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> What really ticks me off with that is that it's based in denying freedom to everyone else. Next time you're bicycling down the sidewalk, remember that this i

> What really ticks me off with that is that it's based in denying freedom to everyone else. Next time you're bicycling down the sidewalk, remember that this is how pedestrians feel about _you_.

6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago
yeah, but what about . . .
atyppo 4y ago
Perhaps cyclists riding on the sidewalk is a sign that bike infrastructure doesn’t exist where it should?
- version_five 4y ago
  Or that they're a jerk? Can I drive my car on the sidewalk if the road isn't meeting my needs? It's exactly this self centric view that makes so many people not like cyclists.
  - crote 4y ago
    That's exactly what is happening, though. See [0] for example, many drivers treat cycle lanes as a parking zone. And cars driving down dedicated bike lanes because they feel like it aren't exactly hard to find either.[1] [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXzObryNvxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXzObryNvxk
    - thrownawaydad 4y ago
      Your second link is not an example of purposeful bad driving. It's an example of terrible design. And more generally, a demonstration of how well-intended bicycle infrastructure can actually make things _more_ dangerous for bicyclists. I've ridden thousands of miles, and the only bit of infrastructure that ever helped was wide shoulders, preferably with a bright white line demarcating.
  - sobkas 4y ago
    > Or that they're a jerk? Can I drive my car on the sidewalk if the road isn't meeting my needs? It's exactly this self centric view that makes so many people not like cyclists. Yes self centric view that staying alive is preferable to being dead. If only they were more altruistic and gave their lives, more people would like them. But no, their selfish desire to stay alive yet again destroyed everything.
- thrownawaydad 4y ago
  As detail, I live in one of the most bike-friendly cities in the world. Lots of infrastructure, markings and signals set up to favor cyclists, and so on. Before moving here, I would have thought that that would lead to an excellent and safe environment for all. It's not. Bicyclists regularly terrorize pedestrians on sidewalks, even when there are excellent purpose-built bike paths mere meters away. At intersections, they regularly flip back and forth between being "like bicycles" and "like pedestrians", making them dangerously unpredictable. They pound on cars when they feel they should have the right of way (they don't). Even when they are in the bike lane, a quarter of the time they're riding against the flow of traffic. No lights, no reflectors, dressed in black at night. The most bicycle-sympathetic drivers struggle to avoid hitting these knuckleheads. It's a sad situation.
jeffbee 4y ago
If there were anything like 6k dead pedestrians who got run down by cyclists every year, this would be good commentary. Perversely, there are many perceived "near-collisions" between bikes and peds, while there generally aren't these between cars and peds. Cars generally just kill their victim without missing. This leads to an overabundance of those who live to say that a bicyclist almost killed them once. As a Finnish study concludes, "Near accidents appear to occur often, while actual collisions are rare."
crote 4y ago
You know, I've never felt the urge to bike down the sidewalk, and I don't think I ever see anyone else do so. But that's probably because my area has decent cycling infrastructure, so that means I have a place to cycle without fearing for my life besides the sidewalk.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  I live in a city where it’s legal and it’s never bothered me. People don’t ride fast on the sidewalk. It’s mostly old people who just wouldn’t be riding at all if it wasn’t legal.
- blooalien 4y ago
  Then you've never lived in Salt Lake City, Utah, where drivers seems to consider bikers (even in bike lanes) as targets to harass and scare off the road (and even to throw 7-11 full "Big Gulp"s at), and crosswalks as "pedestrian target zones"…
rexpop 4y ago
What are you talking about? It's illegal to bike down the sidewalk, and we don't. We bike in the proper lane.
blooalien 4y ago
And that is why when I'm forced to ride on the sidewalk due to lack of any bike lanes or other safety related issues (ridiculously dangerous car / truck drivers in some areas where I've lived, etc) I always go out of my way to give pedestrians all the right of way and respect possible, even to the point of getting off my bike and walking it when there's no other available way to respect the pedestrians and allow them to feel safe walking on the sidewalk. In my mind, the sidewalks are for pedestrians first and foremost, so I make whatever necessary efforts to give them their space and not put them at risk. Is only fair…

> What really ticks me off with that is that it's based in denying freedom to everyone else. Next time you're bicycling down the sidewalk, remember that this is how pedestrians feel about _you_.

6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago

yeah, but what about . . .

atyppo 4y ago

Perhaps cyclists riding on the sidewalk is a sign that bike infrastructure doesn’t exist where it should?

version_five 4y ago
Or that they're a jerk? Can I drive my car on the sidewalk if the road isn't meeting my needs? It's exactly this self centric view that makes so many people not like cyclists.
- crote 4y ago
  That's exactly what is happening, though. See [0] for example, many drivers treat cycle lanes as a parking zone. And cars driving down dedicated bike lanes because they feel like it aren't exactly hard to find either.[1] [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXzObryNvxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXzObryNvxk
  - thrownawaydad 4y ago
    Your second link is not an example of purposeful bad driving. It's an example of terrible design. And more generally, a demonstration of how well-intended bicycle infrastructure can actually make things _more_ dangerous for bicyclists. I've ridden thousands of miles, and the only bit of infrastructure that ever helped was wide shoulders, preferably with a bright white line demarcating.
- sobkas 4y ago
  > Or that they're a jerk? Can I drive my car on the sidewalk if the road isn't meeting my needs? It's exactly this self centric view that makes so many people not like cyclists. Yes self centric view that staying alive is preferable to being dead. If only they were more altruistic and gave their lives, more people would like them. But no, their selfish desire to stay alive yet again destroyed everything.
thrownawaydad 4y ago
As detail, I live in one of the most bike-friendly cities in the world. Lots of infrastructure, markings and signals set up to favor cyclists, and so on. Before moving here, I would have thought that that would lead to an excellent and safe environment for all. It's not. Bicyclists regularly terrorize pedestrians on sidewalks, even when there are excellent purpose-built bike paths mere meters away. At intersections, they regularly flip back and forth between being "like bicycles" and "like pedestrians", making them dangerously unpredictable. They pound on cars when they feel they should have the right of way (they don't). Even when they are in the bike lane, a quarter of the time they're riding against the flow of traffic. No lights, no reflectors, dressed in black at night. The most bicycle-sympathetic drivers struggle to avoid hitting these knuckleheads. It's a sad situation.

jeffbee 4y ago

If there were anything like 6k dead pedestrians who got run down by cyclists every year, this would be good commentary. Perversely, there are many perceived "near-collisions" between bikes and peds, while there generally aren't these between cars and peds. Cars generally just kill their victim without missing. This leads to an overabundance of those who live to say that a bicyclist almost killed them once. As a Finnish study concludes, "Near accidents appear to occur often, while actual collisions are rare."

crote 4y ago

You know, I've never felt the urge to bike down the sidewalk, and I don't think I ever see anyone else do so. But that's probably because my area has decent cycling infrastructure, so that means I have a place to cycle without fearing for my life besides the sidewalk.

Gigachad 4y ago
I live in a city where it’s legal and it’s never bothered me. People don’t ride fast on the sidewalk. It’s mostly old people who just wouldn’t be riding at all if it wasn’t legal.
blooalien 4y ago
Then you've never lived in Salt Lake City, Utah, where drivers seems to consider bikers (even in bike lanes) as targets to harass and scare off the road (and even to throw 7-11 full "Big Gulp"s at), and crosswalks as "pedestrian target zones"…

rexpop 4y ago

What are you talking about? It's illegal to bike down the sidewalk, and we don't. We bike in the proper lane.

blooalien 4y ago

And that is why when I'm forced to ride on the sidewalk due to lack of any bike lanes or other safety related issues (ridiculously dangerous car / truck drivers in some areas where I've lived, etc) I always go out of my way to give pedestrians all the right of way and respect possible, even to the point of getting off my bike and walking it when there's no other available way to respect the pedestrians and allow them to feel safe walking on the sidewalk. In my mind, the sidewalks are for pedestrians first and foremost, so I make whatever necessary efforts to give them their space and not put them at risk. Is only fair…