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Given that the author is Marco (and the article is on HN because it is from Marco Arment), I wonder what his boycott position is regarding Apple? Apple has a lo

Given that the author is Marco (and the article is on HN because it is from Marco Arment), I wonder what his boycott position is regarding Apple? Apple has a long history of supporting draconian IP policies, and has a business model built around controlling what you can do with what you bought. Financially Apple absolutely dwarfs the combined revenue of all of the MPAA realm. I don't mean to distract the conversation or hate on Apple, but it's a very pertinent question -- Marco and friends defend Apple's right to control their devices and their content, but are up in arms about media companies doing the same? Explain the reasoning why one company has the right to limit your freedoms while another doesn't? (*- I will happily provide numerous citations of both Marco defending Apple draconian policies, and Apple supporting jackboot government-backed IP protections)

funkah 15y ago
His bedrock assumption is that MPAA companies hate their customers, and that is why he suggests a boycott. But if you asked him the same thing about Apple, he would say that they like their customers, and want to delight them. You might not agree with him about whether these organizations really hold these stances toward their customers, but his argument flows from these two underlying assumptions.
larrik 15y ago
I'll throw my hat in the ring here. After I upvote you for starting a good discussion (which it seems few people ever do on HN). The MAJOR difference I see is that Apple does what it does, and doesn't hide behind a lobbying group to take the heat. They say "this is the way we are going to do this, because it is better." We may not agree, and I usually don't, but whatever. The movie studios, however, let the MPAA do all the dirty work and get all scorn. That way, MPAA == evil corporate mongers, while, say Warner Brothers == "ooh, Dark Knight Rising comes out this year!!!" Boycotting MPAA's member companies is a way to say we see through their crap, and aren't going to put up with it.
daeken 15y ago
DRM and hacker-unfriendly hardware protections are bad for the people using those products. Laws like SOPA are bad for everyone. It's quite possible to support Apple's lockdown without supporting the neutering of the internet.
- groggles 15y ago
  Indeed, but the piece is primarily anti-MPAA. See- "The MPAA studios hate us. They hate us with region locks and unskippable screens and encryption and criminalization of fair use. They see us as stupid eyeballs with wallets, and they are entitled to a constant stream of our money. They despise us, and they certainly don’t respect us."
Anechoic 15y ago
Explain the reasoning why one company has the right to limit your freedoms while another doesn't? If you look at the specific examples Marco spelled out (" region locks and unskippable screens and encryption and criminalization of fair use.") those are restrictions that benefit only the studios and inconvenience the customer. The iOS restrictions Apple propagates benefit Apple, but for many customers (not HN types) they are beneficial. It's a fine line, and Apple has had their share of jackboot actions but it can be argued that it's not exactly the same. As for Apple defending Apple policies, I'd bet most of those examples demonstrate the benefit to consumers. (and has he defended the really egregious Apple missteps, like the security officer pretending to be a police officer?)
- kapitalx 15y ago
  Your comparison is invalid. Apple's bootloader locks are a better comparison (Not referring to SIM lock which is provider mandated). Or the fact that you can't change batteries on your devices? Seems to me the purpose behind that is for you to change your device when the battery can't hold a good enough charge instead of just changing the batteries! How does that benefit the consumer? HTC removes bootloader locks: http://www.pcworld.com/article/228823/htc_ends_locked_bootloader_policy.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/228823/htc_ends_locked_bootlo...
  - eurleif 15y ago
    I believe Apple's stated reason for the battery thing is that the mechanism for making a battery removable takes up a lot of space, and by getting rid of it, they can make the actual battery bigger.
    - api 15y ago
      That is true, and you can replace the battery. Doing so voids your warranty, but by the time your Li-Polymer battery no longer holds a charge your laptop will be out of warranty anyway, even with AppleCare. All you need is a screwdriver. But Apple does support a lot of draconian IP policy. I think they're in need of a whipping over this.
iamandrus 15y ago
Apple has draconian restrictions on stuff like iOS for the user's sake (and for Apple's partially), and with the huge amount of users they obviously got that right. I'm not entirely sure what Apple's stance on SOPA is (I heard they supported it, but then I heard they didn't), but I don't think it would matter to them. They don't need to sue for piracy because they have the iTunes Store, which only distributes content. Apple even removed the DRM from their iTunes Store media a few years ago. They don't limit your freedom in the way that SOPA or PIPA will. You're comparing two completely different industries.
- mikeash 15y ago
  I could say that the MPAA's restrictions are also for the viewer's sake, and with the huge amount of viewers they obviously got that right. I don't believe it, but I don't see where it's wrong but the equivalent for Apple is right. Personally, I think Apple's policies are more destructive. They're doing a pretty decent job of convincing an entire generation that locked-down, manufacturer-controlled computing is good. Not that I'm boycotting them....
  - api 15y ago
    I agree, and I'd kind of like to boycott Apple at this point. But the problem is that I need to get my work done, and Apple has a monopoly. On what? On decent UI design and hardware/software that "just works." Linux UIs are getting slightly better with Gnome 3 and Unity, but they still suck. (And they're getting better by copying Apple.) Windows UIs have been getting worse since XP. (All the good features in Windows 7 are copied from Apple, like their Expose equivalent.) Neither OS offers anything like the plug-and-go and design cleanliness that Apple offers. It really makes a difference in terms of productivity. I know how to futz around with my machine to make it work, but I have better things to do with my time. Until either a competitor or the open source community can offer good design -- which matters -- I am stuck with Apple. BTW, I'll give you all a hint on good design: minimal is a synonym for good. Exterminate features.
    - bad_user 15y ago
rmc 15y ago
Although there are a lot of people here that like Apple products and support their policies, there are also lots of people here who use Free Software/Open Source. Lots of us are already boycotting lots of companies that don't fit what our ethics are. I'm a hacker, Hacker News community member, and a FLOSS user/developer, and I oppose Apple's draconian policies.

funkah 15y ago

His bedrock assumption is that MPAA companies hate their customers, and that is why he suggests a boycott. But if you asked him the same thing about Apple, he would say that they like their customers, and want to delight them. You might not agree with him about whether these organizations really hold these stances toward their customers, but his argument flows from these two underlying assumptions.

larrik 15y ago

I'll throw my hat in the ring here. After I upvote you for starting a good discussion (which it seems few people ever do on HN). The MAJOR difference I see is that Apple does what it does, and doesn't hide behind a lobbying group to take the heat. They say "this is the way we are going to do this, because it is better." We may not agree, and I usually don't, but whatever. The movie studios, however, let the MPAA do all the dirty work and get all scorn. That way, MPAA == evil corporate mongers, while, say Warner Brothers == "ooh, Dark Knight Rising comes out this year!!!" Boycotting MPAA's member companies is a way to say we see through their crap, and aren't going to put up with it.

daeken 15y ago

DRM and hacker-unfriendly hardware protections are bad for the people using those products. Laws like SOPA are bad for everyone. It's quite possible to support Apple's lockdown without supporting the neutering of the internet.

groggles 15y ago
Indeed, but the piece is primarily anti-MPAA. See- "The MPAA studios hate us. They hate us with region locks and unskippable screens and encryption and criminalization of fair use. They see us as stupid eyeballs with wallets, and they are entitled to a constant stream of our money. They despise us, and they certainly don’t respect us."

Anechoic 15y ago

Explain the reasoning why one company has the right to limit your freedoms while another doesn't? If you look at the specific examples Marco spelled out (" region locks and unskippable screens and encryption and criminalization of fair use.") those are restrictions that benefit only the studios and inconvenience the customer. The iOS restrictions Apple propagates benefit Apple, but for many customers (not HN types) they are beneficial. It's a fine line, and Apple has had their share of jackboot actions but it can be argued that it's not exactly the same. As for Apple defending Apple policies, I'd bet most of those examples demonstrate the benefit to consumers. (and has he defended the really egregious Apple missteps, like the security officer pretending to be a police officer?)

kapitalx 15y ago
Your comparison is invalid. Apple's bootloader locks are a better comparison (Not referring to SIM lock which is provider mandated). Or the fact that you can't change batteries on your devices? Seems to me the purpose behind that is for you to change your device when the battery can't hold a good enough charge instead of just changing the batteries! How does that benefit the consumer? HTC removes bootloader locks: http://www.pcworld.com/article/228823/htc_ends_locked_bootloader_policy.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/228823/htc_ends_locked_bootlo...
- eurleif 15y ago
  I believe Apple's stated reason for the battery thing is that the mechanism for making a battery removable takes up a lot of space, and by getting rid of it, they can make the actual battery bigger.
  - api 15y ago
    That is true, and you can replace the battery. Doing so voids your warranty, but by the time your Li-Polymer battery no longer holds a charge your laptop will be out of warranty anyway, even with AppleCare. All you need is a screwdriver. But Apple does support a lot of draconian IP policy. I think they're in need of a whipping over this.

iamandrus 15y ago

Apple has draconian restrictions on stuff like iOS for the user's sake (and for Apple's partially), and with the huge amount of users they obviously got that right. I'm not entirely sure what Apple's stance on SOPA is (I heard they supported it, but then I heard they didn't), but I don't think it would matter to them. They don't need to sue for piracy because they have the iTunes Store, which only distributes content. Apple even removed the DRM from their iTunes Store media a few years ago. They don't limit your freedom in the way that SOPA or PIPA will. You're comparing two completely different industries.

mikeash 15y ago
I could say that the MPAA's restrictions are also for the viewer's sake, and with the huge amount of viewers they obviously got that right. I don't believe it, but I don't see where it's wrong but the equivalent for Apple is right. Personally, I think Apple's policies are more destructive. They're doing a pretty decent job of convincing an entire generation that locked-down, manufacturer-controlled computing is good. Not that I'm boycotting them....
- api 15y ago
  I agree, and I'd kind of like to boycott Apple at this point. But the problem is that I need to get my work done, and Apple has a monopoly. On what? On decent UI design and hardware/software that "just works." Linux UIs are getting slightly better with Gnome 3 and Unity, but they still suck. (And they're getting better by copying Apple.) Windows UIs have been getting worse since XP. (All the good features in Windows 7 are copied from Apple, like their Expose equivalent.) Neither OS offers anything like the plug-and-go and design cleanliness that Apple offers. It really makes a difference in terms of productivity. I know how to futz around with my machine to make it work, but I have better things to do with my time. Until either a competitor or the open source community can offer good design -- which matters -- I am stuck with Apple. BTW, I'll give you all a hint on good design: minimal is a synonym for good. Exterminate features.
  - bad_user 15y ago

rmc 15y ago

Although there are a lot of people here that like Apple products and support their policies, there are also lots of people here who use Free Software/Open Source. Lots of us are already boycotting lots of companies that don't fit what our ethics are. I'm a hacker, Hacker News community member, and a FLOSS user/developer, and I oppose Apple's draconian policies.