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> amazed with hub gears I've never seen hub gears on light or even medium weight hybrid/city ALU bikes. Which suggests there is a problem with hub gears. Maybe

by 323 4y ago

> amazed with hub gears I've never seen hub gears on light or even medium weight hybrid/city ALU bikes. Which suggests there is a problem with hub gears. Maybe they are heavier, or more expensive, or harder to maintain, but they are not popular.

bloat 4y ago
They need very little maintenance. But they are very expensive. e.g. https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff/ https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff/
- 323 4y ago
  But you still don't see them on very pricey bikes ($15k+). So they are very expensive, without being premium, which is a weird place to be.
  - bloat 4y ago
    I've mostly heard of them being used for people doing giant international tours where they want something that just will not break. Seems like a very niche market though!
  - wl 4y ago
    The $15k+ bikes are race bikes, which are probably never going to have internally geared hubs because they're too heavy and add too much drivetrain loss. Rohloff hubs are fairly common on high end ($5k+) bikepacking and touring bikes.
  - hannasanarion 4y ago
    Bikes in the $15k plus range are probably targeted at professional sport cyclists, who need to adhere to UCI equipment regulations, which include the requirement for a chain-derailleur drive. If you want to know what's premium for everyday utility cycling, look at the ebike space, where people are shelling out thousands for bicycles just to use them a vehicles. Hub gears are not dominant, but are very well represented on price points over $2k.
    - nradov 4y ago
      There are also triathlon bikes in the $15k plus range which don't comply with UCI rules. But the efficiency loss makes hub gears useless for that market.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  You picked about the most expensive option, there’s quite a few that are fine for commuter bikes, but cost substantially less. The Shimano Alfine series for example. But except for the Rohloff, they all have a smaller gear range than a derailleur, so there are tradeoffs.
jhot 4y ago
They are heavy and don't shift under high load. Maintenance is minimal, though. Great for a commuter but not practical for road racing or mountain biking.
- Steltek 4y ago
  They don't shift under any load, as far as I'm aware. Maybe Rohloff's are different but IME, you need to stop pedaling entirely to safely shift without damaging anything.
  - analog31 4y ago
    Certainly true for Sturmey-Archer. If you try to upshift under load, you'll feel the cable resisting. If you downshift under load, it'll wait to shift until you back off on the pedals just a bit. Compensating for both things becomes a habit. Likewise, remembering not to shift at a stoplight becomes a habit with derailleurs. You reach a point where you begin to think like your bike. Given that I'm a casual cyclist on a non-sporty bike, I just live with the slight awkwardness when I'm halfway up a hill and realize that I chose the wrong gear.
wl 4y ago
I have such a bike. The downsides: * It's heavier than a derailleur/cassette * More drivetrain losses * It's expensive. Upsides: * Maintenance is replacing the oil about once a year. * You can shift from a stop. * Easier to adjust.
analog31 4y ago
They're expensive, and ones with as many gears as a derailleur system are hideously expensive. Folks worry that they won't have the gears that they need for hills. Also, I think the bike makers are timid about marketing them -- an entire line of bikes might have exactly one with a hub gear, on a bike with "city" styling. I've got a couple of bikes with old Sturmey Archer 3-speed gear hubs, and they're utterly bulletproof. I've had each one open exactly once, when I got it and wanted to make sure it was in good condition before putting it on a wheel. Plus I was curious. The other thing in my opinion, though I love hub gears, modern derailleur systems with a zillion gears aren't all that bad. Especially with indexed shifting, which we've now had for decades. They're exposed to the weather, but most people don't ride in bad weather. Since you mention hybrid/city, that's my category. I use my bike for commuting to work, shopping, and weekend recreational rides. I'm in no way fast nor competitive, so the weight and efficiency issues are secondary for me. But also, the 3-speed is a sweet spot where its efficiency actually rivals derailleurs.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  Weight is important to me with that usage because bike thefts in the area around my office means I want to carry my bike up stairs...
  - analog31 4y ago
    Similar situation for my kids, both in college. Both have built up single-speeds. They can lock up their bikes on campus and enjoy "security by obscurity," but at their apartments, they have to bring their bikes in or hide them well.

by 323 4y ago

bloat 4y ago

They need very little maintenance. But they are very expensive. e.g. https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff/ https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff/

323 4y ago
But you still don't see them on very pricey bikes ($15k+). So they are very expensive, without being premium, which is a weird place to be.
- bloat 4y ago
  I've mostly heard of them being used for people doing giant international tours where they want something that just will not break. Seems like a very niche market though!
- wl 4y ago
  The $15k+ bikes are race bikes, which are probably never going to have internally geared hubs because they're too heavy and add too much drivetrain loss. Rohloff hubs are fairly common on high end ($5k+) bikepacking and touring bikes.
- hannasanarion 4y ago
  Bikes in the $15k plus range are probably targeted at professional sport cyclists, who need to adhere to UCI equipment regulations, which include the requirement for a chain-derailleur drive. If you want to know what's premium for everyday utility cycling, look at the ebike space, where people are shelling out thousands for bicycles just to use them a vehicles. Hub gears are not dominant, but are very well represented on price points over $2k.
  - nradov 4y ago
    There are also triathlon bikes in the $15k plus range which don't comply with UCI rules. But the efficiency loss makes hub gears useless for that market.
Xylakant 4y ago
You picked about the most expensive option, there’s quite a few that are fine for commuter bikes, but cost substantially less. The Shimano Alfine series for example. But except for the Rohloff, they all have a smaller gear range than a derailleur, so there are tradeoffs.

jhot 4y ago

They are heavy and don't shift under high load. Maintenance is minimal, though. Great for a commuter but not practical for road racing or mountain biking.

Steltek 4y ago
They don't shift under any load, as far as I'm aware. Maybe Rohloff's are different but IME, you need to stop pedaling entirely to safely shift without damaging anything.
- analog31 4y ago
  Certainly true for Sturmey-Archer. If you try to upshift under load, you'll feel the cable resisting. If you downshift under load, it'll wait to shift until you back off on the pedals just a bit. Compensating for both things becomes a habit. Likewise, remembering not to shift at a stoplight becomes a habit with derailleurs. You reach a point where you begin to think like your bike. Given that I'm a casual cyclist on a non-sporty bike, I just live with the slight awkwardness when I'm halfway up a hill and realize that I chose the wrong gear.

wl 4y ago

I have such a bike. The downsides: * It's heavier than a derailleur/cassette * More drivetrain losses * It's expensive. Upsides: * Maintenance is replacing the oil about once a year. * You can shift from a stop. * Easier to adjust.

analog31 4y ago

They're expensive, and ones with as many gears as a derailleur system are hideously expensive. Folks worry that they won't have the gears that they need for hills. Also, I think the bike makers are timid about marketing them -- an entire line of bikes might have exactly one with a hub gear, on a bike with "city" styling. I've got a couple of bikes with old Sturmey Archer 3-speed gear hubs, and they're utterly bulletproof. I've had each one open exactly once, when I got it and wanted to make sure it was in good condition before putting it on a wheel. Plus I was curious. The other thing in my opinion, though I love hub gears, modern derailleur systems with a zillion gears aren't all that bad. Especially with indexed shifting, which we've now had for decades. They're exposed to the weather, but most people don't ride in bad weather. Since you mention hybrid/city, that's my category. I use my bike for commuting to work, shopping, and weekend recreational rides. I'm in no way fast nor competitive, so the weight and efficiency issues are secondary for me. But also, the 3-speed is a sweet spot where its efficiency actually rivals derailleurs.

aidenn0 4y ago
Weight is important to me with that usage because bike thefts in the area around my office means I want to carry my bike up stairs...
- analog31 4y ago
  Similar situation for my kids, both in college. Both have built up single-speeds. They can lock up their bikes on campus and enjoy "security by obscurity," but at their apartments, they have to bring their bikes in or hide them well.