6 ms·

Cataloguing classical music has always been a headache, even for experienced librarians. There are multiple recordings, some conductors record the same piece mu

Cataloguing classical music has always been a headache, even for experienced librarians. There are multiple recordings, some conductors record the same piece multiple times, with same or different orchestras and soloists, arrangements for different instruments (maybe in a different key), parts of a piece known under alternative names (Bach's Air for a G-string is just one movement from his orchestral suite, and he never called it that anyway). Old composers often borrowed bits or rearranged whole pieces (Mozart did his version of Handel's Messiah), and various historical ways to name and number pieces (concerto #1 in B from opus 6).

boppo1 4y ago
I've wanted to 'get into' classical but this had made it difficult. I just settle with whatever the local station plays and forget the name thereafter.
- notefaker 4y ago
  Something I do love about classical recordings is how differently some conductors and orchestras might interpret a specific piece. An example: The third movement of Debussy's Nocturnes (titled "Sirènes") is most often performed with a women's chorus. My favorite recording of this piece was performed with children's choir instead. The difference in vocal quality is marked. The children's pure vocal tone feels far more eerie and siren-esque than the harsher vibrato and warble of a female chorus. Ironically, I have no idea who conducted/recorded this version of the piece.
  - boppo1 4y ago
    Do you have a link so I can listen to it?
    - kashunstva 4y ago
      I recommend this to everyone will listen: Christian Tetzlaff’s most recent recording of the Bach Sonatas and Partitas for unaccompanied violin. It was from around 2017 or so. Just superb in every way. His interpretations have a real improvisatory character that fits with what we know about Bach’s own performance practice. They are recorded on a modern instrument but his articulations sound like Baroque equipment.
  - janc_ 4y ago
    Covers or re-recordings in pop music often sound completely different from the original too, of course...
- vjulian 4y ago
  Do get into classical music. As others have noted, yes interpretations can vary, but don’t worry about that initially. It’s relatively subtle. All you need to keep track of ultimately, initially, is the name of the piece and the composer.
- quacked 4y ago
  If you want to send me an email I'd love to give you some starter suggestions for becoming a listener.
- mattficke 4y ago
  Decent starting place: Osmo Vanska. Recently retired conductor of the Minnesota Symphony, they recorded all of the Beethoven symphonies and most of Mahler’s, they’re excellent and easily found on streaming platforms. Some good contemporary soloists: Alexandre Tharaud, Stephen Hough, Peter Hill, Jenny Lin, Isabelle Faust.
  - boppo1 4y ago
    Thanks!
    - mattficke 4y ago
      If you want to go down the rabbit whole a little further, the classical music writer/blogger Charles Downey has been doing annual “best of” lists of classical recordings since 2004. I like these lists in particular because for the most part they’re new recordings and help me find active performers who tour that I might want to see live. https://ionarts.blogspot.com/search/label/Best%20of%20the%20Year?m=0 https://ionarts.blogspot.com/search/label/Best%20of%20the%20...
- mellosouls 4y ago
  Check out Building A Library (and related programmes) on the BBC's wonderful classical station Radio 3: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tmtz/clips https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tmtz/clips Record Review: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrtty/episodes/player https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrtty/episodes/player More to explore here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3cjHdZlXwL7W41XGB77X3S0/composers-a-to-z https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3cjHdZlXwL7W41XGB7...
  - djtango 4y ago
    This is a fantastic recommendation. I'm pretty sure I discovered Carlos Kleiber through Building a Library. Listening to his Beethoven Symphonies was like almost listening to different music, especially when comparing against say Karajan...
- jdfellow 4y ago
  If you have Spotify premium give https://getconcertmaster.com/ https://getconcertmaster.com/ a try. It's a frontend for Spotify with additional cataloging features for classical recordings.
powersnail 4y ago
Tangentially, name eliding is also quite difficult for classical pieces, as there are so many parts that eliding is almost always needed, but no standard order, so it's impossible to know which segment is the most informational. There's the composer's name, the piece's name, the opus number, the piece's alias, the movement's number, the movement's name, the performer, and sometimes, the transcriber's name if it is transcribed. Elide the end, and you might get: - Sonata No.[...].mp3 - Sonata No.[...].mp3 - Sonata No.[...].mp3 Elide the beginning, and you might get: - [...] by Julia Fischer.mp3 - [...] by Julia Fischer.mp3 - [...] by Julia Fischer.mp3 Elide the middle, and: - Anne-Soph[...]minor.mp3 - Anne-Soph[...]minor.mp3 - Anne-Soph[...]minor.mp3 I really hope that music apps would provide a choice for multi-lined, non-elided presentation of piece titles.
- andybak 4y ago
  The problem would be not much worse than with popular music where you try to stuff artist+album+track into just the filename.
  - powersnail 4y ago
    The difference is that pop music don't need to be titled with as many parts as a typical classical piece. Artist + title is enough as an identifier. In most cases, Artist is a single name (of a singer or a band), and title is usually succinct---not always, but usually. At most, there's an parenthesized .feat or .cover.
    - pasc1878 4y ago
      I have several bands who do release the same song several times. EG live albums, some do new versions and now without the limitation of record or CD length multiple takes of the same song in the same album
- kashunstva 4y ago
  You have pointed to a source of enormous frustration and one which suggests the developers haven’t attempted to understand features of music that existed and evolved for 500 years of Western music and exist still today. The elision itself is a problem; but so is the solution that involves horizontal scrolling of the information. It usually proceeds in _n_ character blocks and there’s a nearly zero chance the user will have the patience for the eventual completed reveal. Which movement of the sonata is this? I’m not waiting for the scrolling marquee. Table views are where the elision problem really surfaces.
unsignedchar 4y ago
There are also multiple issuings of the same recording, sometimes from multiple remasters, or from different new labels for historic recordings (like Furtwanger’s pre-1945 recordings). Often those have significant differences due to different types or generations of noise-reduction techniques used.
someguydave 4y ago
Yes, and the other problem with classical music is that if you split your movements into separate files hardly any reasonable music player for iOS will keep them together in order.

boppo1 4y ago

I've wanted to 'get into' classical but this had made it difficult. I just settle with whatever the local station plays and forget the name thereafter.

notefaker 4y ago
Something I do love about classical recordings is how differently some conductors and orchestras might interpret a specific piece. An example: The third movement of Debussy's Nocturnes (titled "Sirènes") is most often performed with a women's chorus. My favorite recording of this piece was performed with children's choir instead. The difference in vocal quality is marked. The children's pure vocal tone feels far more eerie and siren-esque than the harsher vibrato and warble of a female chorus. Ironically, I have no idea who conducted/recorded this version of the piece.
- boppo1 4y ago
  Do you have a link so I can listen to it?
  - kashunstva 4y ago
    I recommend this to everyone will listen: Christian Tetzlaff’s most recent recording of the Bach Sonatas and Partitas for unaccompanied violin. It was from around 2017 or so. Just superb in every way. His interpretations have a real improvisatory character that fits with what we know about Bach’s own performance practice. They are recorded on a modern instrument but his articulations sound like Baroque equipment.
- janc_ 4y ago
  Covers or re-recordings in pop music often sound completely different from the original too, of course...
vjulian 4y ago
Do get into classical music. As others have noted, yes interpretations can vary, but don’t worry about that initially. It’s relatively subtle. All you need to keep track of ultimately, initially, is the name of the piece and the composer.
quacked 4y ago
If you want to send me an email I'd love to give you some starter suggestions for becoming a listener.
mattficke 4y ago
Decent starting place: Osmo Vanska. Recently retired conductor of the Minnesota Symphony, they recorded all of the Beethoven symphonies and most of Mahler’s, they’re excellent and easily found on streaming platforms. Some good contemporary soloists: Alexandre Tharaud, Stephen Hough, Peter Hill, Jenny Lin, Isabelle Faust.
- boppo1 4y ago
  Thanks!
  - mattficke 4y ago
    If you want to go down the rabbit whole a little further, the classical music writer/blogger Charles Downey has been doing annual “best of” lists of classical recordings since 2004. I like these lists in particular because for the most part they’re new recordings and help me find active performers who tour that I might want to see live. https://ionarts.blogspot.com/search/label/Best%20of%20the%20Year?m=0 https://ionarts.blogspot.com/search/label/Best%20of%20the%20...
mellosouls 4y ago
Check out Building A Library (and related programmes) on the BBC's wonderful classical station Radio 3: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tmtz/clips https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tmtz/clips Record Review: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrtty/episodes/player https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrtty/episodes/player More to explore here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3cjHdZlXwL7W41XGB77X3S0/composers-a-to-z https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3cjHdZlXwL7W41XGB7...
- djtango 4y ago
  This is a fantastic recommendation. I'm pretty sure I discovered Carlos Kleiber through Building a Library. Listening to his Beethoven Symphonies was like almost listening to different music, especially when comparing against say Karajan...
jdfellow 4y ago
If you have Spotify premium give https://getconcertmaster.com/ https://getconcertmaster.com/ a try. It's a frontend for Spotify with additional cataloging features for classical recordings.

powersnail 4y ago

Tangentially, name eliding is also quite difficult for classical pieces, as there are so many parts that eliding is almost always needed, but no standard order, so it's impossible to know which segment is the most informational. There's the composer's name, the piece's name, the opus number, the piece's alias, the movement's number, the movement's name, the performer, and sometimes, the transcriber's name if it is transcribed. Elide the end, and you might get: - Sonata No.[...].mp3 - Sonata No.[...].mp3 - Sonata No.[...].mp3 Elide the beginning, and you might get: - [...] by Julia Fischer.mp3 - [...] by Julia Fischer.mp3 - [...] by Julia Fischer.mp3 Elide the middle, and: - Anne-Soph[...]minor.mp3 - Anne-Soph[...]minor.mp3 - Anne-Soph[...]minor.mp3 I really hope that music apps would provide a choice for multi-lined, non-elided presentation of piece titles.

andybak 4y ago
The problem would be not much worse than with popular music where you try to stuff artist+album+track into just the filename.
- powersnail 4y ago
  The difference is that pop music don't need to be titled with as many parts as a typical classical piece. Artist + title is enough as an identifier. In most cases, Artist is a single name (of a singer or a band), and title is usually succinct---not always, but usually. At most, there's an parenthesized .feat or .cover.
  - pasc1878 4y ago
    I have several bands who do release the same song several times. EG live albums, some do new versions and now without the limitation of record or CD length multiple takes of the same song in the same album
kashunstva 4y ago
You have pointed to a source of enormous frustration and one which suggests the developers haven’t attempted to understand features of music that existed and evolved for 500 years of Western music and exist still today. The elision itself is a problem; but so is the solution that involves horizontal scrolling of the information. It usually proceeds in _n_ character blocks and there’s a nearly zero chance the user will have the patience for the eventual completed reveal. Which movement of the sonata is this? I’m not waiting for the scrolling marquee. Table views are where the elision problem really surfaces.

unsignedchar 4y ago

There are also multiple issuings of the same recording, sometimes from multiple remasters, or from different new labels for historic recordings (like Furtwanger’s pre-1945 recordings). Often those have significant differences due to different types or generations of noise-reduction techniques used.

someguydave 4y ago

Yes, and the other problem with classical music is that if you split your movements into separate files hardly any reasonable music player for iOS will keep them together in order.