3 ms·

On cell phone plans that still charge per minute of talk, how is this going to work? Will those carriers make domestic violence hotline calls be free and not co

On cell phone plans that still charge per minute of talk, how is this going to work? Will those carriers make domestic violence hotline calls be free and not count against your total minutes? If not, then won't the resulting discrepancy between the amount of the bill and the number of minutes for each individual call on it make it obvious what happened?

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
Do those plans even exist anymore?
- nicbou 4y ago
  They're common in Germany, since calls and SMS are rarely used. Mobile data for WhatsApp is far more useful.
  - dewey 4y ago
    I wouldn't say it's common in Germany. I just checked some providers and most of them just have one line saying "Phone and SMS flatrate to all German networks" in their plans. The only differentiation between plans these days is how much data is included.
  - culturestate 4y ago
    You have to really be pinching pennies to get one of those plans. Even on Aldi Talk, you'd only pay €3 more per month for unlimited calls and SMS than you would for a data-only plan. https://www.alditalk.de/produktinformationsblatt https://www.alditalk.de/produktinformationsblatt
    - nicbou 4y ago
      With Vodafone you can swap fewer minutes for more data. It's fairly sensible with even the 10-20€ plans. Besides, it's important to remember that not everyone is a tech worker. One man's penny pinching is another's necessity.
- klyrs 4y ago
  In Canada you can save $5 by downgrading to plans that would be offensive anywhere else in the early 00s...
Lucent 4y ago
Domestic abuser: "I tallied only 748 minutes of calls across these 9 pages, and after subtracting the 500 included minutes in your plan, we were only charged an additional $12.28 instead of the expected $12.40. Explain yourself!"
- bitwize 4y ago
  If you think domestic abusers won't go to these lengths, you must not know any victims.
  - dtgriscom 4y ago
    I'm guessing some would, some would if they knew to, many won't.
    - krageon 4y ago
      The most problematic ones, where this is most important, will definitely do so. A seriously unhinged domestic abuser is almost identical to an extremely scary stalker in demeanor, except they also live in your house and have access to an incredible amount of information about you.
- hn92726819 4y ago
  Or... The abuser searches "why is my phone bill higher than my total minutes <carrier>" and the results are "Here are the 1 things that count against on your minutes, but don't show up on your bill: domestic violence calls" Or they call the carrier and ask why the numbers don't add up. The carrier can't say "idk but still pay us". It's more complex than just saying that nobody ekll notice a few cents
advisedwang 4y ago
They haven't decided details like this. The actual notice of proposed rulemaking [1] explicitly asks for feedback on this: > 117. We also seek comment on whether we should establish exceptions...? How often are toll calls or usage-fee-inducing mobile calls and text messages made to hotlines? > 145. Are there any potential inconsistencies between the rules that we might adopt to ensure the privacy of calls and text messages to hotlines and other Commission rules or state regulations? For example, would omitting toll calls that incur separate charges from consumers’ bills conflict with our truth-in-billing rules? Are there any other potential inconsistencies? Should we explicitly resolve them and, if so, how? What role might disclaimers issued by service providers play? It also sounds like the sought some industry comment already and had any "insurmountable" objection: > 112. ...We note that there is no discussion of such concerns in the record in response to the Notice of Inquiry ... Indeed, neither of the two trade associations representing substantially different segments of what would be covered providers and/or providers of wireline voice service raise insurmountable issues relating to selectively omitting calls and text messages from call and text logs. I also suspect most domestic volence hotlines are toll free. [1] https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-23-9A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-23-9A1.pdf
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > I also suspect most domestic volence hotlines are toll free. Don't toll free calls placed from cell phones count against minutes just like normal calls do?
  - Doxin 4y ago
    Maybe they shouldn't.
rgmerk 4y ago
The obvious response to this is to make calls to DV hotline services free. The cost to carriers would be negligible.

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago

Do those plans even exist anymore?

nicbou 4y ago
They're common in Germany, since calls and SMS are rarely used. Mobile data for WhatsApp is far more useful.
- dewey 4y ago
  I wouldn't say it's common in Germany. I just checked some providers and most of them just have one line saying "Phone and SMS flatrate to all German networks" in their plans. The only differentiation between plans these days is how much data is included.
- culturestate 4y ago
  You have to really be pinching pennies to get one of those plans. Even on Aldi Talk, you'd only pay €3 more per month for unlimited calls and SMS than you would for a data-only plan. https://www.alditalk.de/produktinformationsblatt https://www.alditalk.de/produktinformationsblatt
  - nicbou 4y ago
    With Vodafone you can swap fewer minutes for more data. It's fairly sensible with even the 10-20€ plans. Besides, it's important to remember that not everyone is a tech worker. One man's penny pinching is another's necessity.
klyrs 4y ago
In Canada you can save $5 by downgrading to plans that would be offensive anywhere else in the early 00s...

Lucent 4y ago

Domestic abuser: "I tallied only 748 minutes of calls across these 9 pages, and after subtracting the 500 included minutes in your plan, we were only charged an additional $12.28 instead of the expected $12.40. Explain yourself!"

bitwize 4y ago
If you think domestic abusers won't go to these lengths, you must not know any victims.
- dtgriscom 4y ago
  I'm guessing some would, some would if they knew to, many won't.
  - krageon 4y ago
    The most problematic ones, where this is most important, will definitely do so. A seriously unhinged domestic abuser is almost identical to an extremely scary stalker in demeanor, except they also live in your house and have access to an incredible amount of information about you.
hn92726819 4y ago
Or... The abuser searches "why is my phone bill higher than my total minutes <carrier>" and the results are "Here are the 1 things that count against on your minutes, but don't show up on your bill: domestic violence calls" Or they call the carrier and ask why the numbers don't add up. The carrier can't say "idk but still pay us". It's more complex than just saying that nobody ekll notice a few cents

advisedwang 4y ago

They haven't decided details like this. The actual notice of proposed rulemaking [1] explicitly asks for feedback on this: > 117. We also seek comment on whether we should establish exceptions...? How often are toll calls or usage-fee-inducing mobile calls and text messages made to hotlines? > 145. Are there any potential inconsistencies between the rules that we might adopt to ensure the privacy of calls and text messages to hotlines and other Commission rules or state regulations? For example, would omitting toll calls that incur separate charges from consumers’ bills conflict with our truth-in-billing rules? Are there any other potential inconsistencies? Should we explicitly resolve them and, if so, how? What role might disclaimers issued by service providers play? It also sounds like the sought some industry comment already and had any "insurmountable" objection: > 112. ...We note that there is no discussion of such concerns in the record in response to the Notice of Inquiry ... Indeed, neither of the two trade associations representing substantially different segments of what would be covered providers and/or providers of wireline voice service raise insurmountable issues relating to selectively omitting calls and text messages from call and text logs. I also suspect most domestic volence hotlines are toll free. [1] https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-23-9A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-23-9A1.pdf

josephcsible 4y ago
> I also suspect most domestic volence hotlines are toll free. Don't toll free calls placed from cell phones count against minutes just like normal calls do?
- Doxin 4y ago
  Maybe they shouldn't.

rgmerk 4y ago

The obvious response to this is to make calls to DV hotline services free. The cost to carriers would be negligible.