persistently behind API changes and often not working, etc... is my assumption wrong? Would be great to hear if so haha
  - irusensei 4y ago
    YouTube nerfed their api in a way that using third party clients is from hard to impossible. Things like requiring users to register api keys etc.
  - deadbunny 4y ago
    You need to setup your own set of API keys (fairly easy) but it canl break for a week or so at a time when YT make changes that need updates for but it's reasonably rare (one every couple of years).
    - crtasm 4y ago
      I've never added API keys and it mostly works fine, need to retry a link sometimes (youtube a/b testing things I guess?) and I imagine it can't play age-gated videos.
  - iplist 4y ago
    I use NewPipe and choose to stream to Kodi. That has worked fine for the last few years, even with an outdated Kodi YouTube plugin.
deadbunny 4y ago
You can configure linux to directly boot into Kodi with zero interaction very easily[1]. If you pickup a machine with an IR sensor (some Intel NUCs for example) then you can configure it to use a remote[2]. RPis have HDMI-CEC which mean you can use your TV remote[3]. With that said I just use a mini keyboard[4] as it's the easiest and moat versatile for me, definitely not the most user friendly for people who don't know the keys though!). Admittedly I only have local media and YouTube (via a Kodi Plugin)and don't use any streaming services so Kodi fulfils my needs perfectly. 1. https://kodi.wiki/view/HOW-TO:Autostart_Kodi_for_Linux https://kodi.wiki/view/HOW-TO:Autostart_Kodi_for_Linux 2. https://kodi.wiki/view/Remote_controls https://kodi.wiki/view/Remote_controls 3. https://pimylifeup.com/raspberrypi-hdmi-cec/ https://pimylifeup.com/raspberrypi-hdmi-cec/ 4. http://www.riitek.com/product/k08x.html http://www.riitek.com/product/k08x.html
- vips7L 4y ago
  No regular user wants to maintain this. Not everyone wants to tinker with Linux.
tacker2000 4y ago
There exist a couple of wireless media keyboards with integrated trackpads like a large one from logitech or microsoft or some small ones from obscure chinese companies on amazon. There are also remotes that you can connect over bluetooth. https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Wireless-Media-Keyboard-N9Z-00001/dp/B00IICMUWS https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Wireless-Media-Keyboard-N9Z... https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Multi-touch-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B01GRTBRMW https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Multi-touch-Certifi... https://www.amazon.com/Rii-Wireless-Bluetooth-Backlight-RTi8BT-6/dp/B01FXDW2YA https://www.amazon.com/Rii-Wireless-Bluetooth-Backlight-RTi8...

roxgib 4y ago

The obvious response to this is that the non-techy family members wouldn't be able to use it, but honestly most home entertainment setups are already crazy complicated, whereas everyone knows how to use a PC (for now)

dividedbyzero 4y ago
Mash any of the four buttons on the Apple TV remote until the TV turns on, then use the top third of the remote as a touch surface to pick the app logo you want (Netflix, Youtube, etc.). If your iPhone is in the same wifi, a notification will tell you you can use it to type instead of the on-screen keyboard if you get into a free text field like for search. Apple products have their faults, and they are expensive, but that experience is as simple and smooth as it gets. We also have an old laptop attached to the TV. We set that up in the lockdowns so we could use a webcam on the TV and a wired microphone on the coffee table to "get together" with friends and family, still use it occasionally for Dungeons & Dragons with friends who live too far away to visit often. The Apple TV doesn't support webcams, but wins at everything else, hands down. Even for desktop-y stuff, streaming my Macbook or my girlfriend's iPad to the Apple TV is less hassle. Desktop ergonomics just don't work on the couch, at least for us, even with a nice-ish wireless keyboard with touchpad. Having a touchpad remote with just four buttons that have very predictable functions and a simple mobile-ish UI is nice, even to me, and I'm a desktop power user otherwise. Desktop OSes are for work, school or uni, most people aren't inclined, encouraged and/or enabled to explore and play in those, so they don't get them the way desktop power users do and tend to expect everyone else to, or the way people get mobile UX. If you want something nearly everyone can pick up quickly, even older children and some seniors, make it touch-based, responsive, give it proper apps and the same core animations mobile phones have and you're 80% there.

goosedragons 4y ago

You can get a streaming stick with the remote for like $50. It will come with all the stupid DRM in place required to stream 1080p/4K/HDR whatever and it'll be designed to be used from 10 feet away with a remote. Plus it'll use like 3W of power. Setting that all up on PC is much more of a chore.

tacker2000 4y ago
Yes sure, but i was talking about OPs nvidia shield, which costs like 200 bucks and it also has gaming capabilities. If all you want is netflix and youtube then of course a 50$ chrome stick is fine.

acdha 4y ago

> You can buy a good mini-pc for a couple hundred bucks and its much more powerful and flexible. You can run windows or linux etc and hook up any keyboard, controller, remote, and do whatever you like. More flexible, yes, but are you really getting more powerful than an A15 for that price, especially when running a general purpose OS? That last point is really hurting why media PCs disappeared: you’re paying considerably more - a whole number multiple - for an experience which isn’t designed for a TV, and in return you get the fun of playing sysadmin when you’re trying to relax. Most people are not going to pay a significant premium so they can deal with drivers and trying to figure out why their HDR isn’t working. Device lifetime theoretically could counter that out but I’m skeptical that hardware won’t be what sets the timing for that in either case, and the dollars per year metric isn’t favorable there.

smoldesu 4y ago
Performance-wise? Yeah, I bet you could. A Ryzen 5 mini PC is well under $200 and will probably have hardware acceleration for 4k60. If you're the sort of person that already has SFTP plugged into your "media backup drive", Kodi on a cheap low-power box is kinda a no-brainer. There are certainly better push-button solutions on the market, but arguing in the AppleTV's favor for performance is probably a phyrric victory at-best. If you want an AppleTV, get an AppleTV - if you want a streaming box for your ripped Blu-Rays and legally-dumped retrogames, you can build it yourself for roughly the same price.
- acdha 4y ago
  > Ryzen 5 mini PC is well under $200 and will probably have hardware acceleration for 4k60. The cheapest one Google knows about is an AliExpress no-name brand at $159 and that’s because it includes no storage or RAM, and uses a 3750H which benchmarks at less than half the speed. Once you add memory, it’s over $200. It does match the Apple TV on 4K@60 HDR support so I’d assume it must have hardware support. Amazon has a couple of off-brand Intel devices, also around $200 for around half the Apple device’s performance. Again, if you really want a PC you certainly can make it work but the reason it’s unpopular is that you’re paying a lot more – this is starting at 150% for hardware which is unlikely to last as long – and you then have to support a full PC, buy remotes, etc. If you enjoy that as a hobby, sure, but it’s hardly surprising that most people buy something which just works out of the box.