5 ms·

Widespread ethernet issues reported on new M2 Pro Mac mini

83 points by ed25519FUUU 4y ago

Maursault 4y ago
How many is "widespread?"
cehrlich 4y ago
According to many commenters in the linked thread, it's fixed in MacOS 13.2.1. Not great that it happened at all, but good to see that it was a software issue.
- segfaultbuserr 4y ago
  Is it a software issue, or a hardware issue that could be worked around in software... (sorry for the rant as an embedded system developer).
  - throwaway5959 4y ago
    To the end user, if it doesn't impair performance, does it matter?
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      To the end user, and doesn't impair performance, and covers all edge cases, then it doesn't matter if something is a workaround. But we're not being end users here, we're trying to look at what went wrong. And we don't know if the other two are true either.
      - mbreese 4y ago
        And, if it's something that's worked around in software (meaning, it was a hardware issue), that might have issues for things like Asahi Linux, which probably won't have that workaround in place.
    - makeitdouble 4y ago
      Arguably it would impact the support for other OSes, especially alternative ones who'd need to reverse engineer the workaround and/or write their own to get the network stack working. It could also fall apart the day Apple decides this machine is not supported anymore, and their next OS won't have the correct drivers anymore. It's their prerogative, but will sure suck for the machine owners.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - loeg 4y ago
    The latter is very common in the desktop/server space, too. If you ever write or work on drivers, you know.
    - segfaultbuserr 4y ago
      > If you ever write or work on drivers, you know. Especially when the hardware vendor doesn't provide public documentation on the correct workaround.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- ed25519FUUU 4y ago
  I have MacOS 13.2.1 and it's definitely not completely fixed -- but better. I did a ping test against my home router and I still get about 10% packet loss. Much better than the 40% when I first plugged it in.
  - icedchai 4y ago
    Can you try a speed test? That level of packet loss will make TCP connections perform incredibly poorly.
    - ProAm 4y ago
      10% loss inside your home network is bonkers bad.
      - icedchai 4y ago
        Absolutely. I had ~2% loss on an old cable modem and it would drop my upload speeds to single digit megabits.
  - singularity2001 4y ago
    Uff yeah it's still horrible! PING fritz.box (192.168.1.1): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=11.845 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=24.287 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=3.120 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=2.630 ms Request timeout for icmp_seq 4 Request timeout for icmp_seq 5 Request timeout for icmp_seq 6 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=0.801 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=1.139 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=0.772 ms Request timeout for icmp_seq 10 Request timeout for icmp_seq 11 Request timeout for icmp_seq 12 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=13 ttl=64 time=0.784 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=14 ttl=64 time=0.674 ms The above suggestion fixes it, hopefully permanently: settings->network-><ethernet interface>->details->hardware "change anything, safe and undo"
AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
I have one of these, but, with the 10G network option and never saw this issue. Have to say I'm loving that little Mac mini. It was relatively cheap, it's absurdly fast, it's completely silent, it sits mounted to my wall behind my monitors.
- heliostatic 4y ago
  Interesting! I also got the Pro with the 10G network card and haven't seen this issue.
- mwint 4y ago
  Curious, what do you use the 10G network for?
  - AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
    Speedtests? I have 10G internet at home. I want to tell you I have a compelling reason why I have 10G at my house but, really, I don't have one. There are some advantages besides speed though. Because it's DWDM FTTH (no PON, no DOCSIS, etc) I have 0 local congestion/issues and supreme reliability and a static IP. I don't do it for the speed.
    - herpderperator 4y ago
      You have your own dedicated fibre link? What ISP?
      - AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
        Comcast "Gigabit pro"
mepian 4y ago
I wonder what NIC it's using.
atomicnumber3 4y ago
Does this affect the non-Pro? I was just thinking about getting the entry model M2 Mini as essentially just a build server so that I could build apps in a cross-platform framework and then just use Apple's walled garden to xcode signing. But I'll probably buy the prior gen if the non-Pro M2's also have buddy NICs.
waingake 4y ago
This was an issue with the M1's when they were first released. Took a few months until they released a fix https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253647922 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253647922 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252564061 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252564061
uptown 4y ago
This comment claims to have a fix: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m2-pro-ethernet-issues.2378455/post-31914761 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m2-pro-ethernet-issues.... "So, folks -- I'm fairly sure this is a software issue. If you go to settings->network-><ethernet interface>->details->hardware and then change "Configure" to "manual", THEN change ANY setting (I turned off ABV/EAP mode), save/exit and then go in and change it back; the packet loss seems to stop. (I also tried changing duplex to 'flow control' and back again, just incase it helps anyone) I'm guessing the auto configuration has gotten something wrong and persisted it somehow. Try it out! 66 packets transmitted, 66 packets received, 0.0% packet loss"
- ed25519FUUU 4y ago
  Really glad it's helping some people. I'm bummed because it doesn't seem to be helping me, which makes me think there's some device on my network that isn't playing well with the mac mini. $ ping -c 100 <home router> ... --- <home router> ping statistics --- 100 packets transmitted, 89 packets received, 11.0% packet loss
frupert52 4y ago
It would be helpful if someone would be willing to perform a packet capture while experiencing and testing this problem. I’d be more than happy to analyse further. We should see the right number of valid ICMP packets put on the wire and whatever response we get back will be telling
- ed25519FUUU 4y ago
  Tell me what tcpdump one-liner magic you’d like and I’d be happy to provide a dump for you. I seem to be getting anywhere between 3% and 6% packet loss on my home network, pinging my server that is separated by about 6 feet of cat6 and a switch.
xuki 4y ago
I had this issue earlier, it’s something to do with the combination of the Ethernet port on the mini and my particular switch. I swapped in another switch and it has worked flawlessly so far.
ThomasBb 4y ago
Widespread equals ‘a few guys on a forum’ now?
- guggle 4y ago
  Yes, just like when SSDs would "die in 6 months" for first gen M1.
LaSombra 4y ago
When did it happen that macOS became Windows wrt answers like "Format it and see if the issue persists" or "Wipe the installation and try again"? I remember those as solutions for Windows registry bloat, so much so that reinstalling Windows was something scheduled regularly to avoid issues.

83 points by ed25519FUUU 4y ago

How many is "widespread?"

According to many commenters in the linked thread, it's fixed in MacOS 13.2.1. Not great that it happened at all, but good to see that it was a software issue.

segfaultbuserr 4y ago
Is it a software issue, or a hardware issue that could be worked around in software... (sorry for the rant as an embedded system developer).
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  To the end user, if it doesn't impair performance, does it matter?
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    To the end user, and doesn't impair performance, and covers all edge cases, then it doesn't matter if something is a workaround. But we're not being end users here, we're trying to look at what went wrong. And we don't know if the other two are true either.
    - mbreese 4y ago
      And, if it's something that's worked around in software (meaning, it was a hardware issue), that might have issues for things like Asahi Linux, which probably won't have that workaround in place.
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    Arguably it would impact the support for other OSes, especially alternative ones who'd need to reverse engineer the workaround and/or write their own to get the network stack working. It could also fall apart the day Apple decides this machine is not supported anymore, and their next OS won't have the correct drivers anymore. It's their prerogative, but will sure suck for the machine owners.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- loeg 4y ago
  The latter is very common in the desktop/server space, too. If you ever write or work on drivers, you know.
  - segfaultbuserr 4y ago
    > If you ever write or work on drivers, you know. Especially when the hardware vendor doesn't provide public documentation on the correct workaround.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
ed25519FUUU 4y ago
I have MacOS 13.2.1 and it's definitely not completely fixed -- but better. I did a ping test against my home router and I still get about 10% packet loss. Much better than the 40% when I first plugged it in.
- icedchai 4y ago
  Can you try a speed test? That level of packet loss will make TCP connections perform incredibly poorly.
  - ProAm 4y ago
    10% loss inside your home network is bonkers bad.
    - icedchai 4y ago
      Absolutely. I had ~2% loss on an old cable modem and it would drop my upload speeds to single digit megabits.
- singularity2001 4y ago
  Uff yeah it's still horrible! PING fritz.box (192.168.1.1): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=11.845 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=24.287 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=3.120 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=2.630 ms Request timeout for icmp_seq 4 Request timeout for icmp_seq 5 Request timeout for icmp_seq 6 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=64 time=0.801 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=1.139 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=0.772 ms Request timeout for icmp_seq 10 Request timeout for icmp_seq 11 Request timeout for icmp_seq 12 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=13 ttl=64 time=0.784 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=14 ttl=64 time=0.674 ms The above suggestion fixes it, hopefully permanently: settings->network-><ethernet interface>->details->hardware "change anything, safe and undo"

AdamJacobMuller 4y ago

I have one of these, but, with the 10G network option and never saw this issue. Have to say I'm loving that little Mac mini. It was relatively cheap, it's absurdly fast, it's completely silent, it sits mounted to my wall behind my monitors.

heliostatic 4y ago
Interesting! I also got the Pro with the 10G network card and haven't seen this issue.
mwint 4y ago
Curious, what do you use the 10G network for?
- AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
  Speedtests? I have 10G internet at home. I want to tell you I have a compelling reason why I have 10G at my house but, really, I don't have one. There are some advantages besides speed though. Because it's DWDM FTTH (no PON, no DOCSIS, etc) I have 0 local congestion/issues and supreme reliability and a static IP. I don't do it for the speed.
  - herpderperator 4y ago
    You have your own dedicated fibre link? What ISP?
    - AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
      Comcast "Gigabit pro"

mepian 4y ago

I wonder what NIC it's using.

atomicnumber3 4y ago

Does this affect the non-Pro? I was just thinking about getting the entry model M2 Mini as essentially just a build server so that I could build apps in a cross-platform framework and then just use Apple's walled garden to xcode signing. But I'll probably buy the prior gen if the non-Pro M2's also have buddy NICs.

waingake 4y ago

This was an issue with the M1's when they were first released. Took a few months until they released a fix https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253647922 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253647922 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252564061 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252564061

uptown 4y ago

This comment claims to have a fix: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m2-pro-ethernet-issues.2378455/post-31914761 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m2-pro-ethernet-issues.... "So, folks -- I'm fairly sure this is a software issue. If you go to settings->network-><ethernet interface>->details->hardware and then change "Configure" to "manual", THEN change ANY setting (I turned off ABV/EAP mode), save/exit and then go in and change it back; the packet loss seems to stop. (I also tried changing duplex to 'flow control' and back again, just incase it helps anyone) I'm guessing the auto configuration has gotten something wrong and persisted it somehow. Try it out! 66 packets transmitted, 66 packets received, 0.0% packet loss"

ed25519FUUU 4y ago
Really glad it's helping some people. I'm bummed because it doesn't seem to be helping me, which makes me think there's some device on my network that isn't playing well with the mac mini. $ ping -c 100 <home router> ... --- <home router> ping statistics --- 100 packets transmitted, 89 packets received, 11.0% packet loss

frupert52 4y ago

It would be helpful if someone would be willing to perform a packet capture while experiencing and testing this problem. I’d be more than happy to analyse further. We should see the right number of valid ICMP packets put on the wire and whatever response we get back will be telling

ed25519FUUU 4y ago
Tell me what tcpdump one-liner magic you’d like and I’d be happy to provide a dump for you. I seem to be getting anywhere between 3% and 6% packet loss on my home network, pinging my server that is separated by about 6 feet of cat6 and a switch.

xuki 4y ago

I had this issue earlier, it’s something to do with the combination of the Ethernet port on the mini and my particular switch. I swapped in another switch and it has worked flawlessly so far.

ThomasBb 4y ago

Widespread equals ‘a few guys on a forum’ now?

guggle 4y ago
Yes, just like when SSDs would "die in 6 months" for first gen M1.

LaSombra 4y ago

When did it happen that macOS became Windows wrt answers like "Format it and see if the issue persists" or "Wipe the installation and try again"? I remember those as solutions for Windows registry bloat, so much so that reinstalling Windows was something scheduled regularly to avoid issues.