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I like how this author's cursory research was so scientific that it fails to consider and control for all the other aristocratic children from those eras that h

I like how this author's cursory research was so scientific that it fails to consider and control for all the other aristocratic children from those eras that his list is from who had tutors, connections, and apprenticeships and failed nevertheless to become "exceptional".

api 4y ago
Typical “rationalist” stuff: a supposedly smart person makes bald faced assertions backed by sophistry. Bonus points if it’s asserting something contrarian. But what do I know. I’m not officially high IQ enough to blindly assert that my personal biases are valid a priori because I’m smart.
- bryananderson 4y ago
  Double bonus points if the “contrarian” thing is the exact opposite of contrarian within the intended audience.
traject_ 4y ago
That could mean it is a necessary but not sufficient condition; I don't think your observation by itself invalidates anything the author said.
- curiousgal 4y ago
  I just typed the same comment before reading this. I totally agree!
barry-cotter 4y ago
The point, one presumes, is to make it as likely as possible that your child will become exceptional if they have the potential to do so. If these things are necessary but not sufficient doing them takes the odds from non-existent to small. More likely it takes them from extremely small to very small.
Atheros 4y ago
He didn't fail to consider that, he just didn't consider that, because he had no reason to consider that, just like he didn't consider the orbit of Pluto or the phases of the moon. If you think he should have considered and controlled for something, say why explicitly.
- jalk 4y ago
  Because the whole thing has a certain survivor bias smell to it.
  - aredox 4y ago
    And even worse bias: "The default for a parent is rather to imitate their peers and outsource the big decisions to bureaucracies." No, dude, parents often have to go to work and don't have the means to hire a private tutor. Most don't have a grandparent around neither.
    - woolion 4y ago
      I assure you, people do. It's certainly not the case for lower-class people who are just scrambling to survive economically, but if you asked around people who are more affluent, they could definitely afford to reduce their workload to better care for their children. One colleague was arguing that the standard school system was very destructive to children and alternative schools were doing a much better job making them able to think. However, she also said she is sending her children to a standard school because of the cost and complexity. In other conversations, she mentioned that her neighbor complained about the noise of their private pool cleaning system, which is still an ongoing problem, or how going skydiving was a great experience. There is a lack of self awareness in how "doing like normal people do" is influential to most people. People work for shit they don't need, and don't really think what is going to bring them happiness.
      - arpa 4y ago
        It's so good that we've got people like you to tell parents how they should live, what they should work for, and, most importantly, how to raise their children. But please lead by example.
curiousgal 4y ago
Well if you consider that then he might have proven that having tutors, connections, and apprenticeships is a necessary but not a sufficient condition then.
jhanschoo 4y ago
Add.: to substantiate, and argue against replies mentioning that this is a sufficient but not necessary condition, my impression is that that was the dominant form education took back then. Over half of Virginia Woolf, Lev Tolstoy, John von Neumann, Blaise Pascal, Alan Turing, Bertrand Russell, René Descartes, Mozart, and Bach were children before standardized testing (and schooling I think?) became widespread. If the form of education we receive today was not widespread or present in their lives, and their dominant form of education did not have any statistically significant benefit in cultivating people to be exceptional, we would still see the same phenomenon that the post author has observed, that exceptional people mostly emerged from the dominant form of education system that they had.
kstenerud 4y ago
It's covered in the last section: "They were gifted children"

api 4y ago

Typical “rationalist” stuff: a supposedly smart person makes bald faced assertions backed by sophistry. Bonus points if it’s asserting something contrarian. But what do I know. I’m not officially high IQ enough to blindly assert that my personal biases are valid a priori because I’m smart.

bryananderson 4y ago
Double bonus points if the “contrarian” thing is the exact opposite of contrarian within the intended audience.

traject_ 4y ago

That could mean it is a necessary but not sufficient condition; I don't think your observation by itself invalidates anything the author said.

curiousgal 4y ago
I just typed the same comment before reading this. I totally agree!

barry-cotter 4y ago

The point, one presumes, is to make it as likely as possible that your child will become exceptional if they have the potential to do so. If these things are necessary but not sufficient doing them takes the odds from non-existent to small. More likely it takes them from extremely small to very small.

Atheros 4y ago

He didn't fail to consider that, he just didn't consider that, because he had no reason to consider that, just like he didn't consider the orbit of Pluto or the phases of the moon. If you think he should have considered and controlled for something, say why explicitly.

jalk 4y ago
Because the whole thing has a certain survivor bias smell to it.
- aredox 4y ago
  And even worse bias: "The default for a parent is rather to imitate their peers and outsource the big decisions to bureaucracies." No, dude, parents often have to go to work and don't have the means to hire a private tutor. Most don't have a grandparent around neither.
  - woolion 4y ago
    I assure you, people do. It's certainly not the case for lower-class people who are just scrambling to survive economically, but if you asked around people who are more affluent, they could definitely afford to reduce their workload to better care for their children. One colleague was arguing that the standard school system was very destructive to children and alternative schools were doing a much better job making them able to think. However, she also said she is sending her children to a standard school because of the cost and complexity. In other conversations, she mentioned that her neighbor complained about the noise of their private pool cleaning system, which is still an ongoing problem, or how going skydiving was a great experience. There is a lack of self awareness in how "doing like normal people do" is influential to most people. People work for shit they don't need, and don't really think what is going to bring them happiness.
    - arpa 4y ago
      It's so good that we've got people like you to tell parents how they should live, what they should work for, and, most importantly, how to raise their children. But please lead by example.

curiousgal 4y ago

Well if you consider that then he might have proven that having tutors, connections, and apprenticeships is a necessary but not a sufficient condition then.

jhanschoo 4y ago

Add.: to substantiate, and argue against replies mentioning that this is a sufficient but not necessary condition, my impression is that that was the dominant form education took back then. Over half of Virginia Woolf, Lev Tolstoy, John von Neumann, Blaise Pascal, Alan Turing, Bertrand Russell, René Descartes, Mozart, and Bach were children before standardized testing (and schooling I think?) became widespread. If the form of education we receive today was not widespread or present in their lives, and their dominant form of education did not have any statistically significant benefit in cultivating people to be exceptional, we would still see the same phenomenon that the post author has observed, that exceptional people mostly emerged from the dominant form of education system that they had.

kstenerud 4y ago

It's covered in the last section: "They were gifted children"