12 ms·
I'm a non-native English speaker. What's wrong with screeching?
by aflag 4y ago
I'm a non-native English speaker. What's wrong with screeching?
- ComputerGuru 4y agoNothing except if people are predisposed to think it’s associated with women then that’s how they’ll read it. This tells you more about the censors’ minds being in the gutter than anything else.
- DanHulton 4y ago"Screeching" in english (at least North American english) is typically a gendered derogative. You generally wouldn't say a man was "screeching", not unless you also wanted to imply he was effeminate. By avoiding the word, you avoid insinuating the target's gender is part of the issue, and/or avoid insinuating that the target is effeminate when they "should not" be, i.e. you avoid homophobia.
- jasonladuke0311 4y ago> avoid insinuating that the target is effeminate when they "should not" be, i.e. you avoid homophobia. You’re implying that homosexuals are effeminate?
- DanHulton 4y agoI'm talking about stereotypes here. The _stereotype_ is that gay men are effeminate. I'm sure we both understand that gay men are all unique and have an infinite range of behaviour and action, but think about how many sitcoms have a "guy's guy" doing something traditionally coded feminine, and his buddies all start to get creeped out about him, to audience laughter. Go back far enough, and they'll probably outright even say, "Dude. Gay." (Early South Park, for an example, was rife with this.)
- tptacek 4y agoIs it? I think you have to kind of want it to be gendered.
- ilyt 4y agoScreeching is usually associated with high pitched sounds and that is associated with women, to the point men making loud high pitched noises usually gets called "screamed like little girl". I guess babies also count for screeching.
- wutbrodo 4y agoSure, but at that point you're just saying that a neutral descriptive term is more commonly-applicable to one gender. Is the word "sobbing" or the word "weeping" derogatory? Visibly-emotional crying is also associated with women, and isn't a stereotypically "manly" thing to do.
- ilyt 4y agoI'm saying it could be interpreted that way by extremely uncharitable individuals that try to make their existence out of being offended and fixing "social injustices", instead of recognizing that in vast majority of cases no actual person was even offended, author didn't mean anything close to offending anyone, and the word was just used to make writing more colorful.
- wutbrodo 4y agoRight, sure. I was less arguing with you than highlighting the intellectual bankruptcy of this movement.
- HypnoDrone 4y agowomen can have deep voices too. dont let your own bias shape your responses like this.
- tptacek 4y agoI mostly associate screeching with owls and monkeys, neither of which are coded feminine. To be clear (and conciliatory): I see how you connect the dots here. I just think you have to have your antennae extended extra high to pick this signal up, high enough that you'll need to be careful walking under overpasses and stuff.
- Nicksil 4y ago>"Screeching" in english [...] is typically a gendered [...]. It's not. >You generally wouldn't say a man was "screeching". Sure you would. I've never seen it posed any other way or with any other intent.
- Beldin 4y agoScreeching typically concerns loud, high-pitched, emotional screaming (my connotation, backed up by a quick google). I am under the impression that, on average, men's voices are lower than women's voices. Hence some connotation. Doesn't mean men cannot screech, though. Just that there is some reason for making that connection, so at least some folks will make that connection.
- gramie 4y agoI would associate "screeching" with women, just as I would associate "bellowing" with men. I fail to understand why using these words is bad, though.
- TaylorAlexander 4y agoIt ends up being used to dismiss women levying legitimate criticism. It basically gets used to enforce patriarchy. In practice the opposite is not really true of “bellowing” to the same extent. But even then, gendered insults are falling out of favor in general.
- nonethewiser 4y agoBut don’t you realize that YOU are the one arguing that women are inherently screechier?
- lotsofpulp 4y agoEither I am completely out of touch, or this comment is nonsense. A screech is a high pitched sound, nothing more unless otherwise indicated.
- version_five 4y agoIt's nonsense and presumably was made up on the spot. Unfortunately it's impossible to tell anymore if the people that write these things actually believe them or are just trolling.
- dang 4y agoPlease don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. more at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34854743 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34854743
- mc32 4y agoScreeching (loud piercing sounds) is what eagles some other large birds do. It's also applied to tires which lose their grip on the road during a burnout or the like. Looks like the character “Screech” will have to adopt a new (nick)-name.
- dboat 4y agoNo, the person you replied to was correct (for my region and presumably his). My knowledge of the term mirrors his and I'm kind of disappointed to see so many people asserting there is no common, derogatory, gendered use of the term just because they are unfamiliar with it. I see a lot of people with no knowledge or experience with this common usage. That's fine, but it's arrogant to assume things you don't know are nonsense.
- loeg 4y ago> I'm kind of disappointed to see so many people asserting there is no common, derogatory, gendered use of the term just because they are unfamiliar with it. Maybe worth reconsidering if your understanding of the term is truly "common." > That's fine, but it's arrogant to assume things you don't know are nonsense. It also seems pretty arrogant to assert you know better than everyone else.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- renewiltord 4y agoHaha, this is the classic example of answering a question which was merely a rhetorical whip. I love watching this stuff in action. I agree wholesale with you. Screeching is most definitely more commonly used for women. That doesn't make it a bad word to use. I mean, you won't catch me dead with these bowdlerized versions. The prose is atrocious and the motives for the changes are dubious. But screeching is high pitched and when it's used for people is used mostly for women. I'm not going to pretend it's not. That's a comical rewriting of what is true just because you don't like some other rewriting.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- nonethewiser 4y ago[flagged]
- gardenhedge 4y agononsense
- Sporktacular 4y agoDefine 'man'.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoCheckmate
- Sporktacular 4y agoIf you're being sarcastic, it's the suitably frivolous response to being woke-scolded by someone not aware enough to use gender carefully.
- kortilla 4y agoIt’s homophobic to assume men being effeminate makes them gay.
- nonethewiser 4y agoIt’s off the mark, sure, but you can think being effeminate makes someone gay without being afraid of gay people.
- klipt 4y agoSince it ultimately comes down to policing straight men and telling them they're not allowed to be effeminate, I'd say it's more misandrist than homophobic.
- justinator 4y ago> effeminate makes someone gay Guess Tom of Finland didn't get that memo.
- tsol 4y agoI don't think homophobic literally means 'afraid of gay people'. In common use it is more often synonymous with 'gay hating'
- nonethewiser 4y agoThis sounds like someone projecting their anxiety And self consciousness.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- NDizzle 4y ago> You generally wouldn't say a man was "screeching", not unless you also wanted to imply he was effeminate. You didn't watch Saved by the Bell?!
- mensetmanusman 4y agoIt sounds like you have access to some objective truth on language that we see missing.
- jquery 4y ago>"Screeching" in english (at least North American english) is typically a gendered derogative. When HN can't tolerate such an obviously true statement such as this, yet plenty of dog-whistles supporting homophobia and racism and transphobia in this thread stay upvoted, it tells me I probably shouldn't be spending time here anymore. I don't know if I've changed or the community has changed. Probably a bit of both. Maybe it's time to grow up and move on.
- trafficante 4y agoUntil I saw your comment, I interpreted the downvoting as people taking issue with the astonishing lack of self awareness and bizarrely neurotic hypothetical purity spiral at the end. IE: Describing a straight male as shrill might make passersby assume he’s abnormal and abnormal men are viewed as homosexual and it would be really awful if you accidentally did a homophobia so stop using the word shrill.
- jquery 4y agoI’d grant that benefit of the doubt if the rest of the thread wasn’t so illuminating on how HN feels about “woke” and how apparently a modicum of sensitivity towards historically disadvantaged minorities is the end of civilization.
- josephg 4y agoI heard a new banger quote from John Stuart Mill the other day: > He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. There's an easy test to see if you understand someone's position in a disagreement. Just summarize their position back to them. They'll tell you if you got it right. > a modicum of sensitivity towards historically disadvantaged minorities is the end of civilization. This absolutely isn't my position. I don't think you understand why people disagree with you here. [The full quote by Mill, if anyone is curious: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/66643-he-who-knows-only-his-own-side-of-the-case https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/66643-he-who-knows-only-his... ]
- thepasswordis 4y agoAs somebody with a 2 year old son, I can assure you that screeching is certainly not a gendered thing.
- mindcrime 4y agoInterestingly, while I get what you're saying - and can agree that "screeching" probably is at least slightly gendered when applied to humans - in my experience I've more often encountered "screeching" applied to non-human entities, like birds. Enough so that I would not automatically make any connection to the use of the word "screeching" as specifically being a gendered derogative aimed at women (although context would dictate a lot about the interpretation of any specific case of course).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- omginternets 4y agoFor most English speakers, nothing. I am as puzzled as you are.
- marcellus23 4y agoProbably a similar thing as with the word "shrill" — it's a word that's mostly applied only to women, so some people interpret the word itself as being sexist (apparently notwithstanding the fact that females have biologically higher voices).
- nonethewiser 4y agoThat is hilarious. Such a weak move.
- NDizzle 4y ago[flagged]
- vineyardmike 4y agoIn addition to what others said, it’s just not a common saying in modern English. If you described someone annoying as screeching, older people likely would understand but most would find it strange language for today.
- _heimdall 4y agoAt 34, I can't imagine that someone 10 or 15 years younger than me would find it strange for me to say something about a car's brakes screeching Also, what should us older people call a screech owl?
- vineyardmike 4y agoScreeching car tires is common, but the book replaced a screeching woman with an annoying woman. Sorry for the confusion, language is context dependent, and the context the book used screeching is strange in modern English.
- dang 4y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849710.