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I really do not like that you continue to call these students ignorant and arrogant.

by onli 4y ago

Dalewyn 4y ago
Are they not? The rules clearly state "no Github", and when confronted with that fact their response is "it's stupid" and to go off on tangents about Github this and Github that. That's being ignorant of the rules, and being arrogant when you are told to abide them next time.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > The rules clearly state "no Github" Did you actually read the rules? "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted." That rule is NOT clear; it implies that Github is forbidden specifically as a "site that generates HTML". There's no reason to interpret it as meaning that you can't even link to a service that happens to provide templating and HTML generation, and which you are actually using only as a SCCS. I would certainly interpret that rule as meaning that you can't use template engines or HTML generators. Which they didn't. I would not interpret it as meaning that you can't use anything provided by a service that ALSO supports templating and code generation. The teacher was a dick.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    The rule is "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files ... are NOT permitted." and goes on to mention an inexhaustive list of examples which names Github among others. That is abundantly clear you cannot use Github. If you didn't read the rules, that's ignorance. If you read the rules and knowingly violate them, that's arrogance. If you unintentionally violate the rules but rebuff fair judgments as stupid, that's also arrogance. If you argue pedantics to try and find loopholes, you're an asshole. It boggles the mind why "no Github" is such a controversial point.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - richbell 4y ago
      > The rule is "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files ... are NOT permitted." and goes on to mention an inexhaustive list of examples which names Github among others. > That is abundantly clear you cannot use Github. This would be like calling someone ignorant and arrogant because they were browsing hackernews at school and a clueless administrator thought it was a criminal website.
      - lelanthran 4y ago
        > This would be like calling someone ignorant and arrogant because they were browsing hackernews at school and a clueless administrator thought it was a criminal website. Well if the school specifically forbid Hackernews, and mentioned it by name in the list of forbidden sites ....
        richbell 4y ago
        "Sorry, the rules clearly state that you can't browse websites that promote hacking or other criminal behaviour, like hackernews. It doesn't matter that HN isn't actually a criminal website, we must always unquestioningly follow rules."
        lelanthran 4y ago
        > "Sorry, the rules clearly state that you can't browse websites that promote hacking or other criminal behaviour, like hackernews. It doesn't matter that HN isn't actually a criminal website, we must always unquestioningly follow rules." It's childish and immature, in a competition, to question the rules only after you have been caught breaking them. I never said rules should not be questioned, I said that you should question them before agreeing to them, not after you have been caught.
        4y ago
- dutchCourage 4y ago
  Rules are inherently subject to interpretation. I actually learned the opposite of what you're preaching in school. I struggled to shorten a report to meet requirements. A friend of mine was 10 pages over the limit and went on to win a laptop with his report. Some rules are more akin to guidelines, turns out. It's not unreasonable to interpret this instances' rule as "no templates" rather than "no GitHub".
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    The rule is: "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files ..." Followed by an inexhaustive list of examples: "such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit ... " Finally closing off with a strongly emphasized: " ... are NOT permitted." No matter the interpretation, you're not supposed to use something that can automagically generate HTML, which Github absolutely is one such example. Whether you "only" use Github as a file repository is irrelevant, you are not allowed to use Github, nor all the others, nor examples not named. For what it's worth, I will point out that Rule G (permits use of "state-of-the-art web-based applications") and Rule H (permits selective use of Wordpress, Joomla, et al.) are in conflict with Rule I (this rule) because such tools and underlying tools like PHP and JavaScript are "tools that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files". If rules should be reconsidered, they are Rules G and H.
    - dutchCourage 4y ago
      Sometimes rules are poorly written, outdated or straight up mistaken. I doubt the original intent of the rule was to disallow GitHub as a collaboration tool since it's the largest coding collaboration tool out there. It's even its primary use case . Interpreting the rule as what it meant to be seems appropriate to me. The world isn't as rigid as you paint it to be. If you were to really code a website without tools capable of generating html from text you'd find yourself coding with pen and paper.
- onli 4y ago
  They are not.
- cxr 4y ago
  > their response is "it's stupid" You're going to need to cite a source for that one, skipper. On the (what appears at this point to be the not unreasonable) chance that you just made that up, and on the topic of what not to do: false quotes on HN. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13602947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13602947> <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15892014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15892014>
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    >> their response is "it's stupid" > You're going to need to cite a source for that one, skipper. This comes pretty close: making fun of the person who enforced the rule that GitHub is not allowed: > You heard it here first folks, GitHub IS NOT the industry standard for hosting code collaboration and version control through Git, an expected tool for anyone entering the industry and a priceless skill for any aspiring developer.
    - cxr 4y ago
      That's not a quote. Where can the words "it's stupid" be found? Here, let me show you a quote: > > lecturing everyone "No, you really want to have 0 risk, you fools" > On HN, please don't use quotation marks that make it look like you're quoting someone when you're not. It may seem a minor point, but we've found that it's important for clarity and respect. > Also, "lecturing everyone" is borderline name-calling, which the site guidelines ask you not to do: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. (From one of my earlier links.) See? That's how quotes work. Someone actually said those things.
      - lelanthran 4y ago
        > See? That's how quotes work. See, if you're going to make fun of someone because you think that they are ignorant of some piece of tech, then people are going to point out that you're no smarter, when you were ignorant of the rules.
        4y ago

I really do not like that you continue to call these students ignorant and arrogant.

by onli 4y ago

I really do not like that you continue to call these students ignorant and arrogant.

Are they not? The rules clearly state "no Github", and when confronted with that fact their response is "it's stupid" and to go off on tangents about Github this and Github that. That's being ignorant of the rules, and being arrogant when you are told to abide them next time.

denton-scratch 4y ago
> The rules clearly state "no Github" Did you actually read the rules? "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted." That rule is NOT clear; it implies that Github is forbidden specifically as a "site that generates HTML". There's no reason to interpret it as meaning that you can't even link to a service that happens to provide templating and HTML generation, and which you are actually using only as a SCCS. I would certainly interpret that rule as meaning that you can't use template engines or HTML generators. Which they didn't. I would not interpret it as meaning that you can't use anything provided by a service that ALSO supports templating and code generation. The teacher was a dick.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The rule is "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files ... are NOT permitted." and goes on to mention an inexhaustive list of examples which names Github among others. That is abundantly clear you cannot use Github. If you didn't read the rules, that's ignorance. If you read the rules and knowingly violate them, that's arrogance. If you unintentionally violate the rules but rebuff fair judgments as stupid, that's also arrogance. If you argue pedantics to try and find loopholes, you're an asshole. It boggles the mind why "no Github" is such a controversial point.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - richbell 4y ago
    > The rule is "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files ... are NOT permitted." and goes on to mention an inexhaustive list of examples which names Github among others. > That is abundantly clear you cannot use Github. This would be like calling someone ignorant and arrogant because they were browsing hackernews at school and a clueless administrator thought it was a criminal website.
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > This would be like calling someone ignorant and arrogant because they were browsing hackernews at school and a clueless administrator thought it was a criminal website. Well if the school specifically forbid Hackernews, and mentioned it by name in the list of forbidden sites ....
      - richbell 4y ago
        "Sorry, the rules clearly state that you can't browse websites that promote hacking or other criminal behaviour, like hackernews. It doesn't matter that HN isn't actually a criminal website, we must always unquestioningly follow rules."
        lelanthran 4y ago
        > "Sorry, the rules clearly state that you can't browse websites that promote hacking or other criminal behaviour, like hackernews. It doesn't matter that HN isn't actually a criminal website, we must always unquestioningly follow rules." It's childish and immature, in a competition, to question the rules only after you have been caught breaking them. I never said rules should not be questioned, I said that you should question them before agreeing to them, not after you have been caught.
        4y ago
dutchCourage 4y ago
Rules are inherently subject to interpretation. I actually learned the opposite of what you're preaching in school. I struggled to shorten a report to meet requirements. A friend of mine was 10 pages over the limit and went on to win a laptop with his report. Some rules are more akin to guidelines, turns out. It's not unreasonable to interpret this instances' rule as "no templates" rather than "no GitHub".
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The rule is: "Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files ..." Followed by an inexhaustive list of examples: "such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit ... " Finally closing off with a strongly emphasized: " ... are NOT permitted." No matter the interpretation, you're not supposed to use something that can automagically generate HTML, which Github absolutely is one such example. Whether you "only" use Github as a file repository is irrelevant, you are not allowed to use Github, nor all the others, nor examples not named. For what it's worth, I will point out that Rule G (permits use of "state-of-the-art web-based applications") and Rule H (permits selective use of Wordpress, Joomla, et al.) are in conflict with Rule I (this rule) because such tools and underlying tools like PHP and JavaScript are "tools that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files". If rules should be reconsidered, they are Rules G and H.
  - dutchCourage 4y ago
    Sometimes rules are poorly written, outdated or straight up mistaken. I doubt the original intent of the rule was to disallow GitHub as a collaboration tool since it's the largest coding collaboration tool out there. It's even its primary use case . Interpreting the rule as what it meant to be seems appropriate to me. The world isn't as rigid as you paint it to be. If you were to really code a website without tools capable of generating html from text you'd find yourself coding with pen and paper.
onli 4y ago
They are not.
cxr 4y ago
> their response is "it's stupid" You're going to need to cite a source for that one, skipper. On the (what appears at this point to be the not unreasonable) chance that you just made that up, and on the topic of what not to do: false quotes on HN. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13602947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13602947> <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15892014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15892014>
- lelanthran 4y ago
  >> their response is "it's stupid" > You're going to need to cite a source for that one, skipper. This comes pretty close: making fun of the person who enforced the rule that GitHub is not allowed: > You heard it here first folks, GitHub IS NOT the industry standard for hosting code collaboration and version control through Git, an expected tool for anyone entering the industry and a priceless skill for any aspiring developer.
  - cxr 4y ago
    That's not a quote. Where can the words "it's stupid" be found? Here, let me show you a quote: > > lecturing everyone "No, you really want to have 0 risk, you fools" > On HN, please don't use quotation marks that make it look like you're quoting someone when you're not. It may seem a minor point, but we've found that it's important for clarity and respect. > Also, "lecturing everyone" is borderline name-calling, which the site guidelines ask you not to do: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. (From one of my earlier links.) See? That's how quotes work. Someone actually said those things.
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > See? That's how quotes work. See, if you're going to make fun of someone because you think that they are ignorant of some piece of tech, then people are going to point out that you're no smarter, when you were ignorant of the rules.
      - 4y ago