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I don't understand how like maybe a solo curious developer could ever get into this stuff. Having to pay even a small fee to like run your program, do anything

I don't understand how like maybe a solo curious developer could ever get into this stuff. Having to pay even a small fee to like run your program, do anything at all, is an utter nightmare to me. Maybe I'm not smart enough and need to rely too much on lots of troubleshooting, recompiling, etc, when I make stuff... I learned programming and love it to this day because it was something I could explore and learn for no money at all, only my shitty chromebook I figured out how to get linux on, and a lot of patience. Even if everything else they say is true about it, it seems to be built around the assumption of having not-insignificant capital. It's a very strange "revolution" to me in this sense, much like the "OpenAI token fees are now our overlord" revolution that people are hyped about as well.

williamcotton 4y ago
One word: testnet
- beepbooptheory 4y ago
  Ok yeah.. This does address this a little I see. But am I correct that the only thing you can make with Ethereum is stuff that ultimately costs money? Either for you or the users? Is there any similar thing to like free static file hosting through github, or just either way making something cool you want to share for free because its cool/useful. Or does someone always have to give their cc number/wallet at the end of the day?
  - williamcotton 4y ago
    I guess you could subsidize your users like how you subsidize their web hosting costs, eg, when you let them upload and share photos. It seems as though products geared around some kind of digital asset would expect users to be buying and selling and therefore already prepared to have some kind of money.
    - kkielhofner 4y ago
      Except storing data on chain is insanely expensive (impossible) which is where bolt on adjacent technologies like IPFS, Filecoin, Arweave, etc come in. Have you looked at IPFS pinning hosting costs? It's usually a multiple (between storage and bandwidth) of what you'd pay on S3 or similar. Even running your own node comes with so many operational challenges and consumes an INSANE amount of bandwidth and resources self-hosting for anything beyond a toy personal project gets prohibitive very quickly. The same cheap VPS that can do at least 1k TPS for static files with Nginx (or whatever) probably can't even launch go-ipfs (kubo). So now not only are you (or your users) paying for every database transaction (on chain) your fundamental cost basis is a multiple of what it is today.
      - beepbooptheory 4y ago
        I have noticed that about IPFS myself, such a shame for something otherwise pretty neat. Just crossing my fingers that Web4's utopian innovation is the opposite of this: everything is free, "transactions" are obsolete, we can just share for fun, not profit. I'd be the annoying proselytizer for that internet at the drop of a hat.
kurisufag 4y ago
I imagine there are testnets of some kind.

williamcotton 4y ago

One word: testnet

beepbooptheory 4y ago
Ok yeah.. This does address this a little I see. But am I correct that the only thing you can make with Ethereum is stuff that ultimately costs money? Either for you or the users? Is there any similar thing to like free static file hosting through github, or just either way making something cool you want to share for free because its cool/useful. Or does someone always have to give their cc number/wallet at the end of the day?
- williamcotton 4y ago
  I guess you could subsidize your users like how you subsidize their web hosting costs, eg, when you let them upload and share photos. It seems as though products geared around some kind of digital asset would expect users to be buying and selling and therefore already prepared to have some kind of money.
  - kkielhofner 4y ago
    Except storing data on chain is insanely expensive (impossible) which is where bolt on adjacent technologies like IPFS, Filecoin, Arweave, etc come in. Have you looked at IPFS pinning hosting costs? It's usually a multiple (between storage and bandwidth) of what you'd pay on S3 or similar. Even running your own node comes with so many operational challenges and consumes an INSANE amount of bandwidth and resources self-hosting for anything beyond a toy personal project gets prohibitive very quickly. The same cheap VPS that can do at least 1k TPS for static files with Nginx (or whatever) probably can't even launch go-ipfs (kubo). So now not only are you (or your users) paying for every database transaction (on chain) your fundamental cost basis is a multiple of what it is today.
    - beepbooptheory 4y ago
      I have noticed that about IPFS myself, such a shame for something otherwise pretty neat. Just crossing my fingers that Web4's utopian innovation is the opposite of this: everything is free, "transactions" are obsolete, we can just share for fun, not profit. I'd be the annoying proselytizer for that internet at the drop of a hat.

kurisufag 4y ago

I imagine there are testnets of some kind.