3 ms·

It’s too bad the pitch data out there for Japanese is either proprietary or pirated without attribution Another resource: https://github.com/CaptainDario/DaKan

It’s too bad the pitch data out there for Japanese is either proprietary or pirated without attribution Another resource: https://github.com/CaptainDario/DaKanji-Single-Kanji-Recognition https://github.com/CaptainDario/DaKanji-Single-Kanji-Recogni... someone made an interesting kanji recognition lib that hasn’t gotten attention

krackers 4y ago
Given a large enough corpus of spoken lines, could you do some ML magic to get the pitch accents (maybe even just FFT and a simple classifier would do)? I'm aware that the "base" pitch accent does change in context so it's not quite trivial, but it seems like you could get pretty close? Edit: Found https://mizoru.github.io/blog/2021/12/25/Japanese-pitch.html https://mizoru.github.io/blog/2021/12/25/Japanese-pitch.html
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  The pitch variants are also highly regional but that’s an interesting idea. I wouldn’t want to give it to learners in use cases I can think of, when correct data is available though (just with licensing headaches/costs) The correct data already exists, so I'm not sure what the point is besides having a less accurate but freer option
  - aikinai 4y ago
    99% (or more) of the recordings you might find for training would be in the standard accent unless you were specifically digging for regional accents.
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      it's also changing generationally
- gfaure 4y ago
  This linked article seems to have gotten special access to the data -- unfortunately only the resulting model is available.
- rjh29 4y ago
  It predates modern ML, but that's what Suzuki-kun does: https://www.gavo.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ojad/ https://www.gavo.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ojad/
  - krackers 4y ago
    I don't think Suzuki-kun was trained on voice data, they trained a classifier on an annotated text corpus. And getting access to such a corpus is probably much harder than finding voice samples. https://research.ibm.com/publications/accent-sandhi-estimation-of-tokyo-dialect-of-japanese-using-conditional-random-fields https://research.ibm.com/publications/accent-sandhi-estimati...
rjh29 4y ago
It seems like most people use the NHK pitch accent dictionary (there are TSVs of it online). I don't feel like it's particularly "pirated" though, can you really pirate the way people actually pronounce words?
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  NHK didn’t give that data an open license Piracy is rampant. Whether lifting and reusing/redistributing copyrighted dictionaries or other stud materials, or pirating ebook/cdrom type content. That’s nice, but as a legit service provider it’s less accessible without just giving users their own ability to side load in materials
kouteiheika 4y ago
> It’s too bad the pitch data out there for Japanese is either proprietary or pirated without attribution I have serious doubts whether this kind of data is even copyrightable, as long as you're not redistributing it verbatim. A specific selection of words with pitch data (e.g. the NKH pitch dictionary) might be copyrightable as there was creative expression involved in picking which exact words to put into the dictionary and in what order. But the data itself? A 猫 is always going to have a HLL pitch accent (in the standard accent). That's a fact. And facts itself are not copyrightable. You can't copyright a phone book[1]. Quoting from the case: > "Notwithstanding a valid copyright, a subsequent compiler remains free to use the facts contained in another's publication to aid in preparing a competing work, so long as the competing work does not feature the same selection and arrangement" Sounds exactly like the pitch accent data dump that's been floating around which a lot of people use. (Not the verbatim NHK one; the other one.) They probably used the data from NHK's pitch dictionary to compile it along with a few other dictionaries. But does it feature the same selection and arrangement? Nope. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications%2C_Inc.%2C_v._Rural_Telephone_Service_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications%2C_Inc.%2C_....
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  I see apps pay to license data from https://www.cjk.org https://www.cjk.org for pitch accent data. I don't know what their data looks like though. Maybe you're right and their business case for this data is essentially a scam, or there is non-factual copyrightable data, or the law is different in Japan, I don't know.

krackers 4y ago

Given a large enough corpus of spoken lines, could you do some ML magic to get the pitch accents (maybe even just FFT and a simple classifier would do)? I'm aware that the "base" pitch accent does change in context so it's not quite trivial, but it seems like you could get pretty close? Edit: Found https://mizoru.github.io/blog/2021/12/25/Japanese-pitch.html https://mizoru.github.io/blog/2021/12/25/Japanese-pitch.html

wahnfrieden 4y ago
The pitch variants are also highly regional but that’s an interesting idea. I wouldn’t want to give it to learners in use cases I can think of, when correct data is available though (just with licensing headaches/costs) The correct data already exists, so I'm not sure what the point is besides having a less accurate but freer option
- aikinai 4y ago
  99% (or more) of the recordings you might find for training would be in the standard accent unless you were specifically digging for regional accents.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    it's also changing generationally
gfaure 4y ago
This linked article seems to have gotten special access to the data -- unfortunately only the resulting model is available.
rjh29 4y ago
It predates modern ML, but that's what Suzuki-kun does: https://www.gavo.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ojad/ https://www.gavo.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ojad/
- krackers 4y ago
  I don't think Suzuki-kun was trained on voice data, they trained a classifier on an annotated text corpus. And getting access to such a corpus is probably much harder than finding voice samples. https://research.ibm.com/publications/accent-sandhi-estimation-of-tokyo-dialect-of-japanese-using-conditional-random-fields https://research.ibm.com/publications/accent-sandhi-estimati...

rjh29 4y ago

It seems like most people use the NHK pitch accent dictionary (there are TSVs of it online). I don't feel like it's particularly "pirated" though, can you really pirate the way people actually pronounce words?

wahnfrieden 4y ago
NHK didn’t give that data an open license Piracy is rampant. Whether lifting and reusing/redistributing copyrighted dictionaries or other stud materials, or pirating ebook/cdrom type content. That’s nice, but as a legit service provider it’s less accessible without just giving users their own ability to side load in materials

kouteiheika 4y ago

> It’s too bad the pitch data out there for Japanese is either proprietary or pirated without attribution I have serious doubts whether this kind of data is even copyrightable, as long as you're not redistributing it verbatim. A specific selection of words with pitch data (e.g. the NKH pitch dictionary) might be copyrightable as there was creative expression involved in picking which exact words to put into the dictionary and in what order. But the data itself? A 猫 is always going to have a HLL pitch accent (in the standard accent). That's a fact. And facts itself are not copyrightable. You can't copyright a phone book[1]. Quoting from the case: > "Notwithstanding a valid copyright, a subsequent compiler remains free to use the facts contained in another's publication to aid in preparing a competing work, so long as the competing work does not feature the same selection and arrangement" Sounds exactly like the pitch accent data dump that's been floating around which a lot of people use. (Not the verbatim NHK one; the other one.) They probably used the data from NHK's pitch dictionary to compile it along with a few other dictionaries. But does it feature the same selection and arrangement? Nope. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications%2C_Inc.%2C_v._Rural_Telephone_Service_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications%2C_Inc.%2C_....

wahnfrieden 4y ago
I see apps pay to license data from https://www.cjk.org https://www.cjk.org for pitch accent data. I don't know what their data looks like though. Maybe you're right and their business case for this data is essentially a scam, or there is non-factual copyrightable data, or the law is different in Japan, I don't know.