4 ms·

As much fun as it is to blame the Tories, this is global economics at work, not bad social policies. The UK no longer makes anything. We facilitate and service

As much fun as it is to blame the Tories, this is global economics at work, not bad social policies. The UK no longer makes anything. We facilitate and service. But that type of work only works for certain people, with certain skills, in certain areas. The same goes for many other western economies.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>The UK no longer makes anything What about Bentley, Rolls Royce, submarines, jet engines and other aero parts, luxury goods, Dr. WHO, Top Gear, short term politicians and more? Also buckfast ;)
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  This would be a case where it's important to remember that in everyday conversations absolute statements should usually be interpreted as relative statements. >> The UK no longer makes anything ≈≈ The UK has a weak manufacturing sector OR ≈≈ The UK does not manufacture much.
Oxidation 4y ago
> The UK no longer makes anything. The Tories are almost exclusively responsible for that. With education and long-term industrial policy, there could have been an enormous high-tech manufacturing sector underpinned by an educated workforce to replace the older primary industries like coal mining and "low secondary" like bulk steel. These policies should have started in the early 80s, but instead at that time they started slashing and selling. Germany has a lot of faults policy-wise, but they somehow managed to keep manufacturing despite spending trillions on reunification right in middle.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >Germany has a lot of faults policy-wise, but they somehow managed to keep manufacturing despite spending trillions on reunification right in middle. To be fair Germany's manufacturing sector has no secret sauce that Germany invented, but is a sector that managed to survive mostly due to cheap energy from Russian gas, which is now gone, and is highly dependent on a constant stream of mass migration keeping wages in manufacturing low and therefore the cost of German exports competitive.
  - Oxidation 4y ago
    I didn't say it was miracle (or "secret sauce", as it now reads), it was a result of decades of deliberate (and pretty ruthless, geopolitically speaking) policy. Which wasn't something the UK was somehow innately incapable of. One of the biggest German policy failures will probably turn out to be the lack of investment in nuclear power to underpin the next 50 years. Maybe their solar and wind efforts will be sufficient, or a battery revolution will fortuitously save the situation, but I have doubts.
  - deterministic 4y ago
    Nope. Germany most definitely has a secret sauce: the education system. It is structured very differently from the UK system with a heavy emphasis on high levels of technical skills. Cheap Russian gas has nothing to do with it. But it sure helps of course.
    - Oxidation 4y ago
      And respect for engineering as a discipline. Tell a German that an engineer came to install your internet cable and they'll look at you like you've grown a second head. Actual quote: "what could be wrong with it that needs an engineer to come out?" Meanwhile, someone British who heard I studied engineering: "are you going to do TV repair?"
      - deterministic 4y ago
        Yep agree. You can measure how well a nation is doing by how it treats technical skills. The finance industry that the UK is so proud of is actually a negative thing for the nations prosperity overall. It looks good on paper but creates very little real value.
chii 4y ago
> But that type of work only works for certain people, with certain skills, in certain areas. but this isn't a problem, unless people refuses to adapt and change to face this new economic reality. There's something to be said about lack of up-skilling programs funded by the govt, but why does the responsibility of one's life and financial wellbeing fall onto the govt, rather than themselves? On the other hand, brexit was a disaster, and is just pouring salt into the wound.
- xg15 4y ago
  As the saying goes, if you owe the bank a million, you have a problem; if you owe the bank a billion, the bank has a problem. If 45% of a country's adult population are somehow unable to "adapt to the new economic reality" then this is definitely a policy problem and not just a matter of "personal responsibility". > why does the responsibility of one's life and financial wellbeing fall onto the govt, rather than themselves? What is a government for if not that?
  - chii 4y ago
    > What is a government for if not that? to ensure that nobody but them has the force to interfere with another person's life, with the goal of maintaining order and peace.
deterministic 4y ago
Nope. Germany is doing very well in the same global economy thank you very much. It is 100% the fault of the people continuing to elect brain dead politicians and voting for things like Brexit. The only question remaining is how bad it will be. Right now the UK is in a nose dive with the pilots MIA.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>The UK no longer makes anything What about Bentley, Rolls Royce, submarines, jet engines and other aero parts, luxury goods, Dr. WHO, Top Gear, short term politicians and more? Also buckfast ;)

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
This would be a case where it's important to remember that in everyday conversations absolute statements should usually be interpreted as relative statements. >> The UK no longer makes anything ≈≈ The UK has a weak manufacturing sector OR ≈≈ The UK does not manufacture much.

Oxidation 4y ago

> The UK no longer makes anything. The Tories are almost exclusively responsible for that. With education and long-term industrial policy, there could have been an enormous high-tech manufacturing sector underpinned by an educated workforce to replace the older primary industries like coal mining and "low secondary" like bulk steel. These policies should have started in the early 80s, but instead at that time they started slashing and selling. Germany has a lot of faults policy-wise, but they somehow managed to keep manufacturing despite spending trillions on reunification right in middle.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Germany has a lot of faults policy-wise, but they somehow managed to keep manufacturing despite spending trillions on reunification right in middle. To be fair Germany's manufacturing sector has no secret sauce that Germany invented, but is a sector that managed to survive mostly due to cheap energy from Russian gas, which is now gone, and is highly dependent on a constant stream of mass migration keeping wages in manufacturing low and therefore the cost of German exports competitive.
- Oxidation 4y ago
  I didn't say it was miracle (or "secret sauce", as it now reads), it was a result of decades of deliberate (and pretty ruthless, geopolitically speaking) policy. Which wasn't something the UK was somehow innately incapable of. One of the biggest German policy failures will probably turn out to be the lack of investment in nuclear power to underpin the next 50 years. Maybe their solar and wind efforts will be sufficient, or a battery revolution will fortuitously save the situation, but I have doubts.
- deterministic 4y ago
  Nope. Germany most definitely has a secret sauce: the education system. It is structured very differently from the UK system with a heavy emphasis on high levels of technical skills. Cheap Russian gas has nothing to do with it. But it sure helps of course.
  - Oxidation 4y ago
    And respect for engineering as a discipline. Tell a German that an engineer came to install your internet cable and they'll look at you like you've grown a second head. Actual quote: "what could be wrong with it that needs an engineer to come out?" Meanwhile, someone British who heard I studied engineering: "are you going to do TV repair?"
    - deterministic 4y ago
      Yep agree. You can measure how well a nation is doing by how it treats technical skills. The finance industry that the UK is so proud of is actually a negative thing for the nations prosperity overall. It looks good on paper but creates very little real value.

chii 4y ago

> But that type of work only works for certain people, with certain skills, in certain areas. but this isn't a problem, unless people refuses to adapt and change to face this new economic reality. There's something to be said about lack of up-skilling programs funded by the govt, but why does the responsibility of one's life and financial wellbeing fall onto the govt, rather than themselves? On the other hand, brexit was a disaster, and is just pouring salt into the wound.

xg15 4y ago
As the saying goes, if you owe the bank a million, you have a problem; if you owe the bank a billion, the bank has a problem. If 45% of a country's adult population are somehow unable to "adapt to the new economic reality" then this is definitely a policy problem and not just a matter of "personal responsibility". > why does the responsibility of one's life and financial wellbeing fall onto the govt, rather than themselves? What is a government for if not that?
- chii 4y ago
  > What is a government for if not that? to ensure that nobody but them has the force to interfere with another person's life, with the goal of maintaining order and peace.

deterministic 4y ago

Nope. Germany is doing very well in the same global economy thank you very much. It is 100% the fault of the people continuing to elect brain dead politicians and voting for things like Brexit. The only question remaining is how bad it will be. Right now the UK is in a nose dive with the pilots MIA.