4 ms·

Ah yes, an addon whitelist. How very community friendly of Mozilla... And they wonder why their market share plummets the way it does, making such extremely us

Ah yes, an addon whitelist. How very community friendly of Mozilla... And they wonder why their market share plummets the way it does, making such extremely user hostile decisions like that.

Synaesthesia 4y ago
Playing devil's advocate here, don't they need to protect their users from nefarious add ons that could steal data?
- Jach 4y ago
  Going down the path to eventually having no users is an interesting way to accomplish that. But really, no, they don't. Put up enough disclaimers (this is the secret to compromising with security teams on usability) and let me do what I want at my own risk.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  my data is on my computer which has also access to my phone because they are connected
- krono 4y ago
  Doesn't seem very high up their list of priorities, seeing as how their desktop extensions - including the "Recommended" ones - are allowed to break all the rules. A surprising amount of them comes with unlisted and uncontrollable connections to snooping services like Google Analytics or Sentry, I've seen unexpected redirects / tab hijacks - mostly to advertise the developer's new other extension, even fetching and executing external scripts and other resources from various CDNs is not uncommon... essentially everything their extension policies disallow. All these violations are hardcoded into the extensions' source and rather easily scanned for automatically mind you, it almost takes more effort to not notice them. I've stopped reporting the ones I encountered, they were never taken down, never lost their recommended badge, and all the violations remained in every next version that I checked.
  - krono 4y ago
    Here are some examples anyone can download to verify I'm not talking out of my arse: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/giphy-for-firefox/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/giphy-for-fir... https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tabliss/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tabliss/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-subscription-groups/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-subsc... To get the source as its distributed to the browser you click "See all versions" in the "More information" panel on the left hand side of the extension page, then right click the "Add to Firefox" button and save to disk (don't left click the button if you're using FF or the extension will auto-install!), and then just unpack the XPI archive. Don't forget to send in those abuse reports, maybe that'll finally get Mozilla to look at them. Bonus link: https://extensionworkshop.com/documentation/publish/add-on-policies/ https://extensionworkshop.com/documentation/publish/add-on-p...
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Sure but give them a choice. I don't want to be 'protected' from myself.
  - galangalalgol 4y ago
    And the people that do, probably aren't running firefox for android
- bloppe 4y ago
  The we need a nanny argument really irks me in all it's forms. I appreciate guardrails, not a straightjacket.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- krageon 4y ago
  If I protect you by taking away your house keys so you can't have them stolen and abused, does that make me a good person? Is it a good reason to begin with?
- GuB-42 4y ago
  That's what Apple would do, and in a lesser measure, Google. Walled gardens have value for the user, Apple made tons of money and happy customers doing this. But Mozilla is neither Apple nor Google, and Firefox is supposed to be an alternative to Chrome, in fact that's what annoys me the most with Firefox since last years: they copy Chrome for many things, but they don't have the means of Google, so it almost guarantees their position as a second choice. They did great things with Quantum, but they also lost most of their identity. It is great that they support some extensions on their mobile version (uBlock Origin alone makes it worth it), but the wall garden approach is, I think, too much like what they are competing against. They could give the user an option.
  - WeylandYutani 4y ago
    Yeah if FF just becomes Chrome I might as well switch to the original. I think Mozilla just has to bite the bullet and accept that they'll never be a mainstream browser (the majority of internet users don't even use ad blockers). The public is staying with Google and Apple.
- ok123456 4y ago
  Then don't use addons.
wkat4242 4y ago
And also, why do they block loading XPI extensions on mobile :(
- Zuiii 4y ago
  And also also, why they block the ability to run devtools directly on mobile. It's an incredibly sad state of affairs that I have to use a chromium fork to do something that was pioneered on Firefox. Why do Mozilla keep shooting themselves in the foot like this?
  - cma 4y ago
    And why is mouse/keyboard and stylus support so bad on mobile? Most of the normal browsing hotkeys don't work, even though people can use that setup a good bit with tablets and foldables.
    - ohgodplsno 4y ago
      Feel free to implement this in HomeActivity::onKeyDown. (https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/firefox-android/blob/ce68e6f88e8bbfe096f4843c6f393f259dde6248/fenix/app/src/main/java/org/mozilla/fenix/HomeActivity.kt#L746 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/firefox-android/blob/ce68e...). Check for the appropriate modifiers on your key event + R, and call components.useCases.sessionUseCases.reloadUrl(). Why is it so bad ? Because noone uses a keyboard on mobile. Because if they had spent time implementing any other features that are used by 0.0001% of users, you'd have been complaining that Mozilla is wasting their money on not making a better browser.
      - Zak 4y ago
        Web developers are, indeed a tiny fraction of the overall userbase for web browsers. Why browser makers might want to cater to their needs anyway is left as an exercise for the reader.
        ohgodplsno 4y ago
Semaphor 4y ago
Yeah, I remember before they removed all addons, they had over 20% market share on mobile. Those were the days.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  What did those people switch to? I can't imagine browsing without ubo, what other options do I have?
  - jsnell 4y ago
    I think Semaphor was being sarcastic; Firefox never had any meaningful usage on mobile, certainly not 20%.
    - galangalalgol 4y ago
      Ah, I was hoping there was some amazing little known fork with lots of promise. My wildly optimistic hope is that servo takes flight now it appears it isn't just a research project. I'd love to help, but I know nothing about web or UI stuff, all my code is cli or embedded rust/cuda.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    It never did, I was being sarcastic. Most users on phones use chrome or safarIE, as those come preinstalled.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    Kiwi can run ubo and pretty much any chrome extension.

Ah yes, an addon whitelist. How very community friendly of Mozilla... And they wonder why their market share plummets the way it does, making such extremely user hostile decisions like that.

Synaesthesia 4y ago

Playing devil's advocate here, don't they need to protect their users from nefarious add ons that could steal data?

Jach 4y ago
Going down the path to eventually having no users is an interesting way to accomplish that. But really, no, they don't. Put up enough disclaimers (this is the secret to compromising with security teams on usability) and let me do what I want at my own risk.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
my data is on my computer which has also access to my phone because they are connected
krono 4y ago
Doesn't seem very high up their list of priorities, seeing as how their desktop extensions - including the "Recommended" ones - are allowed to break all the rules. A surprising amount of them comes with unlisted and uncontrollable connections to snooping services like Google Analytics or Sentry, I've seen unexpected redirects / tab hijacks - mostly to advertise the developer's new other extension, even fetching and executing external scripts and other resources from various CDNs is not uncommon... essentially everything their extension policies disallow. All these violations are hardcoded into the extensions' source and rather easily scanned for automatically mind you, it almost takes more effort to not notice them. I've stopped reporting the ones I encountered, they were never taken down, never lost their recommended badge, and all the violations remained in every next version that I checked.
- krono 4y ago
  Here are some examples anyone can download to verify I'm not talking out of my arse: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/giphy-for-firefox/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/giphy-for-fir... https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tabliss/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tabliss/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-subscription-groups/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-subsc... To get the source as its distributed to the browser you click "See all versions" in the "More information" panel on the left hand side of the extension page, then right click the "Add to Firefox" button and save to disk (don't left click the button if you're using FF or the extension will auto-install!), and then just unpack the XPI archive. Don't forget to send in those abuse reports, maybe that'll finally get Mozilla to look at them. Bonus link: https://extensionworkshop.com/documentation/publish/add-on-policies/ https://extensionworkshop.com/documentation/publish/add-on-p...
wkat4242 4y ago
Sure but give them a choice. I don't want to be 'protected' from myself.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  And the people that do, probably aren't running firefox for android
bloppe 4y ago
The we need a nanny argument really irks me in all it's forms. I appreciate guardrails, not a straightjacket.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
krageon 4y ago
If I protect you by taking away your house keys so you can't have them stolen and abused, does that make me a good person? Is it a good reason to begin with?
GuB-42 4y ago
That's what Apple would do, and in a lesser measure, Google. Walled gardens have value for the user, Apple made tons of money and happy customers doing this. But Mozilla is neither Apple nor Google, and Firefox is supposed to be an alternative to Chrome, in fact that's what annoys me the most with Firefox since last years: they copy Chrome for many things, but they don't have the means of Google, so it almost guarantees their position as a second choice. They did great things with Quantum, but they also lost most of their identity. It is great that they support some extensions on their mobile version (uBlock Origin alone makes it worth it), but the wall garden approach is, I think, too much like what they are competing against. They could give the user an option.
- WeylandYutani 4y ago
  Yeah if FF just becomes Chrome I might as well switch to the original. I think Mozilla just has to bite the bullet and accept that they'll never be a mainstream browser (the majority of internet users don't even use ad blockers). The public is staying with Google and Apple.
ok123456 4y ago
Then don't use addons.

wkat4242 4y ago

And also, why do they block loading XPI extensions on mobile :(

Zuiii 4y ago
And also also, why they block the ability to run devtools directly on mobile. It's an incredibly sad state of affairs that I have to use a chromium fork to do something that was pioneered on Firefox. Why do Mozilla keep shooting themselves in the foot like this?
- cma 4y ago
  And why is mouse/keyboard and stylus support so bad on mobile? Most of the normal browsing hotkeys don't work, even though people can use that setup a good bit with tablets and foldables.
  - ohgodplsno 4y ago
    Feel free to implement this in HomeActivity::onKeyDown. (https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/firefox-android/blob/ce68e6f88e8bbfe096f4843c6f393f259dde6248/fenix/app/src/main/java/org/mozilla/fenix/HomeActivity.kt#L746 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/firefox-android/blob/ce68e...). Check for the appropriate modifiers on your key event + R, and call components.useCases.sessionUseCases.reloadUrl(). Why is it so bad ? Because noone uses a keyboard on mobile. Because if they had spent time implementing any other features that are used by 0.0001% of users, you'd have been complaining that Mozilla is wasting their money on not making a better browser.
    - Zak 4y ago
      Web developers are, indeed a tiny fraction of the overall userbase for web browsers. Why browser makers might want to cater to their needs anyway is left as an exercise for the reader.
      - ohgodplsno 4y ago

Semaphor 4y ago

Yeah, I remember before they removed all addons, they had over 20% market share on mobile. Those were the days.

galangalalgol 4y ago
What did those people switch to? I can't imagine browsing without ubo, what other options do I have?
- jsnell 4y ago
  I think Semaphor was being sarcastic; Firefox never had any meaningful usage on mobile, certainly not 20%.
  - galangalalgol 4y ago
    Ah, I was hoping there was some amazing little known fork with lots of promise. My wildly optimistic hope is that servo takes flight now it appears it isn't just a research project. I'd love to help, but I know nothing about web or UI stuff, all my code is cli or embedded rust/cuda.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  It never did, I was being sarcastic. Most users on phones use chrome or safarIE, as those come preinstalled.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  Kiwi can run ubo and pretty much any chrome extension.