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Camouflaging autistic traits linked to internalizing symptoms anxiety depression

65 points by DocFeind 4y ago

kelseyfrog 4y ago
Maybe I have something to learn, but isn't that obviously true?
- fl0ps 4y ago
  Agreed. I could swear this has been actively stated in literature previously.
- lizknope 4y ago
  This seems like one of those blindingly obvious things. The comments on the reddit thread were more informative. If someone is autistic or thinks they might be then these comments from autistic people describing how they feel might help more and lead to getting help if they need it. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/119ho15/camouflaging_of_autistic_traits_linked_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/119ho15/camouflagi...
- RobotToaster 4y ago
  A lot of psychological studies are devoted to "proving" what are moorean facts to anyone with first hand experience of the subject.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Maybe I have something to learn, but isn’t that obviously true? Many things which people find intuitively to be “obviously true” turn out, and structured investigation, to be false (often false apparent effects from some other cause, etc.), so structured confirmation of the intuitively “obviously true” is valuable. OTOH, I think that this isn’t obviously true to most people, independent of background and lived experience. Maybe to most people with a certain experience pattern…
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
Yes, but it's necessary. Because just be yourself works well in Disney movies, but IRL, we have social norms and many reward/punishment systems depending on how much and often you deviate from them. So you have to find a balance between being genuine and fitting in. Everybody does, but for some of us, it's more costly. Usually, the balance is achieved by having different groups in which you can adjust the cursor differently, like work, friends and family, if you are lucky.
- 11235813213455 4y ago
  There's a difference between adaptation (you do your best to fit in, knowing yourself, but you accept your difference) and camouflaging (imply you're afraid of how you look to others, so this is paralysing you, it creates anxiety, etc..)
  - itronitron 4y ago
    That difference is self-confidence, and it's both foolish and disingenuous to label all people that have lacked self-confidence at some point as autistic.
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    Everyone who camouflages once expressed themselves to the world.
  - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
    When you are on the spectrum, no, there isn't. It's not about you. It's about others. And a lot of it about what things appear, not what they are. That's not shocking to an autist. That's factual. We don't mind factual, we mind intent. Just like I don't mind what you state, I do mind the virtue signaling it attempts.
- Nasrudith 4y ago
  Except when it comes to bullying. Apparently bullies can be themselves all they want and they get supported because reasons.
glacials 4y ago
In the autism community we call this "masking" and it is not the least bit surprising to read this. I did not begin to learn I had anxiety or autism until I was 30 years old, and it's because the world trained me to hide away those parts of myself. I did not realize I was masking for most of my life -- most do not since it's the only way they've ever lived -- but it is enormously taxing to be around people. Everyone seems to be communicating over a different protocol than you in such a natural way. But you have to study it, prepare for it, and then run an emulation layer in realtime, all to appear normal and natural. This leaves less brainpower for other things and leads to mental exhaustion very quickly. I recently heard it described as never being able to speak your mother tongue. If you would like to read more about my experiences I wrote them down in an essay form [1]. I'd also recommend the Dave's Garage YouTube channel, by ex-Microsoft engineer Dave Plummer. [2] He does a great job of pitching autism as less a disorder and more an evolutionarily necessary mutation for the odd person here or there to have. I'm very glad these studies are being done and I commend them. I also wish there were a bit of focus on adults with autism, who are often left out of the picture. [1]: https://twos.dev/autism.html https://twos.dev/autism.html [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9X5DSnVms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9X5DSnVms
- itronitron 4y ago
  Everyone does this, except maybe narcissists, sociopaths, and people on drugs.
  - beepbooptheory 4y ago
    I think maybe you can affirm this point without losing sight of the particularity of how it manifests for this population. Or really, maybe its ok to not say anything at all here about something maybe you don't have epistemic access to?
    - itronitron 4y ago
      I would stay out of it except that the studies are starting to claim that people are autistic because they are suppressing (or not displaying) behaviors that have been categorized as autistic.
MarkusWandel 4y ago
What geek hasn't been told that they need to just try harder to fit in with the neurotypical non-geeks and then all will be well? I have, in my younger years, where all the non-geeks seemed to have satisfying social lives and I didn't. So all along the instinct was right. That I'm me, and if I don't fit in, it'll make me miserable, but not as miserable as trying desperately to fit in. Time cures many things. At the age I'm at now, I'm comfortable being me, with my hobbies and my social preferences (admittedly, even without trying you learn to effortlessly "fake" more and more socially normal stuff - but you can also select your friends from a compatiple geek level). Not uncomfortable always trying to be someone else.
- est31 4y ago
  > I have, in my younger years, where all the non-geeks seemed to have satisfying social lives and I didn't. Note that while I agree that autists are often isolated, the phenomenon you described exists for neurotypicals too. It's the social network paradox: most of your friends will have more friends than you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox
- mock-possum 4y ago
  Also the older you get, the more of your peers reach the same realization, and you may find you have an easier time finding a community you’re more comfortable letting your freak flag fly in.
jcadam 4y ago
I would think so. Two of my three children are autistic. My wife (who definitely is not), tells me that after raising autistic children and observing my behaviors while at home (i.e., "in my comfort zone") vs. in social situations that I am as well. I'm kinda surprised she stuck around after really getting to know me. "You should go get a diagnosis." My response is always "What good would that do?" Yes, my anxiety levels are generally lower since I started working from home. I only have to control myself during video calls, which is much easier :D
- glacials 4y ago
  I encourage you to seek out communities online even without a diagnosis! Many identify as self-diagnosed for the same reason you stated. I've learned a lot of tips and tricks that have helped me (and my wife) deal with it.
- isodude 4y ago
  > What good would that do? It's fine to just accept things for what they are, but a lot of things does not have to be that way. Would you do everything in your power to help your kids/wife? A diagnose would rather be a way to add a bunch of new tools in your toolbox. Showing your kids that they have the same thing as you might give them a better time identifying with their diagnose as well (the saying goes, I'm just like my dad, right?). Avoiding things to have a well functioning life should not be the normal, I guess that's why your wife thinks you should go get diagnosed, why not let her have some influence on you? She seems like a keeper. Figure stuff out while the climate at home is accepting, rather when it's war. Accepting a diagnose is never easy and it takes a good partner to figure that out. From my own understanding, living with a social person that can intercept stupid ideas before they take fruit really helps. Keeps those close around at all times! :D

65 points by DocFeind 4y ago

kelseyfrog 4y ago

Maybe I have something to learn, but isn't that obviously true?

fl0ps 4y ago
Agreed. I could swear this has been actively stated in literature previously.
lizknope 4y ago
This seems like one of those blindingly obvious things. The comments on the reddit thread were more informative. If someone is autistic or thinks they might be then these comments from autistic people describing how they feel might help more and lead to getting help if they need it. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/119ho15/camouflaging_of_autistic_traits_linked_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/119ho15/camouflagi...
RobotToaster 4y ago
A lot of psychological studies are devoted to "proving" what are moorean facts to anyone with first hand experience of the subject.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Maybe I have something to learn, but isn’t that obviously true? Many things which people find intuitively to be “obviously true” turn out, and structured investigation, to be false (often false apparent effects from some other cause, etc.), so structured confirmation of the intuitively “obviously true” is valuable. OTOH, I think that this isn’t obviously true to most people, independent of background and lived experience. Maybe to most people with a certain experience pattern…

BiteCode_dev 4y ago

Yes, but it's necessary. Because just be yourself works well in Disney movies, but IRL, we have social norms and many reward/punishment systems depending on how much and often you deviate from them. So you have to find a balance between being genuine and fitting in. Everybody does, but for some of us, it's more costly. Usually, the balance is achieved by having different groups in which you can adjust the cursor differently, like work, friends and family, if you are lucky.

11235813213455 4y ago
There's a difference between adaptation (you do your best to fit in, knowing yourself, but you accept your difference) and camouflaging (imply you're afraid of how you look to others, so this is paralysing you, it creates anxiety, etc..)
- itronitron 4y ago
  That difference is self-confidence, and it's both foolish and disingenuous to label all people that have lacked self-confidence at some point as autistic.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  Everyone who camouflages once expressed themselves to the world.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  When you are on the spectrum, no, there isn't. It's not about you. It's about others. And a lot of it about what things appear, not what they are. That's not shocking to an autist. That's factual. We don't mind factual, we mind intent. Just like I don't mind what you state, I do mind the virtue signaling it attempts.
Nasrudith 4y ago
Except when it comes to bullying. Apparently bullies can be themselves all they want and they get supported because reasons.

glacials 4y ago

In the autism community we call this "masking" and it is not the least bit surprising to read this. I did not begin to learn I had anxiety or autism until I was 30 years old, and it's because the world trained me to hide away those parts of myself. I did not realize I was masking for most of my life -- most do not since it's the only way they've ever lived -- but it is enormously taxing to be around people. Everyone seems to be communicating over a different protocol than you in such a natural way. But you have to study it, prepare for it, and then run an emulation layer in realtime, all to appear normal and natural. This leaves less brainpower for other things and leads to mental exhaustion very quickly. I recently heard it described as never being able to speak your mother tongue. If you would like to read more about my experiences I wrote them down in an essay form [1]. I'd also recommend the Dave's Garage YouTube channel, by ex-Microsoft engineer Dave Plummer. [2] He does a great job of pitching autism as less a disorder and more an evolutionarily necessary mutation for the odd person here or there to have. I'm very glad these studies are being done and I commend them. I also wish there were a bit of focus on adults with autism, who are often left out of the picture. [1]: https://twos.dev/autism.html https://twos.dev/autism.html [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9X5DSnVms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9X5DSnVms

itronitron 4y ago
Everyone does this, except maybe narcissists, sociopaths, and people on drugs.
- beepbooptheory 4y ago
  I think maybe you can affirm this point without losing sight of the particularity of how it manifests for this population. Or really, maybe its ok to not say anything at all here about something maybe you don't have epistemic access to?
  - itronitron 4y ago
    I would stay out of it except that the studies are starting to claim that people are autistic because they are suppressing (or not displaying) behaviors that have been categorized as autistic.

MarkusWandel 4y ago

What geek hasn't been told that they need to just try harder to fit in with the neurotypical non-geeks and then all will be well? I have, in my younger years, where all the non-geeks seemed to have satisfying social lives and I didn't. So all along the instinct was right. That I'm me, and if I don't fit in, it'll make me miserable, but not as miserable as trying desperately to fit in. Time cures many things. At the age I'm at now, I'm comfortable being me, with my hobbies and my social preferences (admittedly, even without trying you learn to effortlessly "fake" more and more socially normal stuff - but you can also select your friends from a compatiple geek level). Not uncomfortable always trying to be someone else.

est31 4y ago
> I have, in my younger years, where all the non-geeks seemed to have satisfying social lives and I didn't. Note that while I agree that autists are often isolated, the phenomenon you described exists for neurotypicals too. It's the social network paradox: most of your friends will have more friends than you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox
mock-possum 4y ago
Also the older you get, the more of your peers reach the same realization, and you may find you have an easier time finding a community you’re more comfortable letting your freak flag fly in.

jcadam 4y ago

I would think so. Two of my three children are autistic. My wife (who definitely is not), tells me that after raising autistic children and observing my behaviors while at home (i.e., "in my comfort zone") vs. in social situations that I am as well. I'm kinda surprised she stuck around after really getting to know me. "You should go get a diagnosis." My response is always "What good would that do?" Yes, my anxiety levels are generally lower since I started working from home. I only have to control myself during video calls, which is much easier :D

glacials 4y ago
I encourage you to seek out communities online even without a diagnosis! Many identify as self-diagnosed for the same reason you stated. I've learned a lot of tips and tricks that have helped me (and my wife) deal with it.
isodude 4y ago
> What good would that do? It's fine to just accept things for what they are, but a lot of things does not have to be that way. Would you do everything in your power to help your kids/wife? A diagnose would rather be a way to add a bunch of new tools in your toolbox. Showing your kids that they have the same thing as you might give them a better time identifying with their diagnose as well (the saying goes, I'm just like my dad, right?). Avoiding things to have a well functioning life should not be the normal, I guess that's why your wife thinks you should go get diagnosed, why not let her have some influence on you? She seems like a keeper. Figure stuff out while the climate at home is accepting, rather when it's war. Accepting a diagnose is never easy and it takes a good partner to figure that out. From my own understanding, living with a social person that can intercept stupid ideas before they take fruit really helps. Keeps those close around at all times! :D