5 ms·

Bird leaves S.F., blaming ‘the most onerous regulations’ in the world

44 points by lando2319 4y ago

santoshalper 4y ago
Bird is a plague on cities. Good riddance.
- uberman 4y ago
  I consult for a company that is based in a city with scooters. My view is that they are essentially industrial garbage. People leave them on the sidewalk blocking pedestrians at best. At worst they end up in the canal or in the middle of the road. When they do get used it is often on the sidewalk. If the owners and users respected these things it would be a different story but at the rush for market dominance noone cares a lick about the hardware or where it ends up. In my opinion they are a plague and I'm glad I dont have to deal with the accumulating detritus. Someone does though and I dont envy the people who have to fish these things out of the canal. I have to imagine one leaking in the river undoes any environmental gain from the rest combined.
  - ytdytvhxgydvhh 4y ago
    There’s a guy on Reddit who does magnet fishing in Baltimore’s Inner Harbor. Seems like he finds mostly guns and electric scooters: https://old.reddit.com/user/TopS3cr3t/submitted/ https://old.reddit.com/user/TopS3cr3t/submitted/
andrewfromx 4y ago
I always thought S.F. would have made a great "city of the future" and ban cars and go full in on birds. Like https://culdesac.com/ https://culdesac.com/ (wow, when you look at the pictures from culdesac it looks like Sesame Street!)
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  Notably without children. Just adults and their annoying dogs. If it doesn’t have schools, sports, and recreation for kids, it’s a dystopia.
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  God no, invest in building out the trains and public transit. Scooters are just toys. Get a public transit like the NYC subways and it will change the city forever.
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    Last mile problem exists even in NYC. Also, the geography and weather of SF isn't the same as NYC so you can't just cut-and-paste a solution from one to the other like a block of code from StackOverflow.
    - qbasic_forever 4y ago
      Last mile problem? There's a subway station almost every 3-4 blocks in the entire city. Nowhere did I say it's a cut and paste solution. I said invest in the trains they have already instead of dumping money on scooter startups.
      - fallingknife 4y ago
        Not in the entire city, only Manhattan (and not even all of it really). And it works because Manhattan has 4x the population density of SF, which is yet another problem that SF prevents from being solved.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  SF is fully committed to being the "city of the past".
garbagecoder 4y ago
In the world? My god, I own a business in Costa Rica. Don’t even try me.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  I was at a gun shop in Costa Rica, about three minutes into a conversation with the owners, I realized they had a lot more patience than I do.
Zak 4y ago
I've noticed a significant drop in the availability of scooters where I live (a major European city) over the past year or so, including Bird exiting the market. Prices have increased substantially, and high-use subscription plans have disappeared. I wonder how much of that is a change in regulations, and how much is the end of early price competition that was never sustainable.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  It's all the second thing. The economics never made sense. It doesn't have one damned thing to do with "onerous regulations". It has to do with bird losing $300 million on revenues of $70 million.
  - oceanplexian 4y ago
    I don’t know.. it’s a little bit of both. The scooters are super convenient when you can park it anywhere, the whole idea of micro-mobility actually works and is more convenient than taking an Uber or a Lyft. It’s also the most fun you can have with $3 in a city. In theory it cuts down on unnecessary car traffic, and you don’t have to get sweaty on a bicycle. The problem is, cities started forcing by the scooters to add arcane geofencing rules requiring you to park it or pick it up far from your origin or destination. That sort of ruins the whole point of the scooters.
    - 908B64B197 4y ago
      I remember not being able to drop one at a park. A pedestrian-friendly space with a huge bike rack where I could get the scooter in a location where it wouldn't obstruct the sidewalk. But some bureaucrat decided parks were off limits. Had to drop it on the sidewalk next to said park.
- xenospn 4y ago
  It was never a viable business model. This is just a byproduct of VCs looking to create a bag and offload it to a bigger fool. The scooters themselves are just a random product mutation that will not survive.
WhatsName 4y ago
It seems in the US regulations seem to be spun as something negative by all major news outlets. For me this reads like sensible government policy at work. If the fines of cleanup eat into profits and are not just a minuscule cost of doing business, they set it just right instead of plain forbid it outright.
- fallingknife 4y ago
  Sensible policy that driving a scooter on the sidewalk gets you 5x the fine that driving a car on the sidewalk would? Holding the companies responsible for users of rental scooters actions but not users of rental cars is sensible policy?
  - spenczar5 4y ago
    That kind of whataboutism just convinces me that the fines for driving cars on the sidewalk should be higher, yes.
  - jcater 4y ago
    Is driving of rental cars on sidewalks really that big of a problem there to make that comparison?
  - jrm4 4y ago
    Yes. Both of these are sensible because our spaces and regulations are already better set up for cars, and the scooter companies are deliberately introducing technology that they know (or should know) increase unexpected danger. Thus, the costs should fall on them. The details aren't perfect, but the idea is generally good.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    I have a feeling if you as an individual started driving on the sidewalks multiple times receiving multiple fines that the state would quickly remove your privilege to drive and if you continued, would imprison you.
- pySSK 4y ago
  Yep, weird, especially when these same companies require more sensible behaviour from users in other jurisdiction in response to laws.
voz_ 4y ago
[flagged]
- tjr225 4y ago
  [dead]
- ajhurliman 4y ago
  The arguments that justify fines for blocking sidewalks are all too happy to ignore the sidewalks being blocked by trash and tents, it’s internally inconsistent.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    Why is it inconsistent? Are you going to get thousands of dollars from that homeless person in their tent? No, you'll fine them, they won't be able to pay, then you'll throw them in jail for violating the court order and by the time you're done you've spent 10 or 20 thousand dollars.
    - ajhurliman 4y ago
      The law shouldn’t be enforced based on one’s financial status.
- sfgoodforonce 4y ago
  I hate SF for mostly the same reasons as you, but they’re right about scooters.
jaclaz 4y ago
Once said that the "too high fines" sounds like an excuse, I am not sure to understand the logic of the fines (i.e. the attributing them at least partially to the company). When you rent a car, the driver/renter pays all fines during the rent period, except maybe those related to the car itself not being fit for street use. Why is this different for these scooters?
- bagels 4y ago
  Are they referring to the fines from littering their scooters all over town?
  - jaclaz 4y ago
    I could understand somehow those (though there must be anyway some method to make the user "responsible" of the bad parking). No idea how it would be achievable it is entirely possible that the user parked the thing correctly but a kid passing by moved it later. Many years ago in Paris (France) there were normal (actually terribly heavy) bikes for rent that had dedicated stands, you unlocked them with a card or similar, and you had to return them and lock them to another stand, otherwise you kept paying the rent (it was far from perfect, but at least created not this kind of problem). But I was talking more about the US$ 500 one for driving on the sidewalk: >And scooting on a San Francisco sidewalk instead of in a bike lane or road can earn a fine of $500, even if there’s no bike lane available. That fine is split between the scooter company and the scooter rider. That one should be all on the rider, shouldn't it?
- roughly 4y ago
  The driver of a rented car pays things like speeding tickets, yes, but if they abandon the car in the middle of the road, the rental company is expected to retrieve it and will be fined if they don't. Same deal here.
- kube-system 4y ago
  The most obvious difference is that scooters companies typically do not provide a place to park their vehicles between rentals, whereas all car rentals do... even Zipcar.
roughly 4y ago
There’s no way to profitably run a company like Bird without foisting the externalities on someone else. Their model is literally to dump a bunch of electric scooters on the side of the road with QR codes on them and just hope for the best. Of course they’re going to get fined when their property is left blocking driveways, of course they’re going to be expected to clean up the piles of scooters that get thrown in the bay, of course their scooters are going to get stolen. Yes, all of that is ruinously expensive to deal with - it’s not a viable business plan. It’s not “onerous regulation,” it’s holding the company accountable for the costs of its business model.
- jasmer 4y ago
  There are places in the world where citizens have high levels of concientiousness. Obviously there's a threshold problem in most of urban USA. There's sufficient pedestrian concientousness maybe in Salt Lake City or some small New England city. Definitely in Japan. Probably most Swiss communities, but beyond that there's just too many sketchy people. It only takes 1 in 100.
- pyb 4y ago
  Not to mention the extra costs to the healthcare system. These things are not safe!
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    In SF, _what_ healthcare system? Wouldn't surprise me if some HMO is bankrolling Bird and waiting for those sweet, profitable trauma cases.
    - htag 4y ago
      How does an HMO make money from trauma cases? My understanding is a member of the HMO seeking medical treatment will cost the HMO money, and their only source of revenue is insurance premiums.
    - danans 4y ago
      The business model of health insurance it's generally about minimizing the amount of avoidable medical care dispensed, not maximizing it.
bluescrn 4y ago
'in the world'? Electric scooters are still outright banned on public roads/pavements in the UK, outside of limited government trials (which appear to have been set up to fail, to keep them banned)
seydor 4y ago
decent amount of puns
badrequest 4y ago
Anecdotally, nobody likes these scooters and I can't imagine any normal person who isn't financially invested in their success would care when they leave. They are a very dangerous and gimmicky mode of transportation in a nation where we could all use to walk much more than we do.
- boc 4y ago
  I loved them when they first arrived- cut my walking commute into downtown from 20 minutes to about 4 minutes, plus they are super fun to rip down hills and fast since you can lane split through traffic. I think of it like skiing- sure there’s a lot of potential risk but it’s a super enjoyable of getting around. Bird was the first scooter I ever rented when they launched in SF and I loved it. It was so much fun waiting at stoplights with other scooter riders next to you chatting and racing together to make the next light. Then the city threw all the birds in trucks one night and took away the fun. For a website that often complains about how mundane modern life has become, it’s ironic to see so much hate directed at a fun, novel way of moving around the city.
  - 8ytecoder 4y ago
    It still exists for you- just buy one. People have been using “hoverboards” before bird and they’ll continue to do so. Bird wanted to profit but not take responsibility. They were completely reckless in 2018 and were very easy on their customers riding on sidewalk at full speed and not even providing a way to securely lock it. Then when the regulations came down, after the city saw how reckless they were being used, it’s going to be harsh, duh. If they were thoughtful or even took responsibility to correct some behavior they could have even sold this as transit for the poor and made the city pay them for the privilege of providing them with an option that public transit can’t match. They’d have come up with stations for them to store and retrieve. They’d have strictly banned users taking it to the sidewalk or unsafe use.
    - boc 4y ago
      Point to point transit is way different from riding to a bar and taking a Lyft home. Having my own scooter means lugging it indoors. It’s a hardware storage issue, really. I think e-bikes that dock in specific places will eventually be the end state. Everyone can ride a bike and people don’t seem to care about bike racks on the sidewalk.
skeeter2020 4y ago
>> another innovative company, this one focused on the crucial task of getting people out of their cars and onto other modes of transportation as climate changes worsens and our streets feel like one huge traffic jam. Oh please; scooters don't get people out of their cars and they're essentially treated like short-life disposable goods. They're a convenient alternative for short-distance trips, like zipping through a busy downtown core, probably on a sidewalk, through pedestrians at too high a speed and with no signaling or safetly equipment. I don't like much about SF, but would love to import whatever brought about forcing out Bird to my city.
- fallingknife 4y ago
  > Oh please; scooters don't get people out of their cars > They're a convenient alternative for short-distance trips
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
jrm4 4y ago
I am 100% in favor of more regulation when it comes to transportation in cities. Solutions like Uber, scooters etc strike me as great ideas; but also somewhat inevitable, and would have benefitted from a growth process other than "all the Silicon Valley VC money fueling everything." (I still maintain that a movement to enshrine the idea that these scooters left around where someone lives fall under the legal category of "mislaid property" and anyone finding one as such gets to keep it and modify as they wish.)
- roughly 4y ago
  > (I still maintain that a movement to enshrine the idea that these scooters left around where someone lives fall under the legal category of "mislaid property" and anyone finding one as such gets to keep it and modify as they wish.) The positive spin on these companies is they've been pretty solid VC-funded programs for providing transportation to the homeless population and spare parts to hobby hackers.
nzoschke 4y ago
SF resident here. The on-demand scooter rentals model needs more thought. The scooters are often broken, not charged, under powered or unsafe (unless you bring your own helmet) to get around. Ppl leave them blocking sidewalks and etc. Best thing I ever did was buy my own ebike. Battery powered personal vehicles are the answer, and ownership pays off quickly compared to Ubers and parking and rentals. I hope the city bike rollout keeps going. Keep adding bikes and hubs everywhere and lower the price of rentals. Having stations to park and charge and pick up bikes everywhere is better than the free for all of Bird imho.
- throw__away7391 4y ago
  I much prefer my own scooter, however the rideshare model has a single absolutely massive advantage over private ownership: once you get where you're going you don't need to worry about it getting stolen. I have the best lock I could find and glued an Apple AirTag to the inside, but still whenever I go to dinner on my scooter I spend 5 minutes trying to find a place to park it and convince the restaurant staff to give me a seat where I can see it (although some very nice people will sometimes let me fold it up and store it inside the restaurant behind the front desk or something), then spend the entire time worried about it getting jacked while I'm eating. I tend to visit only restaurants with sidewalk dining as a result, and I often take a car instead for anything like shopping where monitoring it isn't possible. Wide availability of secure parking infrastructure (or maybe even law enforcement attempting to do something about theft in the first place) would go a long way toward making private e-vehicles viable transport IMO.
dagmx 4y ago
Sounds like Bird just doesn’t want to deal with the downsides of their business model. In most cities where I’ve seen them, they’re usually just abandoned by people with reckless abandon. Granted, some of that was probably not the users but other people… I’d see them in the Bay, thrown into peoples hedges, cluttering up sidewalks. While I know they serve a use for many people, they also were indistinguishable from garbage. If their business model depends on other people (not just their customers) taking care of their product and the cities/individuals to clean up after them, then their business model is clearly flawed to begin with.
throw__away7391 4y ago
Even in so called "walkable" cities in the US, the car is king. Cities who have bulldozed entire neighborhoods to save drivers 5 minutes of waiting in traffic cannot fathom anything rising above the slightest accommodation for any vehicle that weighs less than 1000kg.
solarman5000 4y ago
I also left California because of the regulations and hidden taxes everywhere. They made it Very difficult for a hardware startup company.. If you don't have angel investors, don't bother opening up in Cali, go to a more friendly state

44 points by lando2319 4y ago

santoshalper 4y ago

Bird is a plague on cities. Good riddance.

uberman 4y ago
I consult for a company that is based in a city with scooters. My view is that they are essentially industrial garbage. People leave them on the sidewalk blocking pedestrians at best. At worst they end up in the canal or in the middle of the road. When they do get used it is often on the sidewalk. If the owners and users respected these things it would be a different story but at the rush for market dominance noone cares a lick about the hardware or where it ends up. In my opinion they are a plague and I'm glad I dont have to deal with the accumulating detritus. Someone does though and I dont envy the people who have to fish these things out of the canal. I have to imagine one leaking in the river undoes any environmental gain from the rest combined.
- ytdytvhxgydvhh 4y ago
  There’s a guy on Reddit who does magnet fishing in Baltimore’s Inner Harbor. Seems like he finds mostly guns and electric scooters: https://old.reddit.com/user/TopS3cr3t/submitted/ https://old.reddit.com/user/TopS3cr3t/submitted/

andrewfromx 4y ago

I always thought S.F. would have made a great "city of the future" and ban cars and go full in on birds. Like https://culdesac.com/ https://culdesac.com/ (wow, when you look at the pictures from culdesac it looks like Sesame Street!)

geraldwhen 4y ago
Notably without children. Just adults and their annoying dogs. If it doesn’t have schools, sports, and recreation for kids, it’s a dystopia.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
God no, invest in building out the trains and public transit. Scooters are just toys. Get a public transit like the NYC subways and it will change the city forever.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  Last mile problem exists even in NYC. Also, the geography and weather of SF isn't the same as NYC so you can't just cut-and-paste a solution from one to the other like a block of code from StackOverflow.
  - qbasic_forever 4y ago
    Last mile problem? There's a subway station almost every 3-4 blocks in the entire city. Nowhere did I say it's a cut and paste solution. I said invest in the trains they have already instead of dumping money on scooter startups.
    - fallingknife 4y ago
      Not in the entire city, only Manhattan (and not even all of it really). And it works because Manhattan has 4x the population density of SF, which is yet another problem that SF prevents from being solved.
BurningFrog 4y ago
SF is fully committed to being the "city of the past".

garbagecoder 4y ago

In the world? My god, I own a business in Costa Rica. Don’t even try me.

SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
I was at a gun shop in Costa Rica, about three minutes into a conversation with the owners, I realized they had a lot more patience than I do.

Zak 4y ago

I've noticed a significant drop in the availability of scooters where I live (a major European city) over the past year or so, including Bird exiting the market. Prices have increased substantially, and high-use subscription plans have disappeared. I wonder how much of that is a change in regulations, and how much is the end of early price competition that was never sustainable.

jeffbee 4y ago
It's all the second thing. The economics never made sense. It doesn't have one damned thing to do with "onerous regulations". It has to do with bird losing $300 million on revenues of $70 million.
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  I don’t know.. it’s a little bit of both. The scooters are super convenient when you can park it anywhere, the whole idea of micro-mobility actually works and is more convenient than taking an Uber or a Lyft. It’s also the most fun you can have with $3 in a city. In theory it cuts down on unnecessary car traffic, and you don’t have to get sweaty on a bicycle. The problem is, cities started forcing by the scooters to add arcane geofencing rules requiring you to park it or pick it up far from your origin or destination. That sort of ruins the whole point of the scooters.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    I remember not being able to drop one at a park. A pedestrian-friendly space with a huge bike rack where I could get the scooter in a location where it wouldn't obstruct the sidewalk. But some bureaucrat decided parks were off limits. Had to drop it on the sidewalk next to said park.
xenospn 4y ago
It was never a viable business model. This is just a byproduct of VCs looking to create a bag and offload it to a bigger fool. The scooters themselves are just a random product mutation that will not survive.

WhatsName 4y ago

It seems in the US regulations seem to be spun as something negative by all major news outlets. For me this reads like sensible government policy at work. If the fines of cleanup eat into profits and are not just a minuscule cost of doing business, they set it just right instead of plain forbid it outright.

fallingknife 4y ago
Sensible policy that driving a scooter on the sidewalk gets you 5x the fine that driving a car on the sidewalk would? Holding the companies responsible for users of rental scooters actions but not users of rental cars is sensible policy?
- spenczar5 4y ago
  That kind of whataboutism just convinces me that the fines for driving cars on the sidewalk should be higher, yes.
- jcater 4y ago
  Is driving of rental cars on sidewalks really that big of a problem there to make that comparison?
- jrm4 4y ago
  Yes. Both of these are sensible because our spaces and regulations are already better set up for cars, and the scooter companies are deliberately introducing technology that they know (or should know) increase unexpected danger. Thus, the costs should fall on them. The details aren't perfect, but the idea is generally good.
- pixl97 4y ago
  I have a feeling if you as an individual started driving on the sidewalks multiple times receiving multiple fines that the state would quickly remove your privilege to drive and if you continued, would imprison you.
pySSK 4y ago
Yep, weird, especially when these same companies require more sensible behaviour from users in other jurisdiction in response to laws.

voz_ 4y ago

[flagged]

tjr225 4y ago
[dead]
ajhurliman 4y ago
The arguments that justify fines for blocking sidewalks are all too happy to ignore the sidewalks being blocked by trash and tents, it’s internally inconsistent.
- pixl97 4y ago
  Why is it inconsistent? Are you going to get thousands of dollars from that homeless person in their tent? No, you'll fine them, they won't be able to pay, then you'll throw them in jail for violating the court order and by the time you're done you've spent 10 or 20 thousand dollars.
  - ajhurliman 4y ago
    The law shouldn’t be enforced based on one’s financial status.
sfgoodforonce 4y ago
I hate SF for mostly the same reasons as you, but they’re right about scooters.

jaclaz 4y ago

Once said that the "too high fines" sounds like an excuse, I am not sure to understand the logic of the fines (i.e. the attributing them at least partially to the company). When you rent a car, the driver/renter pays all fines during the rent period, except maybe those related to the car itself not being fit for street use. Why is this different for these scooters?

bagels 4y ago
Are they referring to the fines from littering their scooters all over town?
- jaclaz 4y ago
  I could understand somehow those (though there must be anyway some method to make the user "responsible" of the bad parking). No idea how it would be achievable it is entirely possible that the user parked the thing correctly but a kid passing by moved it later. Many years ago in Paris (France) there were normal (actually terribly heavy) bikes for rent that had dedicated stands, you unlocked them with a card or similar, and you had to return them and lock them to another stand, otherwise you kept paying the rent (it was far from perfect, but at least created not this kind of problem). But I was talking more about the US$ 500 one for driving on the sidewalk: >And scooting on a San Francisco sidewalk instead of in a bike lane or road can earn a fine of $500, even if there’s no bike lane available. That fine is split between the scooter company and the scooter rider. That one should be all on the rider, shouldn't it?
roughly 4y ago
The driver of a rented car pays things like speeding tickets, yes, but if they abandon the car in the middle of the road, the rental company is expected to retrieve it and will be fined if they don't. Same deal here.
kube-system 4y ago
The most obvious difference is that scooters companies typically do not provide a place to park their vehicles between rentals, whereas all car rentals do... even Zipcar.

roughly 4y ago

There’s no way to profitably run a company like Bird without foisting the externalities on someone else. Their model is literally to dump a bunch of electric scooters on the side of the road with QR codes on them and just hope for the best. Of course they’re going to get fined when their property is left blocking driveways, of course they’re going to be expected to clean up the piles of scooters that get thrown in the bay, of course their scooters are going to get stolen. Yes, all of that is ruinously expensive to deal with - it’s not a viable business plan. It’s not “onerous regulation,” it’s holding the company accountable for the costs of its business model.

jasmer 4y ago
There are places in the world where citizens have high levels of concientiousness. Obviously there's a threshold problem in most of urban USA. There's sufficient pedestrian concientousness maybe in Salt Lake City or some small New England city. Definitely in Japan. Probably most Swiss communities, but beyond that there's just too many sketchy people. It only takes 1 in 100.
pyb 4y ago
Not to mention the extra costs to the healthcare system. These things are not safe!
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  In SF, _what_ healthcare system? Wouldn't surprise me if some HMO is bankrolling Bird and waiting for those sweet, profitable trauma cases.
  - htag 4y ago
    How does an HMO make money from trauma cases? My understanding is a member of the HMO seeking medical treatment will cost the HMO money, and their only source of revenue is insurance premiums.
  - danans 4y ago
    The business model of health insurance it's generally about minimizing the amount of avoidable medical care dispensed, not maximizing it.

bluescrn 4y ago

'in the world'? Electric scooters are still outright banned on public roads/pavements in the UK, outside of limited government trials (which appear to have been set up to fail, to keep them banned)

seydor 4y ago

decent amount of puns

badrequest 4y ago

Anecdotally, nobody likes these scooters and I can't imagine any normal person who isn't financially invested in their success would care when they leave. They are a very dangerous and gimmicky mode of transportation in a nation where we could all use to walk much more than we do.

boc 4y ago
I loved them when they first arrived- cut my walking commute into downtown from 20 minutes to about 4 minutes, plus they are super fun to rip down hills and fast since you can lane split through traffic. I think of it like skiing- sure there’s a lot of potential risk but it’s a super enjoyable of getting around. Bird was the first scooter I ever rented when they launched in SF and I loved it. It was so much fun waiting at stoplights with other scooter riders next to you chatting and racing together to make the next light. Then the city threw all the birds in trucks one night and took away the fun. For a website that often complains about how mundane modern life has become, it’s ironic to see so much hate directed at a fun, novel way of moving around the city.
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  It still exists for you- just buy one. People have been using “hoverboards” before bird and they’ll continue to do so. Bird wanted to profit but not take responsibility. They were completely reckless in 2018 and were very easy on their customers riding on sidewalk at full speed and not even providing a way to securely lock it. Then when the regulations came down, after the city saw how reckless they were being used, it’s going to be harsh, duh. If they were thoughtful or even took responsibility to correct some behavior they could have even sold this as transit for the poor and made the city pay them for the privilege of providing them with an option that public transit can’t match. They’d have come up with stations for them to store and retrieve. They’d have strictly banned users taking it to the sidewalk or unsafe use.
  - boc 4y ago
    Point to point transit is way different from riding to a bar and taking a Lyft home. Having my own scooter means lugging it indoors. It’s a hardware storage issue, really. I think e-bikes that dock in specific places will eventually be the end state. Everyone can ride a bike and people don’t seem to care about bike racks on the sidewalk.

skeeter2020 4y ago

>> another innovative company, this one focused on the crucial task of getting people out of their cars and onto other modes of transportation as climate changes worsens and our streets feel like one huge traffic jam. Oh please; scooters don't get people out of their cars and they're essentially treated like short-life disposable goods. They're a convenient alternative for short-distance trips, like zipping through a busy downtown core, probably on a sidewalk, through pedestrians at too high a speed and with no signaling or safetly equipment. I don't like much about SF, but would love to import whatever brought about forcing out Bird to my city.

fallingknife 4y ago
> Oh please; scooters don't get people out of their cars > They're a convenient alternative for short-distance trips
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

jrm4 4y ago

I am 100% in favor of more regulation when it comes to transportation in cities. Solutions like Uber, scooters etc strike me as great ideas; but also somewhat inevitable, and would have benefitted from a growth process other than "all the Silicon Valley VC money fueling everything." (I still maintain that a movement to enshrine the idea that these scooters left around where someone lives fall under the legal category of "mislaid property" and anyone finding one as such gets to keep it and modify as they wish.)

roughly 4y ago
> (I still maintain that a movement to enshrine the idea that these scooters left around where someone lives fall under the legal category of "mislaid property" and anyone finding one as such gets to keep it and modify as they wish.) The positive spin on these companies is they've been pretty solid VC-funded programs for providing transportation to the homeless population and spare parts to hobby hackers.

nzoschke 4y ago

SF resident here. The on-demand scooter rentals model needs more thought. The scooters are often broken, not charged, under powered or unsafe (unless you bring your own helmet) to get around. Ppl leave them blocking sidewalks and etc. Best thing I ever did was buy my own ebike. Battery powered personal vehicles are the answer, and ownership pays off quickly compared to Ubers and parking and rentals. I hope the city bike rollout keeps going. Keep adding bikes and hubs everywhere and lower the price of rentals. Having stations to park and charge and pick up bikes everywhere is better than the free for all of Bird imho.

throw__away7391 4y ago
I much prefer my own scooter, however the rideshare model has a single absolutely massive advantage over private ownership: once you get where you're going you don't need to worry about it getting stolen. I have the best lock I could find and glued an Apple AirTag to the inside, but still whenever I go to dinner on my scooter I spend 5 minutes trying to find a place to park it and convince the restaurant staff to give me a seat where I can see it (although some very nice people will sometimes let me fold it up and store it inside the restaurant behind the front desk or something), then spend the entire time worried about it getting jacked while I'm eating. I tend to visit only restaurants with sidewalk dining as a result, and I often take a car instead for anything like shopping where monitoring it isn't possible. Wide availability of secure parking infrastructure (or maybe even law enforcement attempting to do something about theft in the first place) would go a long way toward making private e-vehicles viable transport IMO.

dagmx 4y ago

Sounds like Bird just doesn’t want to deal with the downsides of their business model. In most cities where I’ve seen them, they’re usually just abandoned by people with reckless abandon. Granted, some of that was probably not the users but other people… I’d see them in the Bay, thrown into peoples hedges, cluttering up sidewalks. While I know they serve a use for many people, they also were indistinguishable from garbage. If their business model depends on other people (not just their customers) taking care of their product and the cities/individuals to clean up after them, then their business model is clearly flawed to begin with.

throw__away7391 4y ago

Even in so called "walkable" cities in the US, the car is king. Cities who have bulldozed entire neighborhoods to save drivers 5 minutes of waiting in traffic cannot fathom anything rising above the slightest accommodation for any vehicle that weighs less than 1000kg.

solarman5000 4y ago

I also left California because of the regulations and hidden taxes everywhere. They made it Very difficult for a hardware startup company.. If you don't have angel investors, don't bother opening up in Cali, go to a more friendly state