6 ms·

A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to

A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to worry about. You don't need to make 6 figures, to be 6 feet tall, to have the body of The Rock or 2004 Brad Pitt's face. Having one interesting hobby is also a huge plus, even if it's as simple as hiking or jogging. You just need to be minimally interesting. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately for those among us who fit in the above, many men fail on one or more of these points. The trueoffmychest and TwoXChromosomes subreddits are full of horror stories about unkempt or disrespectful men.

988747 4y ago
The problem is, if a man hit all these points there's really no reason for him to form a relationship with a woman. Ideal state for a man is being single and having series of one night stands :) Relationships are for those who have trouble attracting women and once they succeed they want to keep their "prey" forever. /s
- baggachipz 4y ago
  > Ideal state for a man is being single and having series of one night stands Thanks for proving OP's point.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
>A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to worry about... one interesting hobby... Congratulations, you've just described 95% of men who are gainfully employed in fairly technical white collar sectors of the economy. You're getting down-voted because they are probably the single biggest demographic on HN and their experience doesn't match what your alleging it to be.
- medvezhenok 4y ago
  A lot of people are in denial of basic genetic factors and keep trying to intellectualize mating practices. I found that listening to the "Beat Your Genes" podcast the most helpful out of the resources available. Women (on average, obviously individuals are different) are attracted to status vastly more than anything else. All the other "requirements" are basically seen as proxies for status (job, income, character, etc). IT is still seen societally as medium to low status, so people in the industry are going to struggle. I think the best thing you as an individual can do is get a higher-status hobby (i.e. not video gaming, but something like acting or guitar, etc). I also find that America is completely in denial about the status game, where as other countries are more honest about it (i.e. people will actually tell you)
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >I also find that America is completely in denial about the status game, where as other countries are more honest about it (i.e. people will actually tell you) I've found that IT has much higher status in other countries than it does in America. American women want men who are lawyers (or politicians), doctors, or business executives, not engineers or IT people. In other countries, women don't all have an automatic stigma against IT, because they know it pays well.
goethes_kind 4y ago
Comments like these get tiring. Not only do young men have to suffer in silence but now they have to read stupid comments like this which are nothing more than gaslighting. The men in those horror stories that you mentions are not the ones having problem. They already have women in their lives.
moss2 4y ago
False. I do go out on weekends and approach women. Respectfully. While having basic hygiene and grooming and tasteful clothing. And I'm financially autonomous. And I work out regularly. And have a social circle. I'm perfectly average looking. All that gets me is friends. Loads of friends. Women who I share a conversation with and have a laugh with. Never any attraction or meeting up at a later date. Don't speak confidently about subjects you know nothing about.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mikrl 4y ago
  >All that gets me is friends Are you signalling that you’re looking for friends or partners? IME women don’t react well to crudeness or excessive directness but with a silver tongue you can flower up “hi I’d like to escalate” and as long as you are clear (by ‘clear’ I mean with an amount of sexy deniability) then that will act as a quick filter. Plus it takes cojones, which women also enjoy (IME YMMV IANAW)
  - hnfong 4y ago
    Pile on even more "requirements" (things to do to increase one's chances) and you're proving the GP's point.
epolanski 4y ago
> A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to worry about. The tasteful clothing can be even left out and I find your comment largely naive, but your point kind of stays true: if you're "normal" there's armies of women out there looking for relationships. A suprising amount of 30+ year olds I know would spend most of their free time gaming or conducting isolated and unappealing lives. And the biggest complain I hear from women is lack of maturity, masculinity and most of all mental health among men.
fbernier 4y ago
Exactly this. I've been single for four months at 27 and dated a lot during that time and I noticed that the bar is set _so low_ to place yourself as a better candidate than, let's say 80% of other men, that's it's simply scary. Most men have literally nothing interesting to offer for a relationship. When you look at their situation from an objective point of view it's so obvious why they remain single and yet most are unable to see it. They either have no hobbies, hobbies that are almost exclusively shared by other men and often show no interest in their potential partners' hobbies. A lot of them also spend most of their time in online communities that are almost completely absent from women. They end up having discussion subjects and interests so far away from their dating partners that it turns into an awkward date.
- bitcoinmoney 4y ago
  Why do men need hobbies and girls only need to watch TV shows or social media?
- goethes_kind 4y ago
  Most men who have problems in this area are not going on dates. They are not even meeting women. I do not think it has much to do with hobbies.
  - fbernier 4y ago
    It's still an issue. When online dating, one of the main thing you get from a person's profile is "what are their interests?". Even if it's not explicitly written down, people try to infer based on the pictures. Oh, a picture him riding an ATV with the boys. Ah, here's one of him fishing with the boys. There he is, happily posing with a normally dangerous but sedated wild animal. Hmm. You get the idea.
    - unpopularopp 4y ago
      >Oh, a picture him riding an ATV with the boys. Ah, here's one of him fishing with the boys. There he is, happily posing with a normally dangerous but sedated wild animal. Hmm. >You get the idea. I don't get the idea. Half the comments here are about men lacking healthy masculinity. Now you just described someone who loves going out in the nature. Fishing and hunting are fun hobbies and it's not for men only (literally my local angling club is like ~40% women)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
acheron 4y ago
Not really true, as the actual studies show if you read beyond the headline. And dumb "life/advice" subreddits are all "creative writing" at best, and just straight trolling/karma farming more often. Nothing posted there is true. Taking reddit as evidence for anything is a terrible idea.
mcphage 4y ago
> The trueoffmychest and TwoXChromosomes subreddits are full of horror stories about unkempt or disrespectful men. They're full of horror stories of unkempt or disrespectful men who are nevertheless in a relationship—so maybe it's not even as hard as all that ;-)

988747 4y ago

The problem is, if a man hit all these points there's really no reason for him to form a relationship with a woman. Ideal state for a man is being single and having series of one night stands :) Relationships are for those who have trouble attracting women and once they succeed they want to keep their "prey" forever. /s

baggachipz 4y ago
> Ideal state for a man is being single and having series of one night stands Thanks for proving OP's point.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

dsfyu404ed 4y ago

>A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to worry about... one interesting hobby... Congratulations, you've just described 95% of men who are gainfully employed in fairly technical white collar sectors of the economy. You're getting down-voted because they are probably the single biggest demographic on HN and their experience doesn't match what your alleging it to be.

medvezhenok 4y ago
A lot of people are in denial of basic genetic factors and keep trying to intellectualize mating practices. I found that listening to the "Beat Your Genes" podcast the most helpful out of the resources available. Women (on average, obviously individuals are different) are attracted to status vastly more than anything else. All the other "requirements" are basically seen as proxies for status (job, income, character, etc). IT is still seen societally as medium to low status, so people in the industry are going to struggle. I think the best thing you as an individual can do is get a higher-status hobby (i.e. not video gaming, but something like acting or guitar, etc). I also find that America is completely in denial about the status game, where as other countries are more honest about it (i.e. people will actually tell you)
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >I also find that America is completely in denial about the status game, where as other countries are more honest about it (i.e. people will actually tell you) I've found that IT has much higher status in other countries than it does in America. American women want men who are lawyers (or politicians), doctors, or business executives, not engineers or IT people. In other countries, women don't all have an automatic stigma against IT, because they know it pays well.

goethes_kind 4y ago

Comments like these get tiring. Not only do young men have to suffer in silence but now they have to read stupid comments like this which are nothing more than gaslighting. The men in those horror stories that you mentions are not the ones having problem. They already have women in their lives.

moss2 4y ago

False. I do go out on weekends and approach women. Respectfully. While having basic hygiene and grooming and tasteful clothing. And I'm financially autonomous. And I work out regularly. And have a social circle. I'm perfectly average looking. All that gets me is friends. Loads of friends. Women who I share a conversation with and have a laugh with. Never any attraction or meeting up at a later date. Don't speak confidently about subjects you know nothing about.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mikrl 4y ago
>All that gets me is friends Are you signalling that you’re looking for friends or partners? IME women don’t react well to crudeness or excessive directness but with a silver tongue you can flower up “hi I’d like to escalate” and as long as you are clear (by ‘clear’ I mean with an amount of sexy deniability) then that will act as a quick filter. Plus it takes cojones, which women also enjoy (IME YMMV IANAW)
- hnfong 4y ago
  Pile on even more "requirements" (things to do to increase one's chances) and you're proving the GP's point.

epolanski 4y ago

> A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to worry about. The tasteful clothing can be even left out and I find your comment largely naive, but your point kind of stays true: if you're "normal" there's armies of women out there looking for relationships. A suprising amount of 30+ year olds I know would spend most of their free time gaming or conducting isolated and unappealing lives. And the biggest complain I hear from women is lack of maturity, masculinity and most of all mental health among men.

fbernier 4y ago

Exactly this. I've been single for four months at 27 and dated a lot during that time and I noticed that the bar is set _so low_ to place yourself as a better candidate than, let's say 80% of other men, that's it's simply scary. Most men have literally nothing interesting to offer for a relationship. When you look at their situation from an objective point of view it's so obvious why they remain single and yet most are unable to see it. They either have no hobbies, hobbies that are almost exclusively shared by other men and often show no interest in their potential partners' hobbies. A lot of them also spend most of their time in online communities that are almost completely absent from women. They end up having discussion subjects and interests so far away from their dating partners that it turns into an awkward date.

bitcoinmoney 4y ago
Why do men need hobbies and girls only need to watch TV shows or social media?
goethes_kind 4y ago
Most men who have problems in this area are not going on dates. They are not even meeting women. I do not think it has much to do with hobbies.
- fbernier 4y ago
  It's still an issue. When online dating, one of the main thing you get from a person's profile is "what are their interests?". Even if it's not explicitly written down, people try to infer based on the pictures. Oh, a picture him riding an ATV with the boys. Ah, here's one of him fishing with the boys. There he is, happily posing with a normally dangerous but sedated wild animal. Hmm. You get the idea.
  - unpopularopp 4y ago
    >Oh, a picture him riding an ATV with the boys. Ah, here's one of him fishing with the boys. There he is, happily posing with a normally dangerous but sedated wild animal. Hmm. >You get the idea. I don't get the idea. Half the comments here are about men lacking healthy masculinity. Now you just described someone who loves going out in the nature. Fishing and hunting are fun hobbies and it's not for men only (literally my local angling club is like ~40% women)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

acheron 4y ago

Not really true, as the actual studies show if you read beyond the headline. And dumb "life/advice" subreddits are all "creative writing" at best, and just straight trolling/karma farming more often. Nothing posted there is true. Taking reddit as evidence for anything is a terrible idea.

mcphage 4y ago

> The trueoffmychest and TwoXChromosomes subreddits are full of horror stories about unkempt or disrespectful men. They're full of horror stories of unkempt or disrespectful men who are nevertheless in a relationship—so maybe it's not even as hard as all that ;-)