13 ms·

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in

by wffurr 4y ago

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but only because I have an off-street parking space for it. Otherwise I'd go back to renting one on the ~monthly occasions I want to use one. The main benefit of Zipcar to me versus owning is that the car had a parking space that it went back into. Now if only the mass transit system in the area wasn't falling apart and the rail connections to other cities were even half as good as the ones in the Netherlands.

stronglikedan 4y ago
> Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? Because some people, like me, find driving to be blissful and elating, and I will never not take the opportunity to do it.
wffurr 4y ago
One line of thought that hadn't occurred to me until this thread is that The Netherlands car infrastructure is also probably quite good, in keeping with their general high quality of infrastructure all around. Although as many of the other commenters noted, one reason that driving in some places in the country is doable is that many others choose alternatives, themselves made attractive by high quality infrastructure.
fruit2020 4y ago
It’s faster if you live next to the train station and your work is next to the destination station. Anyway, for some people is better one way than the other
- mcv 4y ago
  A lot of business parks are close to a station for that very reason.
moffkalast 4y ago
The problem with that is the part where you need to get to and from the train station to your actual destination, which could be on the very other side of town. It can be solved with shuttles or taxis, but that adds even more complexity and annoyance than just driving directly, especially with luggage.
- _dain_ 4y ago
  Those cities have extensive networks of local rail, subway, trams, and buses. So "the other side of town" is easily reachable.
  - moffkalast 4y ago
    And you again need to figure out and get whatever local card or ticket or app they decided to use to pay for all that, because there is zero standardization, which adds even more financial overhead assuming you're only visiting once, plus figuring out the timetable and route plan so you don't end up on the completely opposite end. Lots of "Oh wait, you were supposed to take the #15 bus, but this is a #15B which doesn't go to your station because fuck you" moments. Remember, this mess is trying to directly compete with just looking at a satnav and driving where it says with no extra charge, lost time, or mental effort.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      Transit agencies should come up with a reciprocity plan. You don't live here, but you have have a monthly pass for the city you live in so I'll let you ride my system for a week - or if system prices are too different pro-rate your time so you get a great discount. Note that a large part of the above is I think transit agencies should try to get as many people as possible on unlimited ride family passes. Anyone with such a pass must find transit useful enough to use often anyway, and the pass means they don't worry about making one additional trip they just go.
      - johnwalkr 4y ago
        Large cities don’t usually have one unlimited monthly plan, you pay for your specific route or zone(s).
cjfd 4y ago
"Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive?" Well, I live in The Netherlands and the place where I work is not very reachable by public transport. The 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague is all very nice and so on but even in the Netherlands people who live in a village will in many cases be somewhat isolated if they don't own a car.
seydor 4y ago
Why would so many people need to move between Amsterdam and Hague in the first place
- stouset 4y ago
  They’re 37 miles apart. Do you have idea how many Americans commute 37 miles each way, every single day?
- yourusername 4y ago
  The job market in the Netherlands is very flexible and the housing market is very inflexible. It's not financially feasible for most people to move for a job every few years. Especially to the Amsterdam region where you would need to be on a waiting list for a decade for social housing or make ~2x national average to even think of moving there.
- mcv 4y ago
  They're both important cities. Sometimes people need to be in a specific city. But you're absolutely right that it's better to work in the same city where you live, so you can simply ride a bike to work.
- olddustytrail 4y ago
  It's not that odd. There are a similar number from Glasgow to Edinburgh daily.
Ekaros 4y ago
That is optimal situation. But it does breakdown or be worse with slightly more complicated routes. Like I used to travel from smaller city to bigger city to other big city. And in the end public transport was probably 50% if not longer in time. First 15-20 minutes to station, then 45 minutes with local train. Wait for intercity, ~2 hours and 30 minutes or get lift to destination. Compared to straight 2 hours from door to door with car. And this is with perfectly serviceable train network with plenty enough trains. Or at max capacity.
- smaudet 4y ago
  Sure in the case of long commutes or exploration of different areas there are certain advantaged to autonomous vehicles - however the car is by no means king. Helicopter is even better for getting from random distant location to distant location. But this is not the majority of travel, and in those cases car travel is indeed overkill, and a hassle to boot, as anyone who has ever had to daily wrangle with parking lots and rush hour traffic can attest. There are different concerns with public transport, but the advantages tend to outweigh the disadvantages, and it appears this is borne out by the data.
- Retric 4y ago
  Swapping trains can take a while, but until self driving works you can’t do much while driving. And even with self driving simply getting up and stretching, grabbing a bite to eat, or even just going to the bathroom requires you to stop making progress for a while. Driving has several advantages, but getting stuck in traffic is extremely unpleasant in ways that similar delays on other forms of travel don’t really replicate.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    > getting stuck in traffic is extremely unpleasant in ways that similar delays on other forms of travel don’t really replicate But you also don't have to take a 3 hour coach ride because the driver or other staff's union is striking. It's just you and your car.
    - 4y ago
yourusername 4y ago
>There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip If you're going from the Hague central station to Amsterdam central station, sure. Now plan a more typical commute from say the Hague Wateringen to the over Amstel industrial estate (It takes two times as as driving) Play around with real life scenarios. Say you're going from Amsterdam Osdorp to your work in Utrecht Lageweide. It takes twice with transit as if you were to drive even with traffic. Most Dutch people drive, especially those that can afford to.
- mcv 4y ago
  > It takes two times as as driving That really depends on the amount of traffic jam you end up in. It's true that not every route has a direct train connection, and there are definitely trips where cars are faster, but during rush hour around big cities, cars become a lot less reliable. On top of that, cars are only fast if you have access to parking on each end of the trip. Otherwise you still need to park somewhere else and take local transit for the final leg (which is definitely the preferred way to visit Amsterdam by car).
  - yourusername 4y ago
    >That really depends on the amount of traffic jam you end up in. And on the ammount of leaves/snow/rain/wind/heat/strikes impeding rail traffic. Terrible traffic jams happen but let's not pretend the NS doesn't have a long list of excuses to run less or no trains or massively delayed trains. I can't count the number of times NS announced that they would stop running trains because of some weather where i had no issue driving home. On average driving is going to be twice as fast for most typical commutes.
    - mcv 4y ago
      No, I agree. Trains have gotten unreasonably unreliable too. They didn't always have this much trouble with leaves, rain and cold, as far as I recall. I think trains everywhere, and not just in Pennsylvania, suffer from being run for profit on narrow safety/reliability margins.
sva_ 4y ago
There's also a nice section of the beach in that general area where you can drive your car all the way to the beach with ocean view at no parking fee.
BrandonS113 4y ago
I had to spend a few months in Holland for work. We we left with the problem of what do do on the weekends. You can't rent bikes if you are not Dutch, and visiting the lovely villages and other places Holland is full of is a time consuming exercise in futility unless one has a car. A train is great for Rotterdam-Hague-Amsterdam, not so good for visiting the Bosch museum in 's-Hertogenbosch. Holland has a great road system and parking everywhere. The perfect place for a car owner.
- wffurr 4y ago
  I rented a bike in Holland no problem. Weird that you weren't able to do so.
- rexpress 4y ago
  I've rented bikes in the Netherlands several times as a UK citizen, but perhaps in different areas. Part of the reason the Netherlands is the perfect place for a car owner is that so many people are able to go by bike instead, freeing up space on the roads.
  - BrandonS113 4y ago
    Yes, private bike rental firms are happy to take my money. But they are not common. But the public OV are ubiquitous and more strict.
- imiric 4y ago
  > You can't rent bikes if you are not Dutch Huh? There's a bike rental place on practically every other corner in most Dutch cities, and most of their profit is from tourists. You only need to show some ID and leave a deposit. Dutch people usually have a cheap old bike, or use the public OV bikes, for which you do need to register and get a card, but even that is possible as a foreigner, it just takes some days to process. > visiting the lovely villages and other places Holland is full of is a time consuming exercise in futility unless one has a car. I'm not sure where you're getting this from either. Intercity transport by train works great, and there are many organized bus tours that take you to smaller villages. You can easily see most of the country without owning a car, though it's a personal preference whether you enjoy using public transport or not.
fleddr 4y ago
The US anti-car narrative often refers to the Netherlands as some kind of beacon of proper public infrastructure, whilst not knowing a damn thing about it. First, let's establish that the Netherlands is a car country. We have 11 million cars on a population of 17 million. On a typical day, 1 million people use public transport. Cars are the norm, not trains or bicycles. Public transport is rarely faster, not even in the most idyllic example that you give where you go from big city to big city. The thing you conveniently forget to consider is that nobody lives near the station of city A and then also works very closely to the station of city B. It almost always includes additional travel towards A and from B. Cycling, trams, buses, multiple stops in both directions. It adds up. To illustrate how absurdly slow public transport can be, a personal example. I used to live directly behind a train station in a mid-sized city. Doesn't get much better than that, right? Let's explore the commute to work, some 60km away... I have to get up early and be there some 10 mins before departure to secure somewhat of a reasonable spot. Next, I'm on route to the first big city station. This route is slow, it stops 5 times along the way as everybody needs to connect to a big hub to get where they need to be. I arrive at the hub, where there's a 20 minute connection wait to take the train to the big city destination. This route is longer but fast, no stops along the way. I get out and have a 10 minute connection wait for the bus to take me to the place closest to work, after which there's a 5-10 minute work. Total commute time: 2.5 hours single way. To move 60km. And that's living behind a train station and working at one of the countries' largest employers. What works really well in the Netherlands is living within a cycling radius from work, every other option sucks.
- tmnvix 4y ago
  > Let's explore the commute to work, some 60km away... Well. There's your problem. The idea of travelling 60km to work is a very modern phenomenon. Like a lot of people you've built your life around car travel. It's hard to get back from that.
- xputer 4y ago
  Well it seems you're criticizing Americans' rosy view of Dutch public infrastructure without realizing how absurd the US is in terms of infrastructure. I challenge you to visit the US and not use a car at all. In many cities you wouldn't even be able to get out of the airport. Yet Schiphol has a massive station underneath it with trains that can take you, not only to Amsterdam, but to virtually any city and even small town in the country.
devoutsalsa 4y ago
Because trains don’t go everywhere.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  But with combination of bus you are able to go almost everywhere in Czechia.
nerdchum 4y ago
Are dogs allowed on the trains?
wkat4242 4y ago
The problem in the Netherlands is the peripheral connections. Transport between the cities is great. Inside them also. Suburban areas are crap though. In my town my house 15km from the city center of Amsterdam had a bus one time per hour. And really unreliable, often wouldn't appear etc. Walking to the train station was possible but 20 minutes. This makes any trip much more difficult. Anyway I had to have the car for work. I hated that thing and the consultancy job.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tobyhinloopen 4y ago
> Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? Because some people don’t live in Amsterdam or The Hague. Taking public transportation will take me over twice the time, and that’s when there’s no outage or delay. “But traffic jams!” I hear you say. Well, the % time in traffic jams is drastically less for me than the % time lost due to missing a transfer, a delayed train or a canceled train. Traffic jams are annoying but not very common or large, and will only rarely cause me to miss an appointment. Also, you just use cruise control and wait. Experiencing a delay, cancelation or missing a transfer is almost guaranteed for any trip I make, and this usually means waiting another 30 mins for the next train or bus, and trying to figure out what I need to do to get to my destination (finding alternative trains) All while being more expensive and less comfortable than just driving somewhere. If it were (drastically) cheaper, I could convince myself to take the time loss. But it is not, it is literally more expensive to take the train or bus than to drive if you already own a car.
evanelias 4y ago
> The main benefit of Zipcar to me versus owning is that the car had a parking space that it went back into. I used to wholeheartedly agree with this. I lived in a very parking-constrained area. Zipcar had cars with dedicated spots on random corners throughout town, which was extremely convenient! At least prior to 2020... Then the pandemic hit, and the number of package delivery trucks skyrocketed, along with doordash, uber eats, etc. And also just a general decrease in people's willingness to follow parking rules and signs. In the final year of my Zipcar membership before cancellation, literally 100% of my rentals involved dealing with a blocked parking spot when trying to return the car. I just don't think Zipcar's concept is viable anymore.
83 4y ago
Not everyone want to spend their whole life in an urban environment. Perhaps there is not much opportunity for this in the Netherlands, but I can't imagine not having a vehicle to go camping/rock climbing/kayaking/mountain biking/hiking which requires going to remote areas not typically serviced by public transport.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Depnds on country. In Czech Republic public transport is common and take you in almost every village. It is actually more comfortable to go hiking by public transport, because you can plan route from place A to place B. You do not have to go from A to B and back to A bcause of car.
tdiff 4y ago
Because number of trains per day makes little sense if you have to plan the trip months in advance to get affordable prices, and the ticket binds you to a specific train.

by wffurr 4y ago

stronglikedan 4y ago

> Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? Because some people, like me, find driving to be blissful and elating, and I will never not take the opportunity to do it.

wffurr 4y ago

One line of thought that hadn't occurred to me until this thread is that The Netherlands car infrastructure is also probably quite good, in keeping with their general high quality of infrastructure all around. Although as many of the other commenters noted, one reason that driving in some places in the country is doable is that many others choose alternatives, themselves made attractive by high quality infrastructure.

fruit2020 4y ago

It’s faster if you live next to the train station and your work is next to the destination station. Anyway, for some people is better one way than the other

mcv 4y ago
A lot of business parks are close to a station for that very reason.

moffkalast 4y ago

The problem with that is the part where you need to get to and from the train station to your actual destination, which could be on the very other side of town. It can be solved with shuttles or taxis, but that adds even more complexity and annoyance than just driving directly, especially with luggage.

_dain_ 4y ago
Those cities have extensive networks of local rail, subway, trams, and buses. So "the other side of town" is easily reachable.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  And you again need to figure out and get whatever local card or ticket or app they decided to use to pay for all that, because there is zero standardization, which adds even more financial overhead assuming you're only visiting once, plus figuring out the timetable and route plan so you don't end up on the completely opposite end. Lots of "Oh wait, you were supposed to take the #15 bus, but this is a #15B which doesn't go to your station because fuck you" moments. Remember, this mess is trying to directly compete with just looking at a satnav and driving where it says with no extra charge, lost time, or mental effort.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    Transit agencies should come up with a reciprocity plan. You don't live here, but you have have a monthly pass for the city you live in so I'll let you ride my system for a week - or if system prices are too different pro-rate your time so you get a great discount. Note that a large part of the above is I think transit agencies should try to get as many people as possible on unlimited ride family passes. Anyone with such a pass must find transit useful enough to use often anyway, and the pass means they don't worry about making one additional trip they just go.
    - johnwalkr 4y ago
      Large cities don’t usually have one unlimited monthly plan, you pay for your specific route or zone(s).

cjfd 4y ago

"Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive?" Well, I live in The Netherlands and the place where I work is not very reachable by public transport. The 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague is all very nice and so on but even in the Netherlands people who live in a village will in many cases be somewhat isolated if they don't own a car.

seydor 4y ago

Why would so many people need to move between Amsterdam and Hague in the first place

stouset 4y ago
They’re 37 miles apart. Do you have idea how many Americans commute 37 miles each way, every single day?
yourusername 4y ago
The job market in the Netherlands is very flexible and the housing market is very inflexible. It's not financially feasible for most people to move for a job every few years. Especially to the Amsterdam region where you would need to be on a waiting list for a decade for social housing or make ~2x national average to even think of moving there.
mcv 4y ago
They're both important cities. Sometimes people need to be in a specific city. But you're absolutely right that it's better to work in the same city where you live, so you can simply ride a bike to work.
olddustytrail 4y ago
It's not that odd. There are a similar number from Glasgow to Edinburgh daily.

Ekaros 4y ago

That is optimal situation. But it does breakdown or be worse with slightly more complicated routes. Like I used to travel from smaller city to bigger city to other big city. And in the end public transport was probably 50% if not longer in time. First 15-20 minutes to station, then 45 minutes with local train. Wait for intercity, ~2 hours and 30 minutes or get lift to destination. Compared to straight 2 hours from door to door with car. And this is with perfectly serviceable train network with plenty enough trains. Or at max capacity.

smaudet 4y ago
Sure in the case of long commutes or exploration of different areas there are certain advantaged to autonomous vehicles - however the car is by no means king. Helicopter is even better for getting from random distant location to distant location. But this is not the majority of travel, and in those cases car travel is indeed overkill, and a hassle to boot, as anyone who has ever had to daily wrangle with parking lots and rush hour traffic can attest. There are different concerns with public transport, but the advantages tend to outweigh the disadvantages, and it appears this is borne out by the data.
Retric 4y ago
Swapping trains can take a while, but until self driving works you can’t do much while driving. And even with self driving simply getting up and stretching, grabbing a bite to eat, or even just going to the bathroom requires you to stop making progress for a while. Driving has several advantages, but getting stuck in traffic is extremely unpleasant in ways that similar delays on other forms of travel don’t really replicate.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  > getting stuck in traffic is extremely unpleasant in ways that similar delays on other forms of travel don’t really replicate But you also don't have to take a 3 hour coach ride because the driver or other staff's union is striking. It's just you and your car.
  - 4y ago

yourusername 4y ago

>There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip If you're going from the Hague central station to Amsterdam central station, sure. Now plan a more typical commute from say the Hague Wateringen to the over Amstel industrial estate (It takes two times as as driving) Play around with real life scenarios. Say you're going from Amsterdam Osdorp to your work in Utrecht Lageweide. It takes twice with transit as if you were to drive even with traffic. Most Dutch people drive, especially those that can afford to.

mcv 4y ago
> It takes two times as as driving That really depends on the amount of traffic jam you end up in. It's true that not every route has a direct train connection, and there are definitely trips where cars are faster, but during rush hour around big cities, cars become a lot less reliable. On top of that, cars are only fast if you have access to parking on each end of the trip. Otherwise you still need to park somewhere else and take local transit for the final leg (which is definitely the preferred way to visit Amsterdam by car).
- yourusername 4y ago
  >That really depends on the amount of traffic jam you end up in. And on the ammount of leaves/snow/rain/wind/heat/strikes impeding rail traffic. Terrible traffic jams happen but let's not pretend the NS doesn't have a long list of excuses to run less or no trains or massively delayed trains. I can't count the number of times NS announced that they would stop running trains because of some weather where i had no issue driving home. On average driving is going to be twice as fast for most typical commutes.
  - mcv 4y ago
    No, I agree. Trains have gotten unreasonably unreliable too. They didn't always have this much trouble with leaves, rain and cold, as far as I recall. I think trains everywhere, and not just in Pennsylvania, suffer from being run for profit on narrow safety/reliability margins.

sva_ 4y ago

There's also a nice section of the beach in that general area where you can drive your car all the way to the beach with ocean view at no parking fee.

BrandonS113 4y ago

I had to spend a few months in Holland for work. We we left with the problem of what do do on the weekends. You can't rent bikes if you are not Dutch, and visiting the lovely villages and other places Holland is full of is a time consuming exercise in futility unless one has a car. A train is great for Rotterdam-Hague-Amsterdam, not so good for visiting the Bosch museum in 's-Hertogenbosch. Holland has a great road system and parking everywhere. The perfect place for a car owner.

wffurr 4y ago
I rented a bike in Holland no problem. Weird that you weren't able to do so.
rexpress 4y ago
I've rented bikes in the Netherlands several times as a UK citizen, but perhaps in different areas. Part of the reason the Netherlands is the perfect place for a car owner is that so many people are able to go by bike instead, freeing up space on the roads.
- BrandonS113 4y ago
  Yes, private bike rental firms are happy to take my money. But they are not common. But the public OV are ubiquitous and more strict.
imiric 4y ago
> You can't rent bikes if you are not Dutch Huh? There's a bike rental place on practically every other corner in most Dutch cities, and most of their profit is from tourists. You only need to show some ID and leave a deposit. Dutch people usually have a cheap old bike, or use the public OV bikes, for which you do need to register and get a card, but even that is possible as a foreigner, it just takes some days to process. > visiting the lovely villages and other places Holland is full of is a time consuming exercise in futility unless one has a car. I'm not sure where you're getting this from either. Intercity transport by train works great, and there are many organized bus tours that take you to smaller villages. You can easily see most of the country without owning a car, though it's a personal preference whether you enjoy using public transport or not.

fleddr 4y ago

The US anti-car narrative often refers to the Netherlands as some kind of beacon of proper public infrastructure, whilst not knowing a damn thing about it. First, let's establish that the Netherlands is a car country. We have 11 million cars on a population of 17 million. On a typical day, 1 million people use public transport. Cars are the norm, not trains or bicycles. Public transport is rarely faster, not even in the most idyllic example that you give where you go from big city to big city. The thing you conveniently forget to consider is that nobody lives near the station of city A and then also works very closely to the station of city B. It almost always includes additional travel towards A and from B. Cycling, trams, buses, multiple stops in both directions. It adds up. To illustrate how absurdly slow public transport can be, a personal example. I used to live directly behind a train station in a mid-sized city. Doesn't get much better than that, right? Let's explore the commute to work, some 60km away... I have to get up early and be there some 10 mins before departure to secure somewhat of a reasonable spot. Next, I'm on route to the first big city station. This route is slow, it stops 5 times along the way as everybody needs to connect to a big hub to get where they need to be. I arrive at the hub, where there's a 20 minute connection wait to take the train to the big city destination. This route is longer but fast, no stops along the way. I get out and have a 10 minute connection wait for the bus to take me to the place closest to work, after which there's a 5-10 minute work. Total commute time: 2.5 hours single way. To move 60km. And that's living behind a train station and working at one of the countries' largest employers. What works really well in the Netherlands is living within a cycling radius from work, every other option sucks.

tmnvix 4y ago
> Let's explore the commute to work, some 60km away... Well. There's your problem. The idea of travelling 60km to work is a very modern phenomenon. Like a lot of people you've built your life around car travel. It's hard to get back from that.
xputer 4y ago
Well it seems you're criticizing Americans' rosy view of Dutch public infrastructure without realizing how absurd the US is in terms of infrastructure. I challenge you to visit the US and not use a car at all. In many cities you wouldn't even be able to get out of the airport. Yet Schiphol has a massive station underneath it with trains that can take you, not only to Amsterdam, but to virtually any city and even small town in the country.

devoutsalsa 4y ago

Because trains don’t go everywhere.

t0bia_s 4y ago
But with combination of bus you are able to go almost everywhere in Czechia.

nerdchum 4y ago

Are dogs allowed on the trains?

wkat4242 4y ago

The problem in the Netherlands is the peripheral connections. Transport between the cities is great. Inside them also. Suburban areas are crap though. In my town my house 15km from the city center of Amsterdam had a bus one time per hour. And really unreliable, often wouldn't appear etc. Walking to the train station was possible but 20 minutes. This makes any trip much more difficult. Anyway I had to have the car for work. I hated that thing and the consultancy job.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tobyhinloopen 4y ago

> Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? Because some people don’t live in Amsterdam or The Hague. Taking public transportation will take me over twice the time, and that’s when there’s no outage or delay. “But traffic jams!” I hear you say. Well, the % time in traffic jams is drastically less for me than the % time lost due to missing a transfer, a delayed train or a canceled train. Traffic jams are annoying but not very common or large, and will only rarely cause me to miss an appointment. Also, you just use cruise control and wait. Experiencing a delay, cancelation or missing a transfer is almost guaranteed for any trip I make, and this usually means waiting another 30 mins for the next train or bus, and trying to figure out what I need to do to get to my destination (finding alternative trains) All while being more expensive and less comfortable than just driving somewhere. If it were (drastically) cheaper, I could convince myself to take the time loss. But it is not, it is literally more expensive to take the train or bus than to drive if you already own a car.

evanelias 4y ago

> The main benefit of Zipcar to me versus owning is that the car had a parking space that it went back into. I used to wholeheartedly agree with this. I lived in a very parking-constrained area. Zipcar had cars with dedicated spots on random corners throughout town, which was extremely convenient! At least prior to 2020... Then the pandemic hit, and the number of package delivery trucks skyrocketed, along with doordash, uber eats, etc. And also just a general decrease in people's willingness to follow parking rules and signs. In the final year of my Zipcar membership before cancellation, literally 100% of my rentals involved dealing with a blocked parking spot when trying to return the car. I just don't think Zipcar's concept is viable anymore.

83 4y ago

Not everyone want to spend their whole life in an urban environment. Perhaps there is not much opportunity for this in the Netherlands, but I can't imagine not having a vehicle to go camping/rock climbing/kayaking/mountain biking/hiking which requires going to remote areas not typically serviced by public transport.

t0bia_s 4y ago
Depnds on country. In Czech Republic public transport is common and take you in almost every village. It is actually more comfortable to go hiking by public transport, because you can plan route from place A to place B. You do not have to go from A to B and back to A bcause of car.

tdiff 4y ago

Because number of trains per day makes little sense if you have to plan the trip months in advance to get affordable prices, and the ticket binds you to a specific train.