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> Aren't solar panels already more efficient at creating energy than photosynthesis? Solar panels convert light to electricity. Photosynthesis uses light to re
by csours 4y ago
> Aren't solar panels already more efficient at creating energy than photosynthesis?
Solar panels convert light to electricity. Photosynthesis uses light to rebuild molecules into sugars.
Plants are about 1-2% efficient - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency
Modern solar cells easily hit 20% efficiency under decent conditions.
> It's true we haven't found an artificial method of photosynthesis that creates a fuel we can burn that is more efficient than nature, but do we want to?
If we want to use airplanes to quickly travel long distances, yes. Or if we want to haul loads to many arbitrary locations.
- senttoschool 4y agoPhotosynthesis covers the vast majority of land and ocean available on Earth while solar panels cover far less. So in a way, photosynthesis is more efficient - in a scalable way.
- XorNot 4y agoYeah but that's a function of self-replication. If you could engineer a tuber or vine which did nothing but try to build up a huge H+ ion gradient between it's roots and it's tip, then we could just let that grow indefinitely and use it as a battery directly. Similarly most models of "grey goo" would functionally be this: machines autonomously covering the biosphere in more efficient light harvesters.
- andreareina 4y agoThat's not how you measure efficiency
- senttoschool 4y agoHow do you measure efficiency?
- dymk 4y agoPer unit area or volume or mass
- senttoschool 4y agoBut efficient scaling counts too right?
- DemocracyFTW2 4y agoIn the reductive view, yes. But at some point one must also consider the entire ecosystem. Plants are very efficient in keeping the entire system running; fossil fuels are quite efficient in making it less hospitable to humans. That consideration goes beyond just talking about energy input or output per volume or mass (although in the end it cannot and should not divorce itself from those considerations lest it turns into pseudo-science like the many, many inane techno-scams are prone to do).
- colechristensen 4y agoI would bet the the current yearly growth rate of energy harvesting is greater for solar panels than plants :) and plants have a billion year head start. (This is of course a silly argument)
- mixdup 4y agoSolar panels and photosynthesis drive different outputs, sure, but with the basically limitless electricity from the solar panels, we can then drive whatever output we want through applying the electricity to machinery or electrolysis
- adwn 4y agoElectricity from solar panels is not "limitless" in any meaningful sense of the word. Solar panels deliver a limited amount of power per area. They require a non-zero area of land and non-zero resources for construction and maintainance, so you can't build and install an arbitrary amount of them.
- walnutclosefarm 4y agoOf course solar power is not limitless. Finite insolation, and finite land mass = finite resource. But, you could generate the entirety of US energy usage from less than 100,000 square miles of solar panels, and quite possibly from less than 50,000 square miles, if you consider wind + solar. That's a lot of land, in one respect, but it's less than, e.g., the amount of land (circa 60,000 square miles) we currently use just to produce ethanol that accounts for less than 10% of just our energy use for small internal combustion engines. The challenge with solar/wind isn't limits on their production due to land, or even infrastructure, it's that they produce intermittently, and only produce electricity, and electricity is challenging to store for extended periods of time so you can match production to demand over time scales from hours to years.
- mixdup 4y agoIt's limitless in that it's not outside the bounds of physics or economics if we really wanted to replace 100% of our energy with solar, night time/inclement weather storage notwithstanding There's nothing but a lack of willpower preventing us from being on 100% solar and wind It's limitless in that in a closed system not connected to the grid, it's not automatically a bad thing if you waste it. Waste some solar power, nothing happens. Waste some coal or oil and you either have a slick on the ground or a ton of new CO2 in the air
- elif 4y agolet me know when you can clone solar panels or when solar panels each produce thousands of solar panel seeds.
- rtkwe 4y agoSolar fuels has a niche in that it allows us to make reduce the net CO2 released by carbon fuels. It would help blunt the level of changes needed to stave off worse climate disaster giving us more time to wean off of things like NG fired power plants and cars.