4 ms·

Why are the kid's religious beliefs worth mentioning in this article?

rafram 4y ago
The Jews are a people - an ethnicity, more or less - in addition to a religious group. Not all ethnic Jews are religiously Jewish. It’s worth mentioning because the story of how second-generation Jewish immigrants essentially invented the superhero genre, maybe the most American of genres, is… cool. It’s unexpected and interesting. What do you have against telling that story?
- throwaway8440 4y ago
  Ougon Bat/The Golden Bat [1] predates Super-man by 8 years. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bat
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    The article also mentions the book Gladiator, available from standard ebooks https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/philip-wylie/gladiator https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/philip-wylie/gladiator > Gladiator, first published in 1930, tells the story of Hugo Danner, who is given superhuman speed, endurance, strength, and intelligence by his father as an experiment in creating a better human. We follow Hugo throughout his life viewed from his perspective, from childhood, when Hugo first discovers he’s different from others, to adulthood, as Hugo tries to find a positive outlet for his abilities around the time of the first World War. > Gladiator has been made into a 1938 comedy movie, and is thought to be the inspiration for the Superman comic books—though this has not been confirmed.
- rawTruthHurts 4y ago
  Why should have anything against telling that story? Are we ok with this flavour of editorialization now? "XIX Catholic scientist invents pasteurization" - I truly fail to see the "coolness" of it.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    The originator of the Big Bang concept is basically always described as a Catholic priest. The juxtaposition between faith and science, compared to the union of the two, makes people think. This is an interesting part of the story because of the marginalization of Jewish immigrants during that interwar period.
- olivermarks 4y ago
  @rafram I don't think there is any doubt people who are jewish have had an important cultural influence on US media - Robert Crumb, MAD magazine etc - and some of their cultural background plays a part in that...but the whole idea of the 'new world' USA was assimilation in that '30's era, not celebrating ethnicity and past backgrounds. 'Jewish immigrants essentially invented the superhero genre' is a real stretch in this context. There were plenty of other cultural influences, particularly Japanese, in book and comic form that predate and were major influences on the US golden age of comic book explosion in popularity.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    > but the whole idea of the 'new world' USA was assimilation in that '30's era, not celebrating ethnicity and past backgrounds. Jews, along with Blacks, were seen as outsiders to be marginalized by large sections of the dominant US culture at the time. Not as Whites to be assimilated. This is what makes Superman becoming such a large part of pop culture interesting. And if you think the whole idea of the US at that time was about assimilation, not celebrating ethnicity, look up the "German American Bund" (I'd give you a link but have to restart Firefox).
    - davidf18 4y ago
      [dead]
    - olivermarks 4y ago
      'Jews, along with Blacks, were seen as outsiders to be marginalized by large sections of the dominant US culture at the time'. I know this is the popular broad stroke concept of between wars American culture but in reality it was a lot more varied. The 'United States' was anything but united in that era. Huge numbers of blacks where migrating north to Chicago to work in manufacturing, different states had very different relationships with ethnicities and religions. NYC was always a very Jewish city for example. Another example of rejecting assimilation and celebrating other cultures were the German American Bund as you note, with large rallies etc celebrating the German National Socialist movement by German immigrants.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bazoom42 4y ago
It is a (short) biography which means it is about the life and experiences of the artistst, not just their works. The article mention how the Jewish cultural background influenced Superman, eg superman arriving like Moses. But does the article even talk about the religous beliefs of the kids?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
superjew 4y ago
[flagged]
- SunlightEdge 4y ago
  For quite a few Jews (and non-Jews) the term 'goyim' is offensive. https://www.summitdaily.com/news/goyim-is-a-derogatory-word-that-even-offends-a-jew/ https://www.summitdaily.com/news/goyim-is-a-derogatory-word-... Regardless, Superman is a dull character/story
LocalH 4y ago
There are ethnically Jewish people, and religiously Jewish people. The latter can be by choice, but the former cannot by definition. Siegel and Shuster are ethnically Jewish. As such, their Jewish culture would have been part of their influence in creating the Superman.
- cf100clunk 4y ago
  A related thought experiment: in Shuster's case, substitude Jewish for Canadian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster Both work for me, and in the context of how two young men impacted U.S. settler culture, with its profoundly Anglo-Saxon basis, it is entirely valid to identify their cultural, religious, and/or political background.
hn92726819 4y ago
Others have commented on Jewish ethnicity vs religion, but I would also like to add that this article is about events in the 1930s. Shortly after, the Holocaust[1], an event in history particularly known for the death of millions of Jewish people, took place in the 1940s. Adolf Hitler was appointed in 1933 and there was a buildup to the Holocaust and World War 2, so the context that they were Jewish in the 1930s is pretty significant. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
- olivermarks 4y ago
  70 million people died over six years in WWII, the vast majority Russians. 1930's USA has little bearing on European geopolitics and the creation of golden era superman comics. An animated data-driven documentary about war and peace, The Fallen of World War II looks at the human cost of the second World War and sizes up the numbers to other wars in history, including trends in recent conflicts. https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU

The Jews are a people - an ethnicity, more or less - in addition to a religious group. Not all ethnic Jews are religiously Jewish. It’s worth mentioning because the story of how second-generation Jewish immigrants essentially invented the superhero genre, maybe the most American of genres, is… cool. It’s unexpected and interesting. What do you have against telling that story?

throwaway8440 4y ago
Ougon Bat/The Golden Bat [1] predates Super-man by 8 years. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bat
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  The article also mentions the book Gladiator, available from standard ebooks https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/philip-wylie/gladiator https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/philip-wylie/gladiator > Gladiator, first published in 1930, tells the story of Hugo Danner, who is given superhuman speed, endurance, strength, and intelligence by his father as an experiment in creating a better human. We follow Hugo throughout his life viewed from his perspective, from childhood, when Hugo first discovers he’s different from others, to adulthood, as Hugo tries to find a positive outlet for his abilities around the time of the first World War. > Gladiator has been made into a 1938 comedy movie, and is thought to be the inspiration for the Superman comic books—though this has not been confirmed.
rawTruthHurts 4y ago
Why should have anything against telling that story? Are we ok with this flavour of editorialization now? "XIX Catholic scientist invents pasteurization" - I truly fail to see the "coolness" of it.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  The originator of the Big Bang concept is basically always described as a Catholic priest. The juxtaposition between faith and science, compared to the union of the two, makes people think. This is an interesting part of the story because of the marginalization of Jewish immigrants during that interwar period.
olivermarks 4y ago
@rafram I don't think there is any doubt people who are jewish have had an important cultural influence on US media - Robert Crumb, MAD magazine etc - and some of their cultural background plays a part in that...but the whole idea of the 'new world' USA was assimilation in that '30's era, not celebrating ethnicity and past backgrounds. 'Jewish immigrants essentially invented the superhero genre' is a real stretch in this context. There were plenty of other cultural influences, particularly Japanese, in book and comic form that predate and were major influences on the US golden age of comic book explosion in popularity.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  > but the whole idea of the 'new world' USA was assimilation in that '30's era, not celebrating ethnicity and past backgrounds. Jews, along with Blacks, were seen as outsiders to be marginalized by large sections of the dominant US culture at the time. Not as Whites to be assimilated. This is what makes Superman becoming such a large part of pop culture interesting. And if you think the whole idea of the US at that time was about assimilation, not celebrating ethnicity, look up the "German American Bund" (I'd give you a link but have to restart Firefox).
  - davidf18 4y ago
    [dead]
  - olivermarks 4y ago
    'Jews, along with Blacks, were seen as outsiders to be marginalized by large sections of the dominant US culture at the time'. I know this is the popular broad stroke concept of between wars American culture but in reality it was a lot more varied. The 'United States' was anything but united in that era. Huge numbers of blacks where migrating north to Chicago to work in manufacturing, different states had very different relationships with ethnicities and religions. NYC was always a very Jewish city for example. Another example of rejecting assimilation and celebrating other cultures were the German American Bund as you note, with large rallies etc celebrating the German National Socialist movement by German immigrants.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bazoom42 4y ago

It is a (short) biography which means it is about the life and experiences of the artistst, not just their works. The article mention how the Jewish cultural background influenced Superman, eg superman arriving like Moses. But does the article even talk about the religous beliefs of the kids?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

superjew 4y ago

[flagged]

SunlightEdge 4y ago
For quite a few Jews (and non-Jews) the term 'goyim' is offensive. https://www.summitdaily.com/news/goyim-is-a-derogatory-word-that-even-offends-a-jew/ https://www.summitdaily.com/news/goyim-is-a-derogatory-word-... Regardless, Superman is a dull character/story

LocalH 4y ago

There are ethnically Jewish people, and religiously Jewish people. The latter can be by choice, but the former cannot by definition. Siegel and Shuster are ethnically Jewish. As such, their Jewish culture would have been part of their influence in creating the Superman.

cf100clunk 4y ago
A related thought experiment: in Shuster's case, substitude Jewish for Canadian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster Both work for me, and in the context of how two young men impacted U.S. settler culture, with its profoundly Anglo-Saxon basis, it is entirely valid to identify their cultural, religious, and/or political background.

hn92726819 4y ago

Others have commented on Jewish ethnicity vs religion, but I would also like to add that this article is about events in the 1930s. Shortly after, the Holocaust[1], an event in history particularly known for the death of millions of Jewish people, took place in the 1940s. Adolf Hitler was appointed in 1933 and there was a buildup to the Holocaust and World War 2, so the context that they were Jewish in the 1930s is pretty significant. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

olivermarks 4y ago
70 million people died over six years in WWII, the vast majority Russians. 1930's USA has little bearing on European geopolitics and the creation of golden era superman comics. An animated data-driven documentary about war and peace, The Fallen of World War II looks at the human cost of the second World War and sizes up the numbers to other wars in history, including trends in recent conflicts. https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU