7 ms·

Actually laughed out loud at this bit: > In the early morning of May 27, Powers set out to hike what he believed was the 17-mile Cabin Loop, which his guideboo

Actually laughed out loud at this bit: > In the early morning of May 27, Powers set out to hike what he believed was the 17-mile Cabin Loop, which his guidebook described as an easy-to-moderate trail. [...] > In her verdict, United States Magistrate Judge Camille D. Bibles disagreed [...] He wasn’t, she said, even on the right trail: Instead of the 17-mile, moderate Cabin Loop, he was hiking the 18.8-mile Taylor Cabin Loop, a full 50 miles away, which his guidebook rated as strenuous.

Nullabillity 4y ago
Sounds like whoever named the trails ought to be the ones actually held responsible then?
- thedanbob 4y ago
  I’d say when there’s more than an hour’s drive between them it’s reasonable to expect people to tell them apart, even with similar names.
  - wodenokoto 4y ago
    When they’re both more than an hour away from you, heading out to the wrong one is in no way any more suspicious than heading out to the right one.
    - thedanbob 4y ago
      Sure, I’m not saying it was impossible to mix them up, just that naming them like that isn’t criminal negligence. There are lots of places that are close together and have similar names.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - mannykannot 4y ago
      The trailheads are an hour from each other. Even if they started at the same place, it would be the hiker's responsibility to verify where he is and that he was on the intended trail, not just at the start, but as he progressed along it. If what you are seeing around you does not match up with what your map shows, go back to the last place you were certain. If this guy's life was in danger - and, having been to Taylor's cabin myself, I can well believe it was, especially given how clueless he was - then he has bought the rest of his life for $300K, by abusing an infrastructure set up with considerable effort by people who are doing their best - and taking a risk - to act responsibly. He should be grateful for that and quit whining.
  - causi 4y ago
    If you told your phone "hey google, take me to cabin trail" and ended up at a hiking trail, would you suspect it was the wrong place?
    - berkes 4y ago
      If you "plan" an entire trip in wildlife with a single "hey google..." I'd say that you are personally very irresponsible and should or could be charged for any rescue operation.
    - SSLy 4y ago
      I would never trust an AI designed in the pleasant SV to guide me in wilderness, no.
    - stevehawk 4y ago
      why would I expect my phone to get that right on the first try and not verify it? how lazy have tech people gotten that they blindly trust terrible tech?
    - seattle_spring 4y ago
      I would sure as shit double check. Google Maps is awful at locating any trail except the most well-trodden. You'd be a complete fool not to double check, as the person in OP demonstrated.
    - mannykannot 4y ago
      That would be just a step short of driving onto the railroad tracks because your phone told you to turn right. And when I am going hiking on a route I had not been on before, I take a map of the trail and use it, especially at a time of the year when one should expect temperatures exceeding 35°C. If he had made his way to his intended hiking location, it is quite possible he would still have become lost, as the trail system there has many branches.
  - cykros 4y ago
    Indeed -- much like with roads that have the same name with a different ending; ie, Maple St. and Maple Ave., found in the same town. Though I do feel bad for the people who live on such streets, with how often their food delivery gets sent to the wrong place. Turns out delivery drivers aren't always the ones with the greatest attention to detail.
    - zimpenfish 4y ago
      Next to Greenwich Park, there's Vanbrugh Park, Vanbrugh Park Road, Vanbrugh Park Road West, Vanbrugh Fields, and Vanbrugh Hill all in ~100m radius. Also Vanbrugh Castle as a house name within the same radius but, obviously, isn't on any of the aforementioned roads.
    - cdjk 4y ago
      The one that gets me every time is Parkmoore and Moorepark on opposite sides of 280 in San Jose. I be someone thought they were being clever when they named them.
      - anotheruser13 4y ago
        In Chicago, Wacker Drive has an Upper and Lower, goes North, South, East, and West, and crosses itself 6 times. Confusing for people who aren't familiar with it!
    - cyberge99 4y ago
      Try asking for Peachtree Road in Atlanta major. There are no fewer than 20 variants of Peachtree (Road, lane, drive, Corners, etc).
      - mauvehaus 4y ago
        Boston has at least two Glen Roads, differentiated only by neighborhood and ZIP code. I found this out when a friend drove up to visit, called, and asked: "Do you live in some kind of gated community?!" "No." "I didn't think so."
- ben_w 4y ago
  You think that's bad, 20 years ago I was on a train from London (I forget which station) to Liverpool Lime St station, and somewhere around Nottingham — over an hour into the trip — another passenger asked me if we were going to get to Liverpool Street Station soon. Liverpool Street Station is in London. Liverpool Lime Street is in Liverpool.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    People who land at Newark airport in New Jersey and want to use the trains to get to New York City have to figure out the difference between Newark Penn Station and New York Penn station. Must be awful for people who do not use English as their primary language. At the Secaucus station, the two Penn Stations are in opposite directions, and I am sure many end up going the wrong way and wasting an hour.
    - geoduck14 4y ago
      It is also aweful who speak English as their primary language. Source: me, wondering if I want the Bronx bound train or the Queens bound train
      - systems_glitch 4y ago
        But you can ride all day on that token as long as you don't leave the station :P
    - systems_glitch 4y ago
      The platform changes at Secaucus junction can be hectic even if you do know there's more than one Penn Station! There's a Penn Station in Baltimore too. Making that mistake nowadays is less of a personal safety issue than it used to be, at least.
    - kmill 4y ago
      My wife once purchased a ticket over the phone for the Acela line from the Penn Station in New York, but they misheard it as the one in Newark. So it's even hard for Amtrak! Something we learned out of all this was that each train company used to have their own station in each city, before things became consolidated, so it makes sense for there to be many stations for the Pennsylvania Railroad.
- berkes 4y ago
  This response is what many non-Americans (at least my european bubble) pityingly look down at. "I heard in America they have to put a warning on the microwave ovens to not put any live animals inside" followed by some hearsay about people microwaving their dog "to dry them" and then winning millions in court. In any case, this reasoning shows a worrying lack of personal responsibility. Often ascribed to US. Do people seriously consider legal steps against a trail-book because names of trails are confusing? More general: do people actually win a court case because a route-app brought them somewhere "dangerous"?
  - largepeepee 4y ago
    >In any case, this reasoning shows a worrying lack of personal responsibility. Often ascribed to US. Oh the American people are probably more independent than most and that comes with understanding personal responsibility. The real issue is the lack of soft unwritten societal rules that exists in most other countries, so everything must be codified into law and if the rules are not specific enough, they are abused by everyone from corporations to everyday peeps who grew up under the opaque system. Ironically when the laws are too specific, there are also loopholes to be abused. At the end of the day, laws aren't the solution to every societal issue.
    - hprotagonist 4y ago
      > The real issue is the lack of soft unwritten societal rules that exists in most other countries, close, but i think it's the other way around. Those soft rules do exist, but they're regionally scoped to about the size of the median european country. We just have several dozen such regions. The "codify everything" impulse can arise from things like interstate/inter-region commerce alone.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    I would hope they don't win if the information is correct and the names are just confusing. The map doesn't set the names, just renders a representation of what legally exists. There have been cases of GPS directions being wrong and people suing. I think some of the Cades have been successful depending on the circumstances. Wasn't there one in Australia that took someone down a wrong deserted road or something?
- canadianfella 4y ago
  [dead]
- seattle_spring 4y ago
  You can't possibly be serious?
- aspyct 4y ago
  I mean, it's 50 miles away though. Surely he should've figured out that the trail on the map didn't match the reality. Oh wait, he didn't bring a map.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    That was my first thought.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  Or how about whoever taught this hiker to read?
- johnea 4y ago
  Personally, I think he should go to jail. One of the worst wildfires in San Diego county history occured for this same reason. Decades later the landscape is still a blackened scar. Instead of fire starting equipment, maybe he should have brought a GPS? Extra batteries? Solar charger? This is crimnal neglegence, nothing less. This thread is also a poster child for the ineffective HN comments feature. After some moron burns up the countryside, all the discussion here is about how different places have similar names? Pathetic...
  - Nullabillity 4y ago
    You can focus on punishing people, or you can look at why the mixup happened in the first place.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      the "mixup" happened because someone was an idiot and then started a fire. If I get drunk, drive, and cause property damage, would you feel the same way? People have a responsibility to not drive drunk and not to start forest fires. We can do a 5 whys activity but that doesn't negate the culpability of the individual.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    What's the point of sending him to jail and make a ward of the state? Is he an idiot? Sure. Do forests burn? Yeah. Just ban him from public lands and fine him. Fire is a natural part of the landscape in the west. You should learn to appreciate it because our policy of putting out fires for aesthetic and logging reasons has made our whole landscape a powder keg.
brudgers 4y ago
I suspect that he typed "Cabin Loop" into a little box and went where the internet sent him. Because that's how cosine similarity works.
- beerandt 4y ago
  For trails, this is the equivalent of typing in "Main Street" and presuming the first result is unique and/or the result you're looking for, without considering city, county, or even state. I can't begin to estimate how many trail names might include the words "cabin" and/or "loop". Just further indicates the level of incompetence and ill-preparedness here.
  - brudgers 4y ago
    Interesting the degree to which shit search results are excused.
johnea 4y ago
Personally, I think he should go to jail. One of the worst wildfires in San Diego county history occured for this same reason. Decades later the landscape is still a blackened scar. Instead of fire starting equipment, maybe he should have brought a GPS? Extra batteries? Solar charger? This is crimnal neglegence, nothing less. This thread is also a poster child for the ineffective HN comments feature. After some moron burns up the countryside, all the discussion here is about how different places have similar names? Pathetic...

Nullabillity 4y ago

Sounds like whoever named the trails ought to be the ones actually held responsible then?

thedanbob 4y ago
I’d say when there’s more than an hour’s drive between them it’s reasonable to expect people to tell them apart, even with similar names.
- wodenokoto 4y ago
  When they’re both more than an hour away from you, heading out to the wrong one is in no way any more suspicious than heading out to the right one.
  - thedanbob 4y ago
    Sure, I’m not saying it was impossible to mix them up, just that naming them like that isn’t criminal negligence. There are lots of places that are close together and have similar names.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - mannykannot 4y ago
    The trailheads are an hour from each other. Even if they started at the same place, it would be the hiker's responsibility to verify where he is and that he was on the intended trail, not just at the start, but as he progressed along it. If what you are seeing around you does not match up with what your map shows, go back to the last place you were certain. If this guy's life was in danger - and, having been to Taylor's cabin myself, I can well believe it was, especially given how clueless he was - then he has bought the rest of his life for $300K, by abusing an infrastructure set up with considerable effort by people who are doing their best - and taking a risk - to act responsibly. He should be grateful for that and quit whining.
- causi 4y ago
  If you told your phone "hey google, take me to cabin trail" and ended up at a hiking trail, would you suspect it was the wrong place?
  - berkes 4y ago
    If you "plan" an entire trip in wildlife with a single "hey google..." I'd say that you are personally very irresponsible and should or could be charged for any rescue operation.
  - SSLy 4y ago
    I would never trust an AI designed in the pleasant SV to guide me in wilderness, no.
  - stevehawk 4y ago
    why would I expect my phone to get that right on the first try and not verify it? how lazy have tech people gotten that they blindly trust terrible tech?
  - seattle_spring 4y ago
    I would sure as shit double check. Google Maps is awful at locating any trail except the most well-trodden. You'd be a complete fool not to double check, as the person in OP demonstrated.
  - mannykannot 4y ago
    That would be just a step short of driving onto the railroad tracks because your phone told you to turn right. And when I am going hiking on a route I had not been on before, I take a map of the trail and use it, especially at a time of the year when one should expect temperatures exceeding 35°C. If he had made his way to his intended hiking location, it is quite possible he would still have become lost, as the trail system there has many branches.
- cykros 4y ago
  Indeed -- much like with roads that have the same name with a different ending; ie, Maple St. and Maple Ave., found in the same town. Though I do feel bad for the people who live on such streets, with how often their food delivery gets sent to the wrong place. Turns out delivery drivers aren't always the ones with the greatest attention to detail.
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    Next to Greenwich Park, there's Vanbrugh Park, Vanbrugh Park Road, Vanbrugh Park Road West, Vanbrugh Fields, and Vanbrugh Hill all in ~100m radius. Also Vanbrugh Castle as a house name within the same radius but, obviously, isn't on any of the aforementioned roads.
  - cdjk 4y ago
    The one that gets me every time is Parkmoore and Moorepark on opposite sides of 280 in San Jose. I be someone thought they were being clever when they named them.
    - anotheruser13 4y ago
      In Chicago, Wacker Drive has an Upper and Lower, goes North, South, East, and West, and crosses itself 6 times. Confusing for people who aren't familiar with it!
  - cyberge99 4y ago
    Try asking for Peachtree Road in Atlanta major. There are no fewer than 20 variants of Peachtree (Road, lane, drive, Corners, etc).
    - mauvehaus 4y ago
      Boston has at least two Glen Roads, differentiated only by neighborhood and ZIP code. I found this out when a friend drove up to visit, called, and asked: "Do you live in some kind of gated community?!" "No." "I didn't think so."
ben_w 4y ago
You think that's bad, 20 years ago I was on a train from London (I forget which station) to Liverpool Lime St station, and somewhere around Nottingham — over an hour into the trip — another passenger asked me if we were going to get to Liverpool Street Station soon. Liverpool Street Station is in London. Liverpool Lime Street is in Liverpool.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  People who land at Newark airport in New Jersey and want to use the trains to get to New York City have to figure out the difference between Newark Penn Station and New York Penn station. Must be awful for people who do not use English as their primary language. At the Secaucus station, the two Penn Stations are in opposite directions, and I am sure many end up going the wrong way and wasting an hour.
  - geoduck14 4y ago
    It is also aweful who speak English as their primary language. Source: me, wondering if I want the Bronx bound train or the Queens bound train
    - systems_glitch 4y ago
      But you can ride all day on that token as long as you don't leave the station :P
  - systems_glitch 4y ago
    The platform changes at Secaucus junction can be hectic even if you do know there's more than one Penn Station! There's a Penn Station in Baltimore too. Making that mistake nowadays is less of a personal safety issue than it used to be, at least.
  - kmill 4y ago
    My wife once purchased a ticket over the phone for the Acela line from the Penn Station in New York, but they misheard it as the one in Newark. So it's even hard for Amtrak! Something we learned out of all this was that each train company used to have their own station in each city, before things became consolidated, so it makes sense for there to be many stations for the Pennsylvania Railroad.
berkes 4y ago
This response is what many non-Americans (at least my european bubble) pityingly look down at. "I heard in America they have to put a warning on the microwave ovens to not put any live animals inside" followed by some hearsay about people microwaving their dog "to dry them" and then winning millions in court. In any case, this reasoning shows a worrying lack of personal responsibility. Often ascribed to US. Do people seriously consider legal steps against a trail-book because names of trails are confusing? More general: do people actually win a court case because a route-app brought them somewhere "dangerous"?
- largepeepee 4y ago
  >In any case, this reasoning shows a worrying lack of personal responsibility. Often ascribed to US. Oh the American people are probably more independent than most and that comes with understanding personal responsibility. The real issue is the lack of soft unwritten societal rules that exists in most other countries, so everything must be codified into law and if the rules are not specific enough, they are abused by everyone from corporations to everyday peeps who grew up under the opaque system. Ironically when the laws are too specific, there are also loopholes to be abused. At the end of the day, laws aren't the solution to every societal issue.
  - hprotagonist 4y ago
    > The real issue is the lack of soft unwritten societal rules that exists in most other countries, close, but i think it's the other way around. Those soft rules do exist, but they're regionally scoped to about the size of the median european country. We just have several dozen such regions. The "codify everything" impulse can arise from things like interstate/inter-region commerce alone.
- giantg2 4y ago
  I would hope they don't win if the information is correct and the names are just confusing. The map doesn't set the names, just renders a representation of what legally exists. There have been cases of GPS directions being wrong and people suing. I think some of the Cades have been successful depending on the circumstances. Wasn't there one in Australia that took someone down a wrong deserted road or something?
canadianfella 4y ago
[dead]
seattle_spring 4y ago
You can't possibly be serious?
aspyct 4y ago
I mean, it's 50 miles away though. Surely he should've figured out that the trail on the map didn't match the reality. Oh wait, he didn't bring a map.
- giantg2 4y ago
  That was my first thought.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ElfinTrousers 4y ago
Or how about whoever taught this hiker to read?
johnea 4y ago
Personally, I think he should go to jail. One of the worst wildfires in San Diego county history occured for this same reason. Decades later the landscape is still a blackened scar. Instead of fire starting equipment, maybe he should have brought a GPS? Extra batteries? Solar charger? This is crimnal neglegence, nothing less. This thread is also a poster child for the ineffective HN comments feature. After some moron burns up the countryside, all the discussion here is about how different places have similar names? Pathetic...
- Nullabillity 4y ago
  You can focus on punishing people, or you can look at why the mixup happened in the first place.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    the "mixup" happened because someone was an idiot and then started a fire. If I get drunk, drive, and cause property damage, would you feel the same way? People have a responsibility to not drive drunk and not to start forest fires. We can do a 5 whys activity but that doesn't negate the culpability of the individual.
- cmh89 4y ago
  What's the point of sending him to jail and make a ward of the state? Is he an idiot? Sure. Do forests burn? Yeah. Just ban him from public lands and fine him. Fire is a natural part of the landscape in the west. You should learn to appreciate it because our policy of putting out fires for aesthetic and logging reasons has made our whole landscape a powder keg.

brudgers 4y ago

I suspect that he typed "Cabin Loop" into a little box and went where the internet sent him. Because that's how cosine similarity works.

beerandt 4y ago
For trails, this is the equivalent of typing in "Main Street" and presuming the first result is unique and/or the result you're looking for, without considering city, county, or even state. I can't begin to estimate how many trail names might include the words "cabin" and/or "loop". Just further indicates the level of incompetence and ill-preparedness here.
- brudgers 4y ago
  Interesting the degree to which shit search results are excused.

johnea 4y ago

Personally, I think he should go to jail. One of the worst wildfires in San Diego county history occured for this same reason. Decades later the landscape is still a blackened scar. Instead of fire starting equipment, maybe he should have brought a GPS? Extra batteries? Solar charger? This is crimnal neglegence, nothing less. This thread is also a poster child for the ineffective HN comments feature. After some moron burns up the countryside, all the discussion here is about how different places have similar names? Pathetic...