6 ms·

I feel like most of my creative problem solving happens when I'm not working on the problem. There seems to be, roughly speaking, a three part process: * A lo

I feel like most of my creative problem solving happens when I'm not working on the problem. There seems to be, roughly speaking, a three part process: * A loading phase where I immerse into the problem. This requires silence and concentration. Basically staring at the problem and its various aspects for a few hours. Hmm. What if? No. But maybe. Nope. Hmm. Hmm. The problem will often seem too big to fit in my head. I can sort of fumble and grasp its outline, but I don't see it clearly. * A background processing phase, this requires a sense of almost boredom. I need to step away from the keyboard. A disengagement from further input, from intellectual stimuli in general. I can't distract myself with entertainment either. I must be a bit bored. * All the sudden there will be clarity, deep insight into what needs to be created. Like the microwave going bing, signalling the cooking is ready. I'll solve not only one problem, but half a dozen. The solutions come faster than I can implement them. I need to pace myself and write my ideas down before I implement them. It's a heck of a ride.

trashymctrash 4y ago
Very well put. I love the metaphors, especially the "microwave going bing" :D Just curious: Where would you put "gather input or feedback from peers" in that process?
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  I don't think that is part of this process. It's certainly part of engineering, but not this side of creative problem solving. This is way off in the deep end. I guess it may be part of early phase 1 in the sense of immersing myself in the problem space, but often I don't know even know what problem I'm solving. Like, not really know it. The moment of clarity is when the question is revealed and the answer is obvious. It's a real parting of the clouds moment.
- 8note 4y ago
  Part 1, and after part 3
- rolenthedeep 4y ago
  That's step 4. Generally (for me, anyway) the insight is still pretty unformed. Peer input helps refine that idea into something more concise and actionable. It's not always required, but it is always beneficial.
brightball 4y ago
Accurate. This cycle is a big part of the reason why I don't like situations where I have developers context switching constantly. I find that this doesn't happen unless I'm absorbed in a single problem.
pyrolistical 4y ago
Yep. Same cycle https://blog.battlefy.com/how-a-principal-developer-solves-any-problem https://blog.battlefy.com/how-a-principal-developer-solves-a...
thealienthing 4y ago
Sometimes I get that epiphany of “oh I forgot this!” Then run back to my computer to try it. Usually that wasn’t the problem but after running back two or three times I my epiphany turns out to be true
- schlowmo 4y ago
  I really know what you mean. It almost seems like the first epiphany never gets it right one hundred percent. But oftentimes epiphany number two is a step back and the right one after that is just number one with a small twist.
vi2837 4y ago
Nothing new here, it is a well known problem solving method for physicists.
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  I'm a physicist by education, coincidentally.
  - vi2837 4y ago
    I am too and working in software development :).
whateveracct 4y ago
I also have this process. Sadly, it means I cannot go faster to some degree. Which becomes a pain when a manager wants Velocity.
alt227 4y ago
Completely agree. Excuse the crudeness, but for me your 'Step 2' is to go and sit on the toilet. I have solved untold amounts of problems by stepping away from the computer and sitting on the pot for 20 mins.
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  That can help, or just the classic shower insight, but for me I often get even bigger dividends by stepping way away from the computer. I've had absolute avalanches of new insights when I've been away from any sort of computer for days. It feels like the process of loading more "problem" into the working buffer interrupts or even resets these background processes to some degree.
  - jareklupinski 4y ago
    it's the shower for me too something about the sound that helps detune the parts of the brain that aren't needed, giving maximum energy/flexibility to the background cores
    - mordae 4y ago
      Works in the tub as well. I believe it's a combination of white noise from the water, lack of windows and screens and hot water feeling relaxing.
    - Aeolun 4y ago
      Hmm, for me I think part of it is the certainty that you won’t get interrupted or distracted while sitting or showering.
- fakedang 4y ago
  No shame there. I figured out the answer to a question posed by a professor (which later evolved into my master's thesis), while sitting on the porcelain throne. Letting go of a few solids perhaps let's your mental obstacles loosen.
- gurjeet 4y ago
mgfist 4y ago
For me it's always more effective to be doing something physical in the second phase. Walking, chores, showering. It helps the focus.
eshack94 4y ago
I'm a bit taken aback by how accurately your creative problem solving process resembles mine. I've never been able to explain it so eloquently or cohesively. During the first phase, the "problem will often seem too big to fit in my head" is so accurate, especially while I'm still focused on understanding the problem (prior to breaking it down into more manageable pieces). I appreciate this comment, thank you.
- maegul 4y ago
  Not to detract from your feeling, but I suspect it’s more universal than you might think, and probably stands as a significant critique of mainstream conceptions of “work” where human problem solving is treated as a machine or resource rather than a discrete process.
- SamPatt 4y ago
  For me the issue is that there are so many pieces, I can't hold them all in my head together. But that period of stepping away seems to allow me to combine a few pieces and then treat that new piece as a single piece, so I'm able to hold much more. (Easily noticeable when coding same program over time). I don't think I can consciously do that. It only happens if I study and consider the problem daily for at least 4-5 days, sometimes longer.
nathias 4y ago
for me its similar but I don't need boredom, I either get the insight randomly or in dreams/waking up
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  I think boredom is maybe the wrong thing. I can't be too engaged in something. That seems to sabotage the process. I can't play video games or watch some exciting movie (or scroll HN ;-) Physical work can help. Or just doing something that's not too engaging.
  - nathias 4y ago
    yea I understand, I can work on multiple problems, but the most interesting will win
- SL61 4y ago
  It's the same for me: the eureka moment happens when I'm not consciously thinking of the problem at all, and often I'm fully engaged in an unrelated activity. Some places I've experienced sudden insight for a technical problem: * playing a video game on Saturday evening * briefly awake at 3am to use the bathroom * shopping for tea kettles on Amazon * reading aloud in a writer's group The idea just pops into my head, sometimes throwing me off the task I'm actually focused on. I assume there's a subconscious portion of my brain still calculating the problem even when I don't realize it, but I can see why some people believe their insights come from a higher power.
cainxinth 4y ago
> It's a heck of a ride. Funny, you conclude that way because a lot of my background processing and moments of sudden clarity happen when I go cycling after work.
- andrepd 4y ago
  For me it's either walks in nature or in the loo.
- cainxinth 4y ago
  I also had a moment of sudden clarity upon rereading this comment. The comma was supposed to go after 'way.'
simpsond 4y ago
Almost OODA like. I have a similar process. I noticed that when I started taking cat naps mid afternoon, loaded with context, a solution would find me. Walks are good too.
uptownfunk 4y ago
This mimics physical exercise. You lift heavy weight actively, and then you go rest, then you come back and the next (day/week/month) you can suddenly lift heavier (assuming you're getting the right nutrition/rest and avoiding toxic substances) Similarly the brain muscles, you work them out actively, then you rest, some background magic is happening, and when you come back and revisit it, all of a sudden the problem can be easier. You can do something / solve something that all of a sudden you couldn't do previously. The eureka/a-ha moment is a little unique to intellectual work. It's hard to find something that gives a similar rush to cracking a hard problem. Brings back some fond memories solving USAMO/IMO problems.
ChuckMcM 4y ago
I, like clearly a lot of others :-), resonate with this form. For me step 2 is walking. Taking a walk for a couple of miles around the neighborhood is "just boring enough" to trigger this background processing phase.
dbcurtis 4y ago
You very succinctly put what creativity researchers (yes, that’s a thing) have been saying for decades. 1. Immersion in the problem. Work diligently. 2. Relax 3. Insight
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
spfzero 4y ago
Bill Lear is quoted as having described his creative process similarly. Can't find a reference to it now but I read it decades ago and never forgot it.
maccard 4y ago
I've found exercise works best for step 2, fwiw. I rotate weightlifting, yoga, golf and dog walking with great success.
keyle 4y ago
It's amusing but most people get stuck on the first phase, endlessly browsing and bookmarking, watching youtube videos, and eventually, distracted to hell, RIP creativity "it's all too hard" or "it's been solved before by people much better than me".
UncleOxidant 4y ago
I find that the background processing phase usually happens when I'm out on a walk or sometimes it happens when I'm sleeping - it's a cool, but kind of weird feeling when you wake up and the answer to some difficult problem is just there in your head - I've had that happen only a couple of times, more often it happens when I'm out on a walk.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
What you’re describing sounds a lot like what Rich Hickey described as “hammock driven development”, and I tend to agree/relate. Almost all of my big leaps doing anything happen after I’ve taken a break from the thing I’m focused on, and I often come back with not just a better solution to the task but a good sense of how a bunch of other things are interrelated to either the problem or the solution or both.
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  "hammock driven development": I am laughing out loud. Thank you. I will steal that and use it again later!
  - yesenadam 4y ago
    He gave a well-known talk with that name - Hammock Driven Development, Rich Hickey, Closure Conj 2010 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc
andrepd 4y ago
Usually the bing/eureka phase happens in the loo for me, for some reason. Maybe it's just when I'm stretching my legs in general, be it to get a coffee or refill the water bottle or during a walk in nature.
GenerocUsername 4y ago
I've experienced this repeatedly in my career yet no official business process ever even acknowledges it's existence as a tool
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
schlowmo 4y ago
> A background processing phase, this requires a sense of almost boredom. I can relate very well to the phases of probleming solving you described. But for me it's forgetting about the problem even for a short period of time instead of boredom. When I'm deep into the first phase I sometimes get a bit too attached to a point were the problem is the first thought that comes to my mind after waking up (well...if I'm really stuck there might be even some weird dreams about it). In the past I started to cancel non-work-related activities until I solved the problem. But I've learned that this oftentimes just lead to frustration - when the day is over I missed out on a nice evening with friends and still haven't solved the problem. But when I just let it go for a few hours more than once the solution came right to me when I was on my bike back home. Just when I noticed that I haven't thought about the problem for the past few hours. Sometimes this can get a bit demanding if I then happen to be past the Ballmer Peak.
bitL 4y ago
I used to get the best ideas when I decided to do something completely different in the middle of a problem, e.g. walk/bike to a forest etc., allowed by WFH. Suddenly something clicked and I figured out the solution. However, most companies hate this and rather force me to struggle for a week on some tough problem instead of utilizing this shortcut. With the cultural demise of FAANG and their move towards a sweatshop-like handling of swengs I don't think there will be any top-end company that would accept this approach.
hyperthesis 4y ago
http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html
andreareina 4y ago
https://wiki.c2.com/?FeynmanAlgorithm https://wiki.c2.com/?FeynmanAlgorithm
throwaway290 4y ago
Yes that's roughly how it works... The insight state is dangerous tho because it can easily turn out to be wrong later but it feels good so I often stop exploring and forget to challenge it until it's too late.
bobwaycott 4y ago
I have taken to calling this shower-driven development—because all my breakthrough moments always happen in the shower.
throwaway2037 4y ago
I have heard that writing and creating art (all forms, including music) is best after a period of boredom. I agree 100%: Nothing gets me fired up about a hard problem like a period of boredom. Many eureka ("ah-ha!") moments come to me while my brain is under-stimulated, like riding a train, washing dishes, showering, or grocery shopping.

trashymctrash 4y ago

Very well put. I love the metaphors, especially the "microwave going bing" :D Just curious: Where would you put "gather input or feedback from peers" in that process?

marginalia_nu 4y ago
I don't think that is part of this process. It's certainly part of engineering, but not this side of creative problem solving. This is way off in the deep end. I guess it may be part of early phase 1 in the sense of immersing myself in the problem space, but often I don't know even know what problem I'm solving. Like, not really know it. The moment of clarity is when the question is revealed and the answer is obvious. It's a real parting of the clouds moment.
8note 4y ago
Part 1, and after part 3
rolenthedeep 4y ago
That's step 4. Generally (for me, anyway) the insight is still pretty unformed. Peer input helps refine that idea into something more concise and actionable. It's not always required, but it is always beneficial.

brightball 4y ago

Accurate. This cycle is a big part of the reason why I don't like situations where I have developers context switching constantly. I find that this doesn't happen unless I'm absorbed in a single problem.

pyrolistical 4y ago

Yep. Same cycle https://blog.battlefy.com/how-a-principal-developer-solves-any-problem https://blog.battlefy.com/how-a-principal-developer-solves-a...

thealienthing 4y ago

Sometimes I get that epiphany of “oh I forgot this!” Then run back to my computer to try it. Usually that wasn’t the problem but after running back two or three times I my epiphany turns out to be true

schlowmo 4y ago
I really know what you mean. It almost seems like the first epiphany never gets it right one hundred percent. But oftentimes epiphany number two is a step back and the right one after that is just number one with a small twist.

vi2837 4y ago

Nothing new here, it is a well known problem solving method for physicists.

marginalia_nu 4y ago
I'm a physicist by education, coincidentally.
- vi2837 4y ago
  I am too and working in software development :).

whateveracct 4y ago

I also have this process. Sadly, it means I cannot go faster to some degree. Which becomes a pain when a manager wants Velocity.

alt227 4y ago

Completely agree. Excuse the crudeness, but for me your 'Step 2' is to go and sit on the toilet. I have solved untold amounts of problems by stepping away from the computer and sitting on the pot for 20 mins.

marginalia_nu 4y ago
That can help, or just the classic shower insight, but for me I often get even bigger dividends by stepping way away from the computer. I've had absolute avalanches of new insights when I've been away from any sort of computer for days. It feels like the process of loading more "problem" into the working buffer interrupts or even resets these background processes to some degree.
- jareklupinski 4y ago
  it's the shower for me too something about the sound that helps detune the parts of the brain that aren't needed, giving maximum energy/flexibility to the background cores
  - mordae 4y ago
    Works in the tub as well. I believe it's a combination of white noise from the water, lack of windows and screens and hot water feeling relaxing.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    Hmm, for me I think part of it is the certainty that you won’t get interrupted or distracted while sitting or showering.
fakedang 4y ago
No shame there. I figured out the answer to a question posed by a professor (which later evolved into my master's thesis), while sitting on the porcelain throne. Letting go of a few solids perhaps let's your mental obstacles loosen.
gurjeet 4y ago

mgfist 4y ago

For me it's always more effective to be doing something physical in the second phase. Walking, chores, showering. It helps the focus.

eshack94 4y ago

I'm a bit taken aback by how accurately your creative problem solving process resembles mine. I've never been able to explain it so eloquently or cohesively. During the first phase, the "problem will often seem too big to fit in my head" is so accurate, especially while I'm still focused on understanding the problem (prior to breaking it down into more manageable pieces). I appreciate this comment, thank you.

maegul 4y ago
Not to detract from your feeling, but I suspect it’s more universal than you might think, and probably stands as a significant critique of mainstream conceptions of “work” where human problem solving is treated as a machine or resource rather than a discrete process.
SamPatt 4y ago
For me the issue is that there are so many pieces, I can't hold them all in my head together. But that period of stepping away seems to allow me to combine a few pieces and then treat that new piece as a single piece, so I'm able to hold much more. (Easily noticeable when coding same program over time). I don't think I can consciously do that. It only happens if I study and consider the problem daily for at least 4-5 days, sometimes longer.

nathias 4y ago

for me its similar but I don't need boredom, I either get the insight randomly or in dreams/waking up

marginalia_nu 4y ago
I think boredom is maybe the wrong thing. I can't be too engaged in something. That seems to sabotage the process. I can't play video games or watch some exciting movie (or scroll HN ;-) Physical work can help. Or just doing something that's not too engaging.
- nathias 4y ago
  yea I understand, I can work on multiple problems, but the most interesting will win
SL61 4y ago
It's the same for me: the eureka moment happens when I'm not consciously thinking of the problem at all, and often I'm fully engaged in an unrelated activity. Some places I've experienced sudden insight for a technical problem: * playing a video game on Saturday evening * briefly awake at 3am to use the bathroom * shopping for tea kettles on Amazon * reading aloud in a writer's group The idea just pops into my head, sometimes throwing me off the task I'm actually focused on. I assume there's a subconscious portion of my brain still calculating the problem even when I don't realize it, but I can see why some people believe their insights come from a higher power.

cainxinth 4y ago

> It's a heck of a ride. Funny, you conclude that way because a lot of my background processing and moments of sudden clarity happen when I go cycling after work.

andrepd 4y ago
For me it's either walks in nature or in the loo.
cainxinth 4y ago
I also had a moment of sudden clarity upon rereading this comment. The comma was supposed to go after 'way.'

simpsond 4y ago

Almost OODA like. I have a similar process. I noticed that when I started taking cat naps mid afternoon, loaded with context, a solution would find me. Walks are good too.

uptownfunk 4y ago

This mimics physical exercise. You lift heavy weight actively, and then you go rest, then you come back and the next (day/week/month) you can suddenly lift heavier (assuming you're getting the right nutrition/rest and avoiding toxic substances) Similarly the brain muscles, you work them out actively, then you rest, some background magic is happening, and when you come back and revisit it, all of a sudden the problem can be easier. You can do something / solve something that all of a sudden you couldn't do previously. The eureka/a-ha moment is a little unique to intellectual work. It's hard to find something that gives a similar rush to cracking a hard problem. Brings back some fond memories solving USAMO/IMO problems.

ChuckMcM 4y ago

I, like clearly a lot of others :-), resonate with this form. For me step 2 is walking. Taking a walk for a couple of miles around the neighborhood is "just boring enough" to trigger this background processing phase.

dbcurtis 4y ago

You very succinctly put what creativity researchers (yes, that’s a thing) have been saying for decades. 1. Immersion in the problem. Work diligently. 2. Relax 3. Insight

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

spfzero 4y ago

Bill Lear is quoted as having described his creative process similarly. Can't find a reference to it now but I read it decades ago and never forgot it.

maccard 4y ago

I've found exercise works best for step 2, fwiw. I rotate weightlifting, yoga, golf and dog walking with great success.

keyle 4y ago

It's amusing but most people get stuck on the first phase, endlessly browsing and bookmarking, watching youtube videos, and eventually, distracted to hell, RIP creativity "it's all too hard" or "it's been solved before by people much better than me".

UncleOxidant 4y ago

I find that the background processing phase usually happens when I'm out on a walk or sometimes it happens when I'm sleeping - it's a cool, but kind of weird feeling when you wake up and the answer to some difficult problem is just there in your head - I've had that happen only a couple of times, more often it happens when I'm out on a walk.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

What you’re describing sounds a lot like what Rich Hickey described as “hammock driven development”, and I tend to agree/relate. Almost all of my big leaps doing anything happen after I’ve taken a break from the thing I’m focused on, and I often come back with not just a better solution to the task but a good sense of how a bunch of other things are interrelated to either the problem or the solution or both.

throwaway2037 4y ago
"hammock driven development": I am laughing out loud. Thank you. I will steal that and use it again later!
- yesenadam 4y ago
  He gave a well-known talk with that name - Hammock Driven Development, Rich Hickey, Closure Conj 2010 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc

andrepd 4y ago

Usually the bing/eureka phase happens in the loo for me, for some reason. Maybe it's just when I'm stretching my legs in general, be it to get a coffee or refill the water bottle or during a walk in nature.

GenerocUsername 4y ago

I've experienced this repeatedly in my career yet no official business process ever even acknowledges it's existence as a tool

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

schlowmo 4y ago

> A background processing phase, this requires a sense of almost boredom. I can relate very well to the phases of probleming solving you described. But for me it's forgetting about the problem even for a short period of time instead of boredom. When I'm deep into the first phase I sometimes get a bit too attached to a point were the problem is the first thought that comes to my mind after waking up (well...if I'm really stuck there might be even some weird dreams about it). In the past I started to cancel non-work-related activities until I solved the problem. But I've learned that this oftentimes just lead to frustration - when the day is over I missed out on a nice evening with friends and still haven't solved the problem. But when I just let it go for a few hours more than once the solution came right to me when I was on my bike back home. Just when I noticed that I haven't thought about the problem for the past few hours. Sometimes this can get a bit demanding if I then happen to be past the Ballmer Peak.

bitL 4y ago

I used to get the best ideas when I decided to do something completely different in the middle of a problem, e.g. walk/bike to a forest etc., allowed by WFH. Suddenly something clicked and I figured out the solution. However, most companies hate this and rather force me to struggle for a week on some tough problem instead of utilizing this shortcut. With the cultural demise of FAANG and their move towards a sweatshop-like handling of swengs I don't think there will be any top-end company that would accept this approach.

hyperthesis 4y ago

http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html

andreareina 4y ago

https://wiki.c2.com/?FeynmanAlgorithm https://wiki.c2.com/?FeynmanAlgorithm

throwaway290 4y ago

Yes that's roughly how it works... The insight state is dangerous tho because it can easily turn out to be wrong later but it feels good so I often stop exploring and forget to challenge it until it's too late.

bobwaycott 4y ago

I have taken to calling this shower-driven development—because all my breakthrough moments always happen in the shower.

throwaway2037 4y ago

I have heard that writing and creating art (all forms, including music) is best after a period of boredom. I agree 100%: Nothing gets me fired up about a hard problem like a period of boredom. Many eureka ("ah-ha!") moments come to me while my brain is under-stimulated, like riding a train, washing dishes, showering, or grocery shopping.