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I tried hard to make Sweet Home work for me. It solves the quick and dirty use case but I really wanted something where I could measure out every dimension in t
by guidoism 4y ago
I tried hard to make Sweet Home work for me. It solves the quick and dirty use case but I really wanted something where I could measure out every dimension in the house with a laser measurer, describe the shape and the relationships between the objects and let the computer do the rest. In a program like Sweet Home, and every other floor plan program out there if you make one change (like updating the measurement of the wall thickness you have to manually and carefully move everything else around.
I ended up throwing together something quick and dirty with Org Mode tables and Metapost: https://github.com/guidoism/wildwood/blob/main/house.org https://github.com/guidoism/wildwood/blob/main/house.org
It works pretty well and the output is pretty.
- unwind 4y agoThat sounds fantastic, and it mirrors my (brief & shallow) experience with such tools. It quickly becomes too much of a drawing project, and too little of a data-capture/tabulating one. But please please please show the resulting picture somewhere, it was incredibly frustrating to read through your page's wonderful build-up towards the goal, and then not get to see the rendered result? Poor me.
- guidoism 4y agohttps://github.com/guidoism/wildwood/releases/download/20230217/house.pdf https://github.com/guidoism/wildwood/releases/download/20230...
- voisin 4y agoI wonder if there is a good answer for quick mapping using an iPhone’s LiDAR Scanner?
- guidoism 4y agoThis is definitely the eventual answer. I can't imagine in ten years we will be hand measuring walls.
- necovek 4y agoOh, yes we will. Unless you want to move all the furniture out of place (even in-built one), all the heavy stuff blocking edges and corners from view etc. Good luck with that bathroom sink or kitchen counter-top. And angles and inequalities (eg. top edge vs bottom edge), that gets funny fast.
- etrautmann 4y agoisn't that all of the more reason to use a high-resolution 3d LIDAR point cloud - to get the exactly geometry? I hear your point about moving furniture, but you kind of need to do that anyway to get a measuring tape into corners.
- mjhagen 4y agoCouldn't ML be utilised to recognise furniture and remove it from the model?
- frosted-flakes 4y agoLaser measuring tools avoid the need for a physical tape these days.
- necovek 4y agoMostly! But then you need to measure "free standing" wall (when measuring the opening is not an option), and without someone to hold something flat at the other end for the laser to bounce off, measuring tape still wins. Which is not to say that laser is not extremely useful: I generally use both.
- necovek 4y agoMeasuring tape is pretty thin and can get behind or just under a bunch of things: or a laser can when tape can't. Basically, my point is that we'll need all three, and workflow won't be trivial to combine them.
- CSMastermind 4y ago
- s1mon 4y agoI found this youtube channel[0] has some pretty good walkthroughs (quite literally) of using various iOS apps to scan architectural spaces. The short answer is that the LIDAR and iOS APIs are remarkably powerful, but not 100% accurate. There are techniques to improve accuracy (e.g. using a gimbal), but ultimately you'll need to do tape or laser measurements and modify the models that these tools can build, or just model it yourself with the scan as a reference. MagicPlan[1] and PolyCam[2] seem to be the most focused on building a schematic level building model which could be imported into other tools if needed. They both now take advantage of the Roomplan API[3] which Apple introduced in iOS and iPadOS 16[4]. MagicPlan has been out for ages[4] and originally just worked off the camera and the accelerometer to help build a floor plan. Polycam also supports photogrammetry[5] where you just take a bunch of photos and it builds a 3D model by interpreting what shape the object could be (I don't know if this is also used in architecture scale things, but it could be interesting for ID projects). Both MagicPlan and PolyCam allow you to tweak dimensions of rooms, doors, windows, furniture, etc. in a somewhat parametric way. This is where you likely want a laser measuring device to quickly update the dimensions. These can be used through Bluetooth to enter the measurements directly into the floorplans in MagicPlan[6]. I didn't try this, but if I was doing this all the time, it seems like it would be essential. Matterport is starting to get into mobile[7] (phone, tablet) capture, but they've built their business up on their branded hardware and cloud platform. They provide floorplans as a service[8] and everything adds up, but from what I see in the real estate market, they are ubiquitous. And if you want to spend a bunch more for very pro level app for documenting things like crime scenes, shipbuilding, infrastructure, etc. there's Dot3D.[9] [0] https://www.youtube.com/@LiDAR3D https://www.youtube.com/@LiDAR3D [1] https://www.magicplan.app https://www.magicplan.app [2] https://poly.cam https://poly.cam [3] https://developer.apple.com/augmented-reality/roomplan/ https://developer.apple.com/augmented-reality/roomplan/ [4] https://9to5mac.com/2022/06/15/ios-16-roomplan-api-3d-floor-plans/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/06/15/ios-16-roomplan-api-3d-floor-... [5] https://www.magicplan.app/about https://www.magicplan.app/about [6] https://help.magicplan.app/laser-distance-meters#laser-tutorial-video https://help.magicplan.app/laser-distance-meters#laser-tutor... [7] https://matterport.com/3d-camera-app https://matterport.com/3d-camera-app [8] https://buy.matterport.com/ https://buy.matterport.com/ [9] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZxCDKTizs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZxCDKTizs
- jjeaff 4y agoThere are several products out there that can create 2d, 3d renderings of a living space using the iphone lidar scanner. Not sure it they keep dimensions.
- Eisenstein 4y agoI have been playing with RTAB-Map and a Kinect, and exporting to various formats and it works reasonably well, but is still far from user-friendly. They also have a iOS version if you want to play around with it.
- philote 4y agoOoh, I just found my old Kinect yesterday. I'll have to play around with this.
- Eisenstein 4y agoDownload RTABMap and the OpenNI drivers and export as ply and use CloudCompare and MeshLab to play with the pointclouds. I am not a fan of the mesh function in RTAB-Map and there are some buggy options which insta-crash it on export. Meshlab is also super-buggy and has a terrible GUI. Have fun! EDIT - PLY not PCL
- ebspelman 4y agoI work on an app called Polycam, and we have an automated Room / floorplan capture mode. We actually announced some updates to it earlier this week: https://twitter.com/Polycam3D/status/1623730477637959680 https://twitter.com/Polycam3D/status/1623730477637959680
- etrautmann 4y agothanks, this is super cool. Does it have decent geometry export options?
- ebspelman 4y agoYep! For meshes we've got GLTF, OBJ, FBX, STL, and DAE. And then you can also export the 2D floorplan as SVG and DXF.
- AdamTReineke 4y agoLove Polycam! My wife just got the newest iPhone this fall before our remodel started and I was stoked to capture our house before the remodel and cannot wait to get the after all scanned in for comparison. https://poly.cam/capture/11B48FCD-E6A5-4ED7-9C9D-BF5DFE605798 https://poly.cam/capture/11B48FCD-E6A5-4ED7-9C9D-BF5DFE60579...
- shaunkoh 4y agoI love the app! The interior designer and property agent who saw me using it were pretty blown away. One thing I struggle with though is making sure that the capture is robust enough before I move on. I usually only really know that something is off when the capture is done already. Can I “touch up” an existing capture by doing another local scan of a problematic area?
- ebspelman 4y agoYou can - there's an 'Extend' button for LiDAR captures, but it can be a little touch-and-go sometimes. Definitely an area for us to work on more!
- _RenderMan_ 4y agoI have an app for creating large scale, drift free scans using iPhone: https://imagespace.app https://imagespace.app
- aaplok 4y agoWhat I ended up doing when I was in a similar situation is manually edit the XML(sh3d files are XML) with proper measurements and coordinates after first doing a rough sketch on the GUI. I haven't used that tool for a while, but I think that it includes a table with all the items (walls, etc.) where you can enter the measurements. Ultimately I think of sweethome3d as a sweet spot between paint and a full-blown CAD program. Nowhere as powerful as the latter but so much better than the former. Also my daughter had a moment when she preferred sweethome3d over Minecraft et al. as a building game.
- teknopaul 4y ago+1 on the sweetspot. I never mastered a proper CAD tool. Sweet home 3D was amazing at helping plan the furniture build and layout of an empty 40m2 living space. I have been living in that space and benefiting from the simplicity SH3D for ten years now with no need for a change.
- bitL 4y agoThere was a startup in SF that tried to do that using iPhone video feeds as one walked around the room, but they went belly up recently and whatever tech they created was siphoned to another platform startup.
- mikepurvis 4y agoThis has been a source of frustration for me too, as I've occasionally tried out these kinds of packages. Particularly having used model-oriented dimensionless CAD tools like Solidworks, it feels like stepping back in time four decades to suddenly have to manually dimension and align everything upfront.
- mgdlbp 4y agoParametric modelling - OpenSCAD (which you mention) is commonly used for that style of handwritten arithmetic and has a few python-based alternatives like CadQuery. In GUIs, FreeCAD has an architecture module that aims to be fully featured (never used it), but for just parametric drawings, SolveSpace is lightweight and probably more pleasant to use.
- nerdponx 4y agoHave you tried LibreCAD? It seems specifically designed for 2D, but I don't know how "parametric" it is.
- IshKebab 4y agoOpenSCAD is completely the wrong tool for the job. You want a graphical parametric modeller. The only vaguely decent FOSS one is SolveSpace. It's a bit lacking for actual CAD (no fillets!) but it works fine for 2D layout. I have actually used it for that (actually I did full 3D modelling of part of my house) and it worked ok, however I would say that measuring things with a laser and copying them into CAD is not a very accurate way to do things. You will end up with large accumulated errors, and most houses are not as square as you think they are. I haven't ever used one but I suspect those phone based AR measurement apps have a good chance of being more accurate.
- patates 4y ago> and most houses are not as square as you think they are I'd say most houses don't even have straight walls, so you should be very happy if what you got is vaguely a trapezoid.
- styx31 4y agoI shared the same frustration, but I finally gave up, and guess what, I was able to fulfill my projects and have a good insight about what my layout will be even with ~5cm difference. I learned to relax about absolute measures and think more about feeling and subjective dimensions.
- patates 4y agoDescribed in programming terms: You try to type the weird dynamic object you have to deal with in Typescript but after spending too much time, you learn to relax about types and just write it in JS and it feels like it's working most of the time.
- docmars 4y agoDon't forget the power of `as const` and type guards for tricky dynamic types! Especially for function params that accept multiple complex object types.
- janeway 4y agoI modelled my whole house including very piece of furniture. It is very “finicky” as you describe. It’s good enough for my amateur use with manual clicking. (There’s probably a programmatic option that I don’t know). However if I was a pro contractor it would probably not be the best. I did plan custom designs that my contractor used. It’s also great when I want to get a new desk or sofa or whatever so that I can visualise everything first. Possible to make pretty realistic 3d walk-through videos that would be fine on any design tv show.
- B0073D 4y ago> org-mode Of course you did.... Gods above I love org-mode.
- zdimension 4y agoYou (like me) are looking for a parametric modeler. SolveSpace is pretty good for that
- romwell 4y ago>You (like me) are looking for a parametric modeler. SolveSpace is pretty good for that OpenSCAD is my go-to since you just write code.
- AdamTReineke 4y agoI never figured out how to relate primitives to each other in OpenSCAD so my models were an endless soup of absolute position math. I used SolveSpace for a while and it was brilliant because what took hours in OpenSCAD took just a fraction of the time. And then I picked up the Maker license for Solidworks ($100/yr) and haven't looked back. I rendered my whole house in Solidworks to plan for a remodel and it was extremely well suited for the job.
- romwell 4y agoI'm going to try SolveSpace, but I'll look into that Maker license. Didn't know of that, and I can absolutely afford a grande-latte/month for a tool like that. The nice thing about FOSS though is that it's worry free. I can keep OpenSCAD and Cura, and my projects will build years later without me having to think about it. The stuff I built with 3DS Max educational license, though, is not accessible. So I am hesitant to jump ship for Solidworks (even though it's the industry standard).
- michaelcampbell 4y agoUgh, thanks. I was hoping it'd be more parametric based, like Fusion 360, but alas seems not.
- bitcoinmoney 4y agoI come to HN for comments like this.
- emilburzo 4y agoThis was one of the unexpected extra benefits of having a robot vacuum with LIDAR, free accurate floorplan after one sweep. Obviously you just get an image, but for what I needed (map in home assistant with sensors overlaid) it was enough.
- judge2020 4y agoThe vacuum navigates and route plans based on the geometry, though, so chances are the actual map is on the device. Robot vacuums are competitive and plentiful enough to where there has to be one with a way to download the map from some endpoint on the device, or at least a way to pop it open and pull out some SD card. Of course, it’d probably be in a proprietary format, so transforming it into a usable mesh might be tougher than getting the data.
- namibj 4y agoThose scanners are IIUC typically line scanners, though.
- sethd 4y agoIt’s been awhile since I’ve used this, but IIRC you need this plugin to be able to easily update dimensions without manually moving everything around: https://www.sweethome3d.com/support/forum/viewthread_thread,1757 https://www.sweethome3d.com/support/forum/viewthread_thread,...
- davidascher 4y agoSo few people use Metapost, it's undervalued! Feature request: add the output to the github repo so we can see the result?