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I wonder how effective life coaching is to people in poverty. The condition seems to have a risk of just humiliating those who are poor. Do they have the scale

by clnq 4y ago

I wonder how effective life coaching is to people in poverty. The condition seems to have a risk of just humiliating those who are poor. Do they have the scale to do this for 80 families or more, or is it more of a rush job with the usual life advice those who are rich patronizingly give to those in poverty?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Manfred 4y ago
These coaches are usually people who come from the same families and neighborhoods that face these kinds of problems. Help with navigating government programs and simple tips and tricks with finances can make a huge difference.
- hnhamdani 4y ago
  I think this is more of the case. I used to live around the described neighborhood. It was an area with a notorious reputation as 'ghetto' where certain ethnic of immigrants live. I personally have no problem other than the casual nuisance and I have positive experience overall during my stay over there for a couple of years. The founder of the supermarket/umbrella foundation seems to have the similar background as the people live in the area. Thus, I think he has insight on what the community needs and how to help them.
jvm___ 4y ago
Have you tried not being poor? Life coach is dependent on the opportunities available to that family, otherwise the life coach might just be left with cutting the only entertainment or treat food the people buy to alleviate some of their daily stress.
- asdff 4y ago
  Life coaching could mean things like, here's how to open a bank account, here's how to navigate all the low income programs offered by the government, here's how to enroll in community college or a trade school, here's a local code bootcamp, here are the local food pantrys and their hours, here is a low cost daycare option, etc. All the things middle class people take for granted because its either irrelevant to them, or their parents who already understand these systems help them figure it all out.
phphphphp 4y ago
I completely agree with your skepticism but based on the description of the service I expect it to land on the good side. The problem with a lot of poverty focused charity is that it is, essentially, a payment to a vulnerable person to be dehumanised. Fortunately, that means we can assess a poverty charity easily: do they humanise the people receiving help? Allowing people to come into a store and shop and engage with bespoke support is very humanising, because it’s just removing money from the equation, it does not take away agency or trust. The support they’re offering is not one size fits all, or a jobs-pipeline, rather, it’s whatever the customers need help with — essentially, what someone with money pays for! There’s certainly the possibility that even a well designed service can become a karma-mill for the middle-class, but in this case, I think we can be quite optimistic. That said, “life coach” has terrible connotations in the US but I think that’s just something lost in translation.
kvdveer 4y ago
In a vacuum, i'd be inclined to agree with you. However, this is not rich people telling poor people to stop being poor. This exists in a extensive web of social organizations that work together to solve poverty at the root cause. I can't vouch for this specific organization, but i'm very familiar with similar organizations. This kind of organization runs on volunteers, many of whom have experienced poverty firsthand, and virtually all have experienced poverty secondhand. This kind of volunteer work is typically people actually caring, not people 'virtue-signaling'. This kind of work is done in intimate collaboration with municipal social services, which are typically well-respected in the Netherlands. There is no doubt in my mind that everyone involved is intending and capable of affecting a change for good. > I wonder how effective life coaching is to people in poverty. I've personally volunteered as a coach in poverty situations. It works. The coach doesn't need to do much, just listen to the problems people cope with, and occasionally point them towards a resource that'll help them is enough. Just being able to vent to someone who knows how it feels to deal with poverty might be enough. If it's not, helping people navigate social services and programmes typically ends up lifting them from poverty. It helps that in the Netherlands, poverty is typically unnecessary. There is (almost) guaranteed livable income for everyone independent of employment, due to our strong social security system.
- alright_scowl 4y ago
  > It helps that in the Netherlands, poverty is typically unnecessary. There is (almost) guaranteed livable income for everyone independent of employment, due to our strong social security system. I lived in multiple countries, including the Netherlands. Living there substantially changed how I view subjects such as taxation and social security. Taxes were high, but the benefits a strong social security brings to the place are great. Not saying that there's no waste, things that could be improved, etc. But in comparison to the other places I lived, the Dutch were way ahead of the curve.
mathieuh 4y ago
Perhaps "life coaching" here means something similar to a thing we have in the UK called the Citizens Advice Bureau which basically helps you navigate bureaucracy, as opposed to charlatans with shiny teeth teaching 10 simple tricks to get rich
xyzelement 4y ago
I keep hearing this but it doesn't resonate against my experience. My family came to the US in the early 90's with zero dollars, but now we're doing well. The difference between us and those who didn't make it out of the neighborhood was what we did with the little money and time we had. Basic things like figuring out how to get a bank account open vs paying a check cashing fee, things add up quickly. If you don't figure that stuff out, you're screwed. I find it off for poverty-advocates to get indignant when poverty education comes up, because they don't understand how much ignorance/lack of interest/lack of skill exists in those communities, and how much of a headwind that is. Forget things like encouraging your kids to study in school, apply for competitive courses - etc. Even if your kids are capable of that, if you don't know to push them, you perpetuate your poverty. In contrast to say Asian immigrants who drive their kids to excel and go from poverty to 1% in one generation. Any coaching that helps people recognize and take advantage of the resources and opportunities in front of them - if it actually sticks - is super valuable.
- pydry 4y ago
  Very often if you diff "poor successful immigrant" stories to the stories of poor people who grew up in the same city, the key difference was they relied on bonds of trust between them and other immigrants from their country that helped give them a leg up. I was pretty shocked to discover that one of my friends (2nd gen asian immigrant in amsterdam) had parents who even tapped large interest free loans, and that the community largely expected this kind of help to be given freely. >I find it off for poverty-advocates to get indignant when poverty education comes up Yeah, coz it's well known to be ineffective (by design, pretty much), and is almost universally used by banks and politicians fronting for banks to try and get the heat off their backs and let them keep raking in profits unimpeded. Stuff like interest rate caps and banning payday lending, on the other hand, is very effective but impedes profits. The goal of corporate lobbyists is to present solutions (usually faux) that appear genuine but don't impede profits.
  - kortilla 4y ago
    Banks don’t conduct payday loans and make very little from the poor. The payday loan industry != banking industry.
bluGill 4y ago
That depends. People are in poverty for many different reasons. I know people in poverty where the root cause is downs syndrome: they mentally don't have the ability to be any more than assistant usher at the movie theater. They can handle most usher tasks, but when there is someone difficult they need the head usher: some 16 year old kid who has been on the job for at least 2 weeks. I know people in poverty because they despite getting straight A's in school they dropped out at 16 and started having kids (I'm not sure if they dropped out before are after the kids started coming, it doesn't matter: both dropping out and having kids were intentional decisions). 10 years latter it finally occurred to them how much their bad life choices has hurt them. There is nothing a coach can do to help the first person, no matter what they will still be in poverty as they are not capable of doing better. The second just needs a bit of help to turn life around - this help will work now, but at 21 this person would have refused all help as they didn't see that they were doing anything wrong in the first place. Most people in poverty are somewhere in the middle of these two. The above is based on real people (though I'm hiding a lot of details for privacy reasons). These are not strawman examples, but they should feel like it. I intentionally picked people who are on the two far ends of the extremes.
- sofixa 4y ago
  Person 1 doesn't have to be in poverty, in most developed countries there would be disability help/insurance/payments/etc. to help them live a non-impoverished life because they cannot realistically work a job.
  - retrac 4y ago
    In most developed countries, disability payments mean living in significant, often crippling poverty. Here in Canada, a single disabled person that is expected to live independently receives about 800 USD per month from the government. Out of that, they're expected to pay all their expenses. Canada is relatively typical as such things go. In France or Germany it's about 1000 USD a month. It's about 900 USD in the United States. It's only some 300 - 500 USD in the UK. Depending on jurisdiction, there may or may not be subsidized housing which can make a big difference; but either way, many are paying market rate for housing. There are also other benefits, etc., that may alter the picture. But the overall picture is very very poor. The Scandinavian countries are the only major exception I can think of, where the disabled living only on a government pension might not actually be in poverty.
ravenstine 4y ago
It's tricky because maybe life coaching doesn't work for most of those in poverty but is good to have for the minority who respond to it.
foobarian 4y ago
You know, life coach helping a group of those in need almost sounds like a shepherd looking out for a flock... now where have I heard this before? I really wish we could take the good parts of organized religion and turn them into regular institutions. In our town the local library has taken on a strong community center role but that's just because the staff there happens to be excellent.
detrites 4y ago
Seems a bit close to "I wonder how effective knowledge is to people who don't have it." The two things required for this program to work are useful information & willing learners. By making it free, the organisers are incentivised to provide the first, and by requiring participation with a coach they're asking for the second. Could your question be more accurately stated as "is the information good?". People stay in bad situations when they don't know how to change and/or they don't want to change. The former is kind of up to those with knowledge, however ultimately nobody can do anything about the latter but those affected themselves.
foxyv 4y ago
Often I find that people in poverty have a great deal of trouble engaging in the external effort necessary to improve their situation. It's nearly impossible to muster the time and energy to fill out applications and forms necessary for assistance when you are barely treading water. Social workers and life coaches are really great when they are able to fill in the gaps. Help people acquire the resources they need and take advantage of the services offered to them that they may not already know about. Even something as simple as filling in a form properly can be life-changing. Not to mention connecting them to resources like housing assistance and debt forgiveness.

by clnq 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Manfred 4y ago

These coaches are usually people who come from the same families and neighborhoods that face these kinds of problems. Help with navigating government programs and simple tips and tricks with finances can make a huge difference.

hnhamdani 4y ago
I think this is more of the case. I used to live around the described neighborhood. It was an area with a notorious reputation as 'ghetto' where certain ethnic of immigrants live. I personally have no problem other than the casual nuisance and I have positive experience overall during my stay over there for a couple of years. The founder of the supermarket/umbrella foundation seems to have the similar background as the people live in the area. Thus, I think he has insight on what the community needs and how to help them.

jvm___ 4y ago

Have you tried not being poor? Life coach is dependent on the opportunities available to that family, otherwise the life coach might just be left with cutting the only entertainment or treat food the people buy to alleviate some of their daily stress.

asdff 4y ago
Life coaching could mean things like, here's how to open a bank account, here's how to navigate all the low income programs offered by the government, here's how to enroll in community college or a trade school, here's a local code bootcamp, here are the local food pantrys and their hours, here is a low cost daycare option, etc. All the things middle class people take for granted because its either irrelevant to them, or their parents who already understand these systems help them figure it all out.

phphphphp 4y ago

I completely agree with your skepticism but based on the description of the service I expect it to land on the good side. The problem with a lot of poverty focused charity is that it is, essentially, a payment to a vulnerable person to be dehumanised. Fortunately, that means we can assess a poverty charity easily: do they humanise the people receiving help? Allowing people to come into a store and shop and engage with bespoke support is very humanising, because it’s just removing money from the equation, it does not take away agency or trust. The support they’re offering is not one size fits all, or a jobs-pipeline, rather, it’s whatever the customers need help with — essentially, what someone with money pays for! There’s certainly the possibility that even a well designed service can become a karma-mill for the middle-class, but in this case, I think we can be quite optimistic. That said, “life coach” has terrible connotations in the US but I think that’s just something lost in translation.

kvdveer 4y ago

In a vacuum, i'd be inclined to agree with you. However, this is not rich people telling poor people to stop being poor. This exists in a extensive web of social organizations that work together to solve poverty at the root cause. I can't vouch for this specific organization, but i'm very familiar with similar organizations. This kind of organization runs on volunteers, many of whom have experienced poverty firsthand, and virtually all have experienced poverty secondhand. This kind of volunteer work is typically people actually caring, not people 'virtue-signaling'. This kind of work is done in intimate collaboration with municipal social services, which are typically well-respected in the Netherlands. There is no doubt in my mind that everyone involved is intending and capable of affecting a change for good. > I wonder how effective life coaching is to people in poverty. I've personally volunteered as a coach in poverty situations. It works. The coach doesn't need to do much, just listen to the problems people cope with, and occasionally point them towards a resource that'll help them is enough. Just being able to vent to someone who knows how it feels to deal with poverty might be enough. If it's not, helping people navigate social services and programmes typically ends up lifting them from poverty. It helps that in the Netherlands, poverty is typically unnecessary. There is (almost) guaranteed livable income for everyone independent of employment, due to our strong social security system.

alright_scowl 4y ago
> It helps that in the Netherlands, poverty is typically unnecessary. There is (almost) guaranteed livable income for everyone independent of employment, due to our strong social security system. I lived in multiple countries, including the Netherlands. Living there substantially changed how I view subjects such as taxation and social security. Taxes were high, but the benefits a strong social security brings to the place are great. Not saying that there's no waste, things that could be improved, etc. But in comparison to the other places I lived, the Dutch were way ahead of the curve.

mathieuh 4y ago

Perhaps "life coaching" here means something similar to a thing we have in the UK called the Citizens Advice Bureau which basically helps you navigate bureaucracy, as opposed to charlatans with shiny teeth teaching 10 simple tricks to get rich

xyzelement 4y ago

I keep hearing this but it doesn't resonate against my experience. My family came to the US in the early 90's with zero dollars, but now we're doing well. The difference between us and those who didn't make it out of the neighborhood was what we did with the little money and time we had. Basic things like figuring out how to get a bank account open vs paying a check cashing fee, things add up quickly. If you don't figure that stuff out, you're screwed. I find it off for poverty-advocates to get indignant when poverty education comes up, because they don't understand how much ignorance/lack of interest/lack of skill exists in those communities, and how much of a headwind that is. Forget things like encouraging your kids to study in school, apply for competitive courses - etc. Even if your kids are capable of that, if you don't know to push them, you perpetuate your poverty. In contrast to say Asian immigrants who drive their kids to excel and go from poverty to 1% in one generation. Any coaching that helps people recognize and take advantage of the resources and opportunities in front of them - if it actually sticks - is super valuable.

pydry 4y ago
Very often if you diff "poor successful immigrant" stories to the stories of poor people who grew up in the same city, the key difference was they relied on bonds of trust between them and other immigrants from their country that helped give them a leg up. I was pretty shocked to discover that one of my friends (2nd gen asian immigrant in amsterdam) had parents who even tapped large interest free loans, and that the community largely expected this kind of help to be given freely. >I find it off for poverty-advocates to get indignant when poverty education comes up Yeah, coz it's well known to be ineffective (by design, pretty much), and is almost universally used by banks and politicians fronting for banks to try and get the heat off their backs and let them keep raking in profits unimpeded. Stuff like interest rate caps and banning payday lending, on the other hand, is very effective but impedes profits. The goal of corporate lobbyists is to present solutions (usually faux) that appear genuine but don't impede profits.
- kortilla 4y ago
  Banks don’t conduct payday loans and make very little from the poor. The payday loan industry != banking industry.

bluGill 4y ago

That depends. People are in poverty for many different reasons. I know people in poverty where the root cause is downs syndrome: they mentally don't have the ability to be any more than assistant usher at the movie theater. They can handle most usher tasks, but when there is someone difficult they need the head usher: some 16 year old kid who has been on the job for at least 2 weeks. I know people in poverty because they despite getting straight A's in school they dropped out at 16 and started having kids (I'm not sure if they dropped out before are after the kids started coming, it doesn't matter: both dropping out and having kids were intentional decisions). 10 years latter it finally occurred to them how much their bad life choices has hurt them. There is nothing a coach can do to help the first person, no matter what they will still be in poverty as they are not capable of doing better. The second just needs a bit of help to turn life around - this help will work now, but at 21 this person would have refused all help as they didn't see that they were doing anything wrong in the first place. Most people in poverty are somewhere in the middle of these two. The above is based on real people (though I'm hiding a lot of details for privacy reasons). These are not strawman examples, but they should feel like it. I intentionally picked people who are on the two far ends of the extremes.

sofixa 4y ago
Person 1 doesn't have to be in poverty, in most developed countries there would be disability help/insurance/payments/etc. to help them live a non-impoverished life because they cannot realistically work a job.
- retrac 4y ago
  In most developed countries, disability payments mean living in significant, often crippling poverty. Here in Canada, a single disabled person that is expected to live independently receives about 800 USD per month from the government. Out of that, they're expected to pay all their expenses. Canada is relatively typical as such things go. In France or Germany it's about 1000 USD a month. It's about 900 USD in the United States. It's only some 300 - 500 USD in the UK. Depending on jurisdiction, there may or may not be subsidized housing which can make a big difference; but either way, many are paying market rate for housing. There are also other benefits, etc., that may alter the picture. But the overall picture is very very poor. The Scandinavian countries are the only major exception I can think of, where the disabled living only on a government pension might not actually be in poverty.

ravenstine 4y ago

It's tricky because maybe life coaching doesn't work for most of those in poverty but is good to have for the minority who respond to it.

foobarian 4y ago

You know, life coach helping a group of those in need almost sounds like a shepherd looking out for a flock... now where have I heard this before? I really wish we could take the good parts of organized religion and turn them into regular institutions. In our town the local library has taken on a strong community center role but that's just because the staff there happens to be excellent.

detrites 4y ago

Seems a bit close to "I wonder how effective knowledge is to people who don't have it." The two things required for this program to work are useful information & willing learners. By making it free, the organisers are incentivised to provide the first, and by requiring participation with a coach they're asking for the second. Could your question be more accurately stated as "is the information good?". People stay in bad situations when they don't know how to change and/or they don't want to change. The former is kind of up to those with knowledge, however ultimately nobody can do anything about the latter but those affected themselves.

foxyv 4y ago

Often I find that people in poverty have a great deal of trouble engaging in the external effort necessary to improve their situation. It's nearly impossible to muster the time and energy to fill out applications and forms necessary for assistance when you are barely treading water. Social workers and life coaches are really great when they are able to fill in the gaps. Help people acquire the resources they need and take advantage of the services offered to them that they may not already know about. Even something as simple as filling in a form properly can be life-changing. Not to mention connecting them to resources like housing assistance and debt forgiveness.