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Checkout "INFINITE ODYSSEY MAGAZINE" which is only AI-generated art. I'll use the term "art" here because there must be some human skill involved. Personally I'

by n0us 4y ago

Checkout "INFINITE ODYSSEY MAGAZINE" which is only AI-generated art. I'll use the term "art" here because there must be some human skill involved. Personally I'm not able to get results as good as theirs when I use these tools. There are some really cool image series they've put out. https://www.infiniteodyssey.net/ https://www.infiniteodyssey.net/

krapp 4y ago
> I'll use the term "art" here because there must be some human skill involved. I mean, there's human skill in creating the prompts but AI alone is capable of this level of quality. You can follow any AI art tag on Instagram and see for yourself.
- eikenberry 4y ago
  The skill is in designing, building and training up the AI. The prompter is providing such a tiny amount of input that it is hard to say they did much anything at all in comparison.
  - jointpdf 4y ago
    The skill is in creating the training data in the first place. Training a model is hardly a skill. It’s more like playing Tamagotchi—check on it once in a while to make sure it hasn’t died, and guess at ways to make it happier in the future.
    - p1esk 4y ago
      I agree with your first statement, and disagree with the second one. Training a new, non-trivial model is 1/3 craft, 1/3 science, and 1/3 art. There are not very many people in the world capable of training GPT-4 level models or beating state of the art in image generation.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Like a lot of people in high-level positions in organizations, whom we often credit with "creation" of various things. Often they receive far more credit than the ones who did the actual work. Famous painters who just sketch in the piece and let nameless assistants "draw the rest of the fucking owl", producers who don't do much but get to claim a lot of credit, musical "artists" who don't write their music or play any of the instruments on their albums (that'd be work for some nameless musicians or, these days, maybe just a studio engineer with some electronics), choose their own clothes for public appearances ("they're just so creative, don't you think? What provocative choices!") or really do much more than provide some raw material to an autotune system for the vocals it will produce, and learn dance moves that someone else came up with. Uncredited script-fixers. The ghost-written "autobiography". The shared-pen-name or author-as-a-brand (but ghost writers do all the first drafts). The authentic and personal self-promoting blog where all the post-writing is actually outsourced. Politicians who call each other traitors on the radio then go golf together that same afternoon, and don't even bother to bring it up. It's all fake as hell already. Kayfabe. Pro Wrestling is as real as most of it (so, not at all) Now everyone can be the do-nothing "idea guy" producer and take all the credit. Democratization of artistic parasitism. The meatless alternative to exploiting actual humans. Truly, the brink of a revolution.
    - mr_toad 4y ago
      > Like a lot of people in high-level positions in organizations, whom we often credit with "creation" of various things. Often they receive far more credit than the ones who did the actual work. Dialectics that attempt to assign credit (or blame) consistently fail to understand two things. One is that contributions are not linearly separable. You can’t seperate the contributions of a hammer and a carpenter. Both are needed for anything to happen. The second is that compensation is based on marginal productivity, not total productivity. It is often the case that something with a low total contribution can have a high marginal contribution and command a higher reward, or vice versa. Usually this is related to scarcity. I wouldn’t be surprised to see good prompt engineering to become a relatively scarce and expensive resource, while the LLM that does most of the work gets nothing because it is effectively an infinite resource.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  no human can play drums like this drum machine! </s>
  - krapp 4y ago
    You say that as if professional music doesn't use drum loops all the time.
bawolff 4y ago
I feel like we're in the early days of photography. How can there be skill when the camera mechanically captures the scene perfectly?
- rcme 4y ago
  Not to discount the photographer's eye, but painting a scene does take a lot more skill than taking a photograph. And photography is largely dying thanks to the smartphone. I like your point that we're entering a new age we don't quite understand yet, but some things will probably be lost as well.
  - galleywest200 4y ago
    > And photography is largely dying thanks to the smartphone. I am not so sure about this statement. I would argue that photography has possibly been more prolific than it has been in the past. If you mean "manual photography where the user manipulates shutter speed, ISO, and aperture" then I still am unsure about this as Instagram is a huge boon to that industry as well.
    - rcme 4y ago
      I mean photography as an artistic medium.
      - thot_experiment 4y ago
        What? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills over here, how is photography DYING because of the smartphone? It would not surprise me if there's more fantastic photography being created in 2023 than in any previous year, and I say this as someone who will let go of my fully manual 50 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
        rcme 4y ago
        I think it's a pretty basic law of supply and demand: increase supply and value goes down. Sure, there's lots of "good" (mostly AI assisted) photography, and its value is mostly worthless. Take Instagram for instance. If you use it, do you even remember a photograph you've seen in the last month? Things are so ephemeral now. Most things are not worth remembering.
themodelplumber 4y ago
Ah man, the fingers on that blue-eyed knight. I love this hands issue with AI art. Is there a story about that?

by n0us 4y ago

krapp 4y ago

> I'll use the term "art" here because there must be some human skill involved. I mean, there's human skill in creating the prompts but AI alone is capable of this level of quality. You can follow any AI art tag on Instagram and see for yourself.

eikenberry 4y ago
The skill is in designing, building and training up the AI. The prompter is providing such a tiny amount of input that it is hard to say they did much anything at all in comparison.
- jointpdf 4y ago
  The skill is in creating the training data in the first place. Training a model is hardly a skill. It’s more like playing Tamagotchi—check on it once in a while to make sure it hasn’t died, and guess at ways to make it happier in the future.
  - p1esk 4y ago
    I agree with your first statement, and disagree with the second one. Training a new, non-trivial model is 1/3 craft, 1/3 science, and 1/3 art. There are not very many people in the world capable of training GPT-4 level models or beating state of the art in image generation.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Like a lot of people in high-level positions in organizations, whom we often credit with "creation" of various things. Often they receive far more credit than the ones who did the actual work. Famous painters who just sketch in the piece and let nameless assistants "draw the rest of the fucking owl", producers who don't do much but get to claim a lot of credit, musical "artists" who don't write their music or play any of the instruments on their albums (that'd be work for some nameless musicians or, these days, maybe just a studio engineer with some electronics), choose their own clothes for public appearances ("they're just so creative, don't you think? What provocative choices!") or really do much more than provide some raw material to an autotune system for the vocals it will produce, and learn dance moves that someone else came up with. Uncredited script-fixers. The ghost-written "autobiography". The shared-pen-name or author-as-a-brand (but ghost writers do all the first drafts). The authentic and personal self-promoting blog where all the post-writing is actually outsourced. Politicians who call each other traitors on the radio then go golf together that same afternoon, and don't even bother to bring it up. It's all fake as hell already. Kayfabe. Pro Wrestling is as real as most of it (so, not at all) Now everyone can be the do-nothing "idea guy" producer and take all the credit. Democratization of artistic parasitism. The meatless alternative to exploiting actual humans. Truly, the brink of a revolution.
  - mr_toad 4y ago
    > Like a lot of people in high-level positions in organizations, whom we often credit with "creation" of various things. Often they receive far more credit than the ones who did the actual work. Dialectics that attempt to assign credit (or blame) consistently fail to understand two things. One is that contributions are not linearly separable. You can’t seperate the contributions of a hammer and a carpenter. Both are needed for anything to happen. The second is that compensation is based on marginal productivity, not total productivity. It is often the case that something with a low total contribution can have a high marginal contribution and command a higher reward, or vice versa. Usually this is related to scarcity. I wouldn’t be surprised to see good prompt engineering to become a relatively scarce and expensive resource, while the LLM that does most of the work gets nothing because it is effectively an infinite resource.
mistrial9 4y ago
no human can play drums like this drum machine! </s>
- krapp 4y ago
  You say that as if professional music doesn't use drum loops all the time.

bawolff 4y ago

I feel like we're in the early days of photography. How can there be skill when the camera mechanically captures the scene perfectly?

rcme 4y ago
Not to discount the photographer's eye, but painting a scene does take a lot more skill than taking a photograph. And photography is largely dying thanks to the smartphone. I like your point that we're entering a new age we don't quite understand yet, but some things will probably be lost as well.
- galleywest200 4y ago
  > And photography is largely dying thanks to the smartphone. I am not so sure about this statement. I would argue that photography has possibly been more prolific than it has been in the past. If you mean "manual photography where the user manipulates shutter speed, ISO, and aperture" then I still am unsure about this as Instagram is a huge boon to that industry as well.
  - rcme 4y ago
    I mean photography as an artistic medium.
    - thot_experiment 4y ago
      What? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills over here, how is photography DYING because of the smartphone? It would not surprise me if there's more fantastic photography being created in 2023 than in any previous year, and I say this as someone who will let go of my fully manual 50 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
      - rcme 4y ago
        I think it's a pretty basic law of supply and demand: increase supply and value goes down. Sure, there's lots of "good" (mostly AI assisted) photography, and its value is mostly worthless. Take Instagram for instance. If you use it, do you even remember a photograph you've seen in the last month? Things are so ephemeral now. Most things are not worth remembering.

themodelplumber 4y ago

Ah man, the fingers on that blue-eyed knight. I love this hands issue with AI art. Is there a story about that?