3 ms·

Is there a "good enough" guide to making an espresso?

qbasic_forever 4y ago
Unless you're ready to spend about 1000 bucks (at least 500 on a brewer and a similar amount on a grinder), IMHO I wouldn't try to replicate espresso at home. There's no real cheaper shortcut to getting real espresso--lower cost options can't evenly extract a puck of coffee and will give wildly different (and usually unsatisfying) results with every brew. IMHO I'd get an aeropress, moka pot, or similar setup for brewing good cups of coffee at home.
- mekoka 4y ago
  I disagree. For 50$ you can get a basic second-hand espresso maker that produces decent servings. 10$ gets you a grinder. I've tasted espresso from all kinds of makers. Admittedly, some were noticeably better. Very rarely it was because of the machine. Mostly it was the beans. So save all that money and reinvest it in testing various beans, until you find some you like. What does a 500$ grinder even do?
  - chii 4y ago
    > For 50$ you can get a basic second-hand espresso maker that produces decent servings. i highly doubt you can get any espresso maker with $50 that produces the right pressure, consistently enough, and with evenly heat enough, to produce anything that someone would call espresso. The secondhand, $10 hand grinder _might_ be good, but most hand grinders aren't good enough to grind fine for espresso. The cheapest cost, real espresso is a manual press like the flair. These won't cost $50 secondhand.
    - mekoka 4y ago
      > i highly doubt you can get any espresso maker with $50 that produces the right pressure, consistently enough, and with evenly heat enough, to produce anything that someone would call espresso. I just did. I'll spare myself the snobbery in your remark and stand by mine. There's quite a bit of sophistry in how coffee is (subjectively) appreciated and my argument is based on one such observed fallacy. As a traveler, I've noted that the problem of finding a good espresso is common among people who would call themselves aficionados. I've also observed such people who would normally look down at the entry-level Breville or DeLonghi machines, with similar arguments to yours, be perfectly content with the output of a Staresso or Nanopresso when traveling/camping, even if it's admittedly not on par with what their high-end machine usually produces at home. Now, forgive the subjective argument, but I'd say that the popular Breville Roma produces a noticeably better espresso than either the Staresso or Nanopresso. If you like the latter, you should also be able to somewhat enjoy the former. Hop on Facebook Marketplace and I bet you could find a second-hand Roma for around 50$.
      - qbasic_forever 4y ago
        The roma and similar sub $100 espresso machines (I have a delonghi model in that category) use a pressurized basket and aren't really making espresso comparable to more expensive machines. Expensive machines have more powerful pumps and boilers that ensure a proper 15 bar of pressure delivered to the puck vs. the roma and similar pressurized basket machines have a valve in the bottom of the basket that forces the basket to build all the pressure. The end result is an inconsistent brew as pressurizing on the basket wreaks havoc on the puck. Basically these cheap machines are designed to give a lot of crema and a meh espresso shot. I've had more success with my machine after removing the valve and depressurizing the basket, but then you start to run into the limitations of the boiler and pump not being up to the task. It's why I said you really need to spend about 500 on a brewer to get espresso comparable to what you get at a coffee shop. This isn't snobbery or whatever you want to say, it's just a simple fact pressurized basket brewers don't work the same way and are difficult to get consistently good results--they're designed to make a pretty looking brew.
        mekoka 4y ago
        Thanks for the detailed answer and insight. It opened up an interest in more closely comparing the shots one gets from machines in the different categories, to see how apart they really are.
        chii 4y ago
        > really need to spend about 500 for an electric machine, yes, this is the basic minimum, but not for a manual lever machine (i would expect brand new to cost less than $250, and second hand to be around $150 in good condition). The most expensive part of espresso machine is the pump. If you for go that with a manual, lever espresso machine, you bring the cost down drastically. Ditto with grinder - a good manual grinder with good burrs capable of the fine grind for espresso can be had for around $100 bucks brand new.
slothtrop 4y ago
Use a moka pot for an espresso-like beverage that uses very cheap equipment, and follow Hoffman's method on youtube. Personally I prefer it to espresso because you get slightly more volume and a similar strong taste. Once you get it dialed in, it's downright amazing.
makeset 4y ago
For actual espresso, you need a proper espresso machine (and not just any appliance labeled as such). The Breville/Sage Bambino may be the most affordable entry-level machine worth recommending right now, selling as low as $200-250 on seasonal/store deals. Using its pressurized (aka. dual-wall) basket with not-too-stale preground coffee, you can get espresso that could be "good enough" for many, especially for milk drinks. If you end up enjoying it and decide to step it up, you'll then want to grind whole beans fresh for the non-pressurized basket with an espresso-capable grinder, for which "good enough" manual options currently start around $60 for a Timemore C2, and around $170-200 for electric grinders like Baratza Encore, Breville Smart Grinder Pro, or Fellow Opus. Then at some point, you might notice that sometimes your espresso is "good enough", but sometimes it's not, and sometimes the stars align and it tastes amazing. If you decide that you care enough to want it better more often, you'll want a bit more consistency. You'll first want a small 0.1g scale (like a $16 Weightman) to measure your grinds going in, and then going under your cup to measure the liquid coming out, stopping the shot manually at your desired weight instead of relying on the machine's water volume (a lot of which gets absorbed in the puck inconsistently), and observe on its timer how many seconds it took to get there. Now you can play around and find out what dose (coffee grams in) and ratio (grounds:liquid) and total shot time produce the shots you like, and replicate it every time by tweaking your weights and grind setting. You can adjust to different beans that you buy. You see that too much time/water makes shots bitter, and too little makes them sour. Then you might notice that sometimes the shot comes out unevenly in fast streams and manages to taste bitter AND sour, because it's finding paths of low resistance through unevenly compressed grounds, so you might start stirring your basket with a spiky tool (that you bought for $5 or made with needles on a wine cork) for a few seconds before tamping to distribute better. At this point your espresso is probably very often "good enough" or better. Also, for some reason, you are now considered an asshole, and you should have stuck to Aeropress or instant coffee.
- sundvor 4y ago
  Awesome post! :) I recently got the Smart Grinder Pro along with the Breville Dual Boiler, and I'm kind of blown away by the quality of espresso I can get from relatively cheap supermarket beans. I've really enjoyed this upgrade from their 870XL. It's a bit less forgiving thanks to the bigger/more shallow portafilter, but like anything I'm enjoying the learning process. After I quit alcohol a couple of years ago, I have no problems justifying spending a fraction of what that "habit" tends to cost people, on good coffee.

Unless you're ready to spend about 1000 bucks (at least 500 on a brewer and a similar amount on a grinder), IMHO I wouldn't try to replicate espresso at home. There's no real cheaper shortcut to getting real espresso--lower cost options can't evenly extract a puck of coffee and will give wildly different (and usually unsatisfying) results with every brew. IMHO I'd get an aeropress, moka pot, or similar setup for brewing good cups of coffee at home.

mekoka 4y ago
I disagree. For 50$ you can get a basic second-hand espresso maker that produces decent servings. 10$ gets you a grinder. I've tasted espresso from all kinds of makers. Admittedly, some were noticeably better. Very rarely it was because of the machine. Mostly it was the beans. So save all that money and reinvest it in testing various beans, until you find some you like. What does a 500$ grinder even do?
- chii 4y ago
  > For 50$ you can get a basic second-hand espresso maker that produces decent servings. i highly doubt you can get any espresso maker with $50 that produces the right pressure, consistently enough, and with evenly heat enough, to produce anything that someone would call espresso. The secondhand, $10 hand grinder _might_ be good, but most hand grinders aren't good enough to grind fine for espresso. The cheapest cost, real espresso is a manual press like the flair. These won't cost $50 secondhand.
  - mekoka 4y ago
    > i highly doubt you can get any espresso maker with $50 that produces the right pressure, consistently enough, and with evenly heat enough, to produce anything that someone would call espresso. I just did. I'll spare myself the snobbery in your remark and stand by mine. There's quite a bit of sophistry in how coffee is (subjectively) appreciated and my argument is based on one such observed fallacy. As a traveler, I've noted that the problem of finding a good espresso is common among people who would call themselves aficionados. I've also observed such people who would normally look down at the entry-level Breville or DeLonghi machines, with similar arguments to yours, be perfectly content with the output of a Staresso or Nanopresso when traveling/camping, even if it's admittedly not on par with what their high-end machine usually produces at home. Now, forgive the subjective argument, but I'd say that the popular Breville Roma produces a noticeably better espresso than either the Staresso or Nanopresso. If you like the latter, you should also be able to somewhat enjoy the former. Hop on Facebook Marketplace and I bet you could find a second-hand Roma for around 50$.
    - qbasic_forever 4y ago
      The roma and similar sub $100 espresso machines (I have a delonghi model in that category) use a pressurized basket and aren't really making espresso comparable to more expensive machines. Expensive machines have more powerful pumps and boilers that ensure a proper 15 bar of pressure delivered to the puck vs. the roma and similar pressurized basket machines have a valve in the bottom of the basket that forces the basket to build all the pressure. The end result is an inconsistent brew as pressurizing on the basket wreaks havoc on the puck. Basically these cheap machines are designed to give a lot of crema and a meh espresso shot. I've had more success with my machine after removing the valve and depressurizing the basket, but then you start to run into the limitations of the boiler and pump not being up to the task. It's why I said you really need to spend about 500 on a brewer to get espresso comparable to what you get at a coffee shop. This isn't snobbery or whatever you want to say, it's just a simple fact pressurized basket brewers don't work the same way and are difficult to get consistently good results--they're designed to make a pretty looking brew.
      - mekoka 4y ago
        Thanks for the detailed answer and insight. It opened up an interest in more closely comparing the shots one gets from machines in the different categories, to see how apart they really are.
      - chii 4y ago
        > really need to spend about 500 for an electric machine, yes, this is the basic minimum, but not for a manual lever machine (i would expect brand new to cost less than $250, and second hand to be around $150 in good condition). The most expensive part of espresso machine is the pump. If you for go that with a manual, lever espresso machine, you bring the cost down drastically. Ditto with grinder - a good manual grinder with good burrs capable of the fine grind for espresso can be had for around $100 bucks brand new.

slothtrop 4y ago

Use a moka pot for an espresso-like beverage that uses very cheap equipment, and follow Hoffman's method on youtube. Personally I prefer it to espresso because you get slightly more volume and a similar strong taste. Once you get it dialed in, it's downright amazing.

makeset 4y ago

For actual espresso, you need a proper espresso machine (and not just any appliance labeled as such). The Breville/Sage Bambino may be the most affordable entry-level machine worth recommending right now, selling as low as $200-250 on seasonal/store deals. Using its pressurized (aka. dual-wall) basket with not-too-stale preground coffee, you can get espresso that could be "good enough" for many, especially for milk drinks. If you end up enjoying it and decide to step it up, you'll then want to grind whole beans fresh for the non-pressurized basket with an espresso-capable grinder, for which "good enough" manual options currently start around $60 for a Timemore C2, and around $170-200 for electric grinders like Baratza Encore, Breville Smart Grinder Pro, or Fellow Opus. Then at some point, you might notice that sometimes your espresso is "good enough", but sometimes it's not, and sometimes the stars align and it tastes amazing. If you decide that you care enough to want it better more often, you'll want a bit more consistency. You'll first want a small 0.1g scale (like a $16 Weightman) to measure your grinds going in, and then going under your cup to measure the liquid coming out, stopping the shot manually at your desired weight instead of relying on the machine's water volume (a lot of which gets absorbed in the puck inconsistently), and observe on its timer how many seconds it took to get there. Now you can play around and find out what dose (coffee grams in) and ratio (grounds:liquid) and total shot time produce the shots you like, and replicate it every time by tweaking your weights and grind setting. You can adjust to different beans that you buy. You see that too much time/water makes shots bitter, and too little makes them sour. Then you might notice that sometimes the shot comes out unevenly in fast streams and manages to taste bitter AND sour, because it's finding paths of low resistance through unevenly compressed grounds, so you might start stirring your basket with a spiky tool (that you bought for $5 or made with needles on a wine cork) for a few seconds before tamping to distribute better. At this point your espresso is probably very often "good enough" or better. Also, for some reason, you are now considered an asshole, and you should have stuck to Aeropress or instant coffee.

sundvor 4y ago
Awesome post! :) I recently got the Smart Grinder Pro along with the Breville Dual Boiler, and I'm kind of blown away by the quality of espresso I can get from relatively cheap supermarket beans. I've really enjoyed this upgrade from their 870XL. It's a bit less forgiving thanks to the bigger/more shallow portafilter, but like anything I'm enjoying the learning process. After I quit alcohol a couple of years ago, I have no problems justifying spending a fraction of what that "habit" tends to cost people, on good coffee.