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I hope that doesn't come across too negative, but that sounds more like a problem that you personally have than something inherent from the customization that L

I hope that doesn't come across too negative, but that sounds more like a problem that you personally have than something inherent from the customization that Linux offers. I run Arch with i3, vim, and tmux and quite frankly I don't think I spend more than an a couple of hours per month maintaining my configuration, and I don't see exactly where one would spend so much time. If you struggle with that, instead of changing your config, write down on a notepad the changes that you would do, and at the end of the week review them. Chances are the majority of stuff is unimportant.

ctvo 4y ago
> I don't think I spend more than an a couple of hours per month maintaining my configuration This is... still significant. Outside of auto updates sometimes rebooting my laptop overnight and major version bumps requiring me to hit the "update" button explicitly once a year, I'm unsure what "maintaining my configuration" would entail once things were setup to your liking on macOS.
- lttlrck 4y ago
  I'm not sure what the GP is maintaining but I have used the latest Fedora and Sway (and i3 before that) day-in and day-out for years, all I do is run dnf update once in a while... it gets completely out of the way.
  - tempest_ 4y ago
    Yeah, I use an arch derivative so its a rolling distro and even with the problems that entails I update packages about once a week and have not had issues since a bug got me 2 years ago. How often are things changing for these people that configs need to constantly reviewed?
    - palata 4y ago
      I guess some people want heavier customisation, whereas they just accept what macOS enforces. I have been using different Linux distros in the last 15 years (mostly Arch, so rolling), and really I don't customise much (default i3, default vim, etc). Doesn't really require any maintenance at all, I would say.
- eointierney 4y ago
  Spending a few hours a month maintaining GNU/Linux is perhaps the single most effective learning process for Computer Science I know. The entire stack (except binary blobs) is always available and something novel occurs everytime. I love fixing my Linux, I get to read about so many aspects of stuff I didn't know before. And with NixOS it's more than cummulative it's a multiplier. Gonna get me a second-hand M1 or M2 soon.....
  - adamwk 4y ago
    I don’t see how this can be true under any definition of computer science. I used linux in college and I think it was useful, but more as an immersion learning program for the Unix abstraction than anything related to what i was studying (CS). I didn’t learn much about algorithms, or digital systems, or compilers by setting up arch Linux. Even my OS class, it’s not like learning about swap helps understand context switching or even virtual memory. I relate to how satisfying it can be tinkering with things but a lot of times it’s just distracting. Like spending a day optimizing productivity tools instead of being productive. Or trying to get your laptop to recognize and change audio output when plugging in headphones instead of studying for a midterm.
    - palata 4y ago
      Well you can't deny that if you understand how to compile your kernel, how to make a rootfs, what a primary/secondary bootloader is, etc, then you actually have learned about computers, right? Try Linux from scratch, then ask yourself how macOS, Windows and *BSD solve those problems. Wouldn't you call that computer science?
      - eythian 4y ago
        No, not really. They're closer to the equivalent of learning how to install a new lens in your telescope so you can do more astronomy. You've learnt about telescopes, which is a very useful skill, but it's not the same thing as astronomy.
        4y ago
sanderjd 4y ago
A couple hours a month sounds like a large and annoying amount to me.
- palata 4y ago
  I am genuinely surprised by how many people find that 2h a month is a lot of time, especially when it's about maintaining their work station. I mean reading HN comments probably doesn't take them much less, does it?
  - olliej 4y ago
    I think it’s because most people assume that their setup doesn’t need maintenance at all. So any amount of time just needing to be invested simply to keep things working is strange - 2 hours seems excessivr
    - uberduper 4y ago
      They don't think about the time they spend updating brew, or dealing with pipx, or waiting for corporate McAfee AV to update, or figuring out weird docker/rancher/podman on osx issues, or "ffff `date` doesn't work that same as anything else..."
      - afavour 4y ago
        Out of that list updating brew is about the only thing I regularly encounter and even then I can just it run while I do something else.
        diffeomorphism 4y ago
        And you think those two hours are not "while I do something else"? I highly doubt you can spend two hours of active time a month on maintenance even if you tried. However, if you count "clicked yes, then it took 30 minutes to download and update" as 30 minutes, then this seems about right for any OS.
vouaobrasil 4y ago
I am going to have to disagre with that....like the other poster said, a couple hours is a lot. I also tried to avoid maintenance a lot with XFCE, but part of the problem is that I could never get it to look exactly like I wanted. There were always some minor GUI bugs that irked me to no end. Add to that, there were some weird inconsistencies because for a long time there were both GTK2 and GTK3 programs running at the same time and they didn't look quite normal. Then there was the problem of those new-style GTK interfaces with just the hamburger menu, and not all programs were like that. I tried to fix that too somehow by moving to other Window managers but there was always some weird problem.....arrgg I LOVE linux, but (I hate to say it) MacOS just looks nicer with less fiddling.
- xbar 4y ago
  A couple hours is a lot per month.
  - allenrb 4y ago
    Speaking as someone with a hefty dose of ADHD and anxiety, I can only dream of wasting a mere two hours per month. It blows me away to think of two hours being a major distraction for anyone. Count yourselves lucky!
    - smith7018 4y ago
      Some of us have families.
      - allenrb 4y ago
        Myself included.
  - farresito 4y ago
    That's a worst case. The vast majority of the time I don't touch anything. I was just trying to point out that once you have a stable config that works out for you, there is no need to constantly change it.
tcmart14 4y ago
I think it is entirely up to the person. I know people who are insanely productive on linux, I am. But I also know people who get so distracted by customization, they never seem to get anything done other than, "check out how I got vim to look today!" Some people get stuck down the customization/r/unixporn rabbit hole.
esperent 4y ago
> I don't think I spend more than an a couple of hours per month maintaining my configuration I use Windows and the number of hours per month I spend on maintenance and configuration is close to zero. Every so often I think about switching back to Linux but these comments remind me why I switched.
- circuit10 4y ago
  Remember, that’s for a highly customised setup, for a normal preconfigured desktop distro you’ll need a lot less
  - esperent 4y ago
    Sure I understand that. The thing is, I like tinkering and customizing. I'm sure most other people here do too. The fact that my chosen OS is kind of crappy in that regard is an advantage as it stops me from getting distracted and then I can spend that time working on things that matter to me instead. I'm pretty good at being focused, and getting better over time. But nobody has perfect focus, we're all prone to distractions. I want my desktop to be a tool for running software, not a source of yet more distraction. It's the same reason I don't install games on my work computer. I did use Ubuntu as my main desktop for a while, I guess about a decade ago. I stopped because it took so much effort to get basic stuff working on my system at the time - graphics drivers were especially hard. As others pointed out, I did learn a lot from this experience. But nowadays my life is busy, I run a business and I need to focus my work time and spend it, well, working. Not tinkering with the systems I use to do work. My free time, I also don't want to spend tinkering with the OS. I'd rather go to the beach.
    - diffeomorphism 4y ago
      > My free time, I also don't want to spend tinkering with the OS. I'd rather go to the beach. Which is why I tend to avoid windows. Windows updates, updates by the individual apps, figuring out how to disable misfeatures etc. ; takes much more time and maintenance than linux.
    - 4y ago
codethief 4y ago
> I run Arch with i3, vim, and tmux and quite frankly I don't think I spend more than an a couple of hours per month maintaining my configuration Like others have said, that is a lot. And I'm saying this as someone who's been running Ubuntu with i3 for the past 10 years or so. I practically don't spend any time on my configuration, unless maybe an hour or two when I upgrade Ubuntu.
- palata 4y ago
  I also don't really spend time maintaining my Linux, but I don't think 2h a month is a lot. I mean, I probably spend more time reading HN comments or restarting Xcode (after cleaning the cache, and the hidden cache, and the DerivedData) when I work on macOS xD
AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
It might be a personal problem, using MacOS is how I work around it :) Like I said, I love linux, I run linux on literally 1000s of servers worldwide, the work Ashai developers are doing is amazing. I'll probably never again run it on my desktop/laptop.

ctvo 4y ago

> I don't think I spend more than an a couple of hours per month maintaining my configuration This is... still significant. Outside of auto updates sometimes rebooting my laptop overnight and major version bumps requiring me to hit the "update" button explicitly once a year, I'm unsure what "maintaining my configuration" would entail once things were setup to your liking on macOS.

lttlrck 4y ago
I'm not sure what the GP is maintaining but I have used the latest Fedora and Sway (and i3 before that) day-in and day-out for years, all I do is run dnf update once in a while... it gets completely out of the way.
- tempest_ 4y ago
  Yeah, I use an arch derivative so its a rolling distro and even with the problems that entails I update packages about once a week and have not had issues since a bug got me 2 years ago. How often are things changing for these people that configs need to constantly reviewed?
  - palata 4y ago
    I guess some people want heavier customisation, whereas they just accept what macOS enforces. I have been using different Linux distros in the last 15 years (mostly Arch, so rolling), and really I don't customise much (default i3, default vim, etc). Doesn't really require any maintenance at all, I would say.
eointierney 4y ago
Spending a few hours a month maintaining GNU/Linux is perhaps the single most effective learning process for Computer Science I know. The entire stack (except binary blobs) is always available and something novel occurs everytime. I love fixing my Linux, I get to read about so many aspects of stuff I didn't know before. And with NixOS it's more than cummulative it's a multiplier. Gonna get me a second-hand M1 or M2 soon.....
- adamwk 4y ago
  I don’t see how this can be true under any definition of computer science. I used linux in college and I think it was useful, but more as an immersion learning program for the Unix abstraction than anything related to what i was studying (CS). I didn’t learn much about algorithms, or digital systems, or compilers by setting up arch Linux. Even my OS class, it’s not like learning about swap helps understand context switching or even virtual memory. I relate to how satisfying it can be tinkering with things but a lot of times it’s just distracting. Like spending a day optimizing productivity tools instead of being productive. Or trying to get your laptop to recognize and change audio output when plugging in headphones instead of studying for a midterm.
  - palata 4y ago
    Well you can't deny that if you understand how to compile your kernel, how to make a rootfs, what a primary/secondary bootloader is, etc, then you actually have learned about computers, right? Try Linux from scratch, then ask yourself how macOS, Windows and *BSD solve those problems. Wouldn't you call that computer science?
    - eythian 4y ago
      No, not really. They're closer to the equivalent of learning how to install a new lens in your telescope so you can do more astronomy. You've learnt about telescopes, which is a very useful skill, but it's not the same thing as astronomy.
      - 4y ago

sanderjd 4y ago

A couple hours a month sounds like a large and annoying amount to me.

palata 4y ago
I am genuinely surprised by how many people find that 2h a month is a lot of time, especially when it's about maintaining their work station. I mean reading HN comments probably doesn't take them much less, does it?
- olliej 4y ago
  I think it’s because most people assume that their setup doesn’t need maintenance at all. So any amount of time just needing to be invested simply to keep things working is strange - 2 hours seems excessivr
  - uberduper 4y ago
    They don't think about the time they spend updating brew, or dealing with pipx, or waiting for corporate McAfee AV to update, or figuring out weird docker/rancher/podman on osx issues, or "ffff `date` doesn't work that same as anything else..."
    - afavour 4y ago
      Out of that list updating brew is about the only thing I regularly encounter and even then I can just it run while I do something else.
      - diffeomorphism 4y ago
        And you think those two hours are not "while I do something else"? I highly doubt you can spend two hours of active time a month on maintenance even if you tried. However, if you count "clicked yes, then it took 30 minutes to download and update" as 30 minutes, then this seems about right for any OS.

vouaobrasil 4y ago

I am going to have to disagre with that....like the other poster said, a couple hours is a lot. I also tried to avoid maintenance a lot with XFCE, but part of the problem is that I could never get it to look exactly like I wanted. There were always some minor GUI bugs that irked me to no end. Add to that, there were some weird inconsistencies because for a long time there were both GTK2 and GTK3 programs running at the same time and they didn't look quite normal. Then there was the problem of those new-style GTK interfaces with just the hamburger menu, and not all programs were like that. I tried to fix that too somehow by moving to other Window managers but there was always some weird problem.....arrgg I LOVE linux, but (I hate to say it) MacOS just looks nicer with less fiddling.

xbar 4y ago
A couple hours is a lot per month.
- allenrb 4y ago
  Speaking as someone with a hefty dose of ADHD and anxiety, I can only dream of wasting a mere two hours per month. It blows me away to think of two hours being a major distraction for anyone. Count yourselves lucky!
  - smith7018 4y ago
    Some of us have families.
    - allenrb 4y ago
      Myself included.
- farresito 4y ago
  That's a worst case. The vast majority of the time I don't touch anything. I was just trying to point out that once you have a stable config that works out for you, there is no need to constantly change it.

tcmart14 4y ago

I think it is entirely up to the person. I know people who are insanely productive on linux, I am. But I also know people who get so distracted by customization, they never seem to get anything done other than, "check out how I got vim to look today!" Some people get stuck down the customization/r/unixporn rabbit hole.

esperent 4y ago

> I don't think I spend more than an a couple of hours per month maintaining my configuration I use Windows and the number of hours per month I spend on maintenance and configuration is close to zero. Every so often I think about switching back to Linux but these comments remind me why I switched.

circuit10 4y ago
Remember, that’s for a highly customised setup, for a normal preconfigured desktop distro you’ll need a lot less
- esperent 4y ago
  Sure I understand that. The thing is, I like tinkering and customizing. I'm sure most other people here do too. The fact that my chosen OS is kind of crappy in that regard is an advantage as it stops me from getting distracted and then I can spend that time working on things that matter to me instead. I'm pretty good at being focused, and getting better over time. But nobody has perfect focus, we're all prone to distractions. I want my desktop to be a tool for running software, not a source of yet more distraction. It's the same reason I don't install games on my work computer. I did use Ubuntu as my main desktop for a while, I guess about a decade ago. I stopped because it took so much effort to get basic stuff working on my system at the time - graphics drivers were especially hard. As others pointed out, I did learn a lot from this experience. But nowadays my life is busy, I run a business and I need to focus my work time and spend it, well, working. Not tinkering with the systems I use to do work. My free time, I also don't want to spend tinkering with the OS. I'd rather go to the beach.
  - diffeomorphism 4y ago
    > My free time, I also don't want to spend tinkering with the OS. I'd rather go to the beach. Which is why I tend to avoid windows. Windows updates, updates by the individual apps, figuring out how to disable misfeatures etc. ; takes much more time and maintenance than linux.
  - 4y ago

codethief 4y ago

> I run Arch with i3, vim, and tmux and quite frankly I don't think I spend more than an a couple of hours per month maintaining my configuration Like others have said, that is a lot. And I'm saying this as someone who's been running Ubuntu with i3 for the past 10 years or so. I practically don't spend any time on my configuration, unless maybe an hour or two when I upgrade Ubuntu.

palata 4y ago
I also don't really spend time maintaining my Linux, but I don't think 2h a month is a lot. I mean, I probably spend more time reading HN comments or restarting Xcode (after cleaning the cache, and the hidden cache, and the DerivedData) when I work on macOS xD

AdamJacobMuller 4y ago

It might be a personal problem, using MacOS is how I work around it :) Like I said, I love linux, I run linux on literally 1000s of servers worldwide, the work Ashai developers are doing is amazing. I'll probably never again run it on my desktop/laptop.