6 ms·

You can't be serious. Spy balloons are definitely happening, just because not every balloon is one doesn't mean it's not so. You can't send a spy and have them

You can't be serious. Spy balloons are definitely happening, just because not every balloon is one doesn't mean it's not so. You can't send a spy and have them fly over nuclear silos or collect transmission date from above them, then beam said data back to your home base near instantly, etc. You can't send a spy to the middle of the ocean above US assets in international waters either. Pretty silly comment. Spying is multi-facet. It's like saying spy satellites aren't real because you could just hire a crop duster and hook up equipment to their plane and have them fly over a city. Comically wrong. I am growing tired and weary of some people thinking everything is fake or some distraction from other things, as if humans are completely incapable of focusing on more than one thing at a time.

hindsightbias 4y ago
Comically wrong. You can drive by or fly over nuclear silos any time. They’re right off the highways and county roads. None of them are in restricted or prohibited airspace. You can rent an apartment in Great Falls and capture 1000X more sigint than a silly troll balloon. They have internet there too.
- californical 4y ago
  They may not be restricted or prohibited, but it’s still illegal to gather information about them for the purpose of spying
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    Hey, psst, hey! Just don't tell anyone what you are gathering for the purpose of spying. Just tell (if anyone would be bothered enough) what you are a blogg^W influencer and making a new TikTok.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      In china many tourist areas overlook navy bases. If a foreign tourist just points their camera in that direction, they are in for a rough time, perhaps even a couple of years in prison if they want to retaliate for something like the detaining of huawei CEO’s daughter. America is pretty benign in comparison
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > Just don't tell anyone what you are gathering for the purpose of spying. Just tell (if anyone would be bothered enough) what you are a blogg^W influencer and making a new TikTok. Yeah, like a Chinese national renting an apartment in some weird place and frequently "hiking" near missile silos with a bunch of unusual electronics isn't going to attract unwanted attention. The FBI would be totally fooled by your influencer ruse. You know what's so great about spy baloons? They're things not people. Using them doesn't put any of your people at risk. That's, like, a consideration.
  - partiallypro 4y ago
    It literally is restricted and prohibited; this poster is just wrong. They might be surprised to know there are even drone restrictions over certain areas, any commercial drone pilot knows this and it's part of their test for certification. Some drones will even disengage if they are within a certain geofence, or you'll just go to jail.
- NoPicklez 4y ago
  I think their overall point is that, there are multiple ways to skin a cat and just because it doesn't look nefarious doesn't mean it isn't. If a balloon looks innocuous, then it might be a great tool to do something with.
  - chucksta 4y ago
    Good point, like birds aren't real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real
- partiallypro 4y ago
  Every nuclear power plant has airspace restrictions, so I don't even know what you're talking about. https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/where_can_i_fly/airspace_restrictions/security_sensitive https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/where_can_i_fly/airs... Spy balloons (and drones) are 100000% a thing. I think it's laughable that you can even try to argue otherwise. As to why the US suddenly cares publicly, probably mostly political because the Chinese balloon was spotted by a civilian and there was a public outcry. That doesn't mean they aren't happening, nor that the governments across the world aren't aware of them. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40054/adversary-drones-are-spying-on-the-u-s-and-the-pentagon-acts-like-theyre-ufos https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40054/adversary-drones...
  - hindsightbias 4y ago
    > power plant you're own link: "Drones are prohibited.. from the ground up to 400 feet above ground level" This, charitably, is called moving the goal posts. I fly over/near a nuclear plant every couple of months on my way somewhere. I am not a drone. Pilots fly over silo fields and nuclear plants all day, every day.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      Your quote from their link is a boilerplate minimum restriction that applies when no further restriction is provided. Most places, especially "sensitive" ones have even stricter limitations. Go ahead and try and fly a drone 500 ft above a military airbase, you'll meet some fun people and have plenty of free time to pick up a new hobby. Nuclear silos are generally not that sensitive, because they are all 60 years old and everyone can identify them on satellite imaging, but if you fly a drone near one, you will definitely be surveilled by some security, whether you know it or not.
    - partiallypro 4y ago
      If you bothered to read it's a ~3-mile radius from the plant, but sure. If you want to test your theory, go ahead and buy a drone and try flying it only 300ft above a nuclear power plant. As soon as you're found out, you'll promptly be arrested (if your drone doesn't already automatically shut off due to GPS geofencing).
- thomasjudge 4y ago
  I live in Great Falls, can confirm
- dang 4y ago
  Can you please make your substantive points without snark and swipes? The HN guidelines ask you not to do those things, because they degrade discussion and we're trying for something else here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Edit: it looks like you've been posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments repeatedly. We end up having to ban that sort of account because it's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. I don't want to ban you, so it would be good if you'd fix this going forward.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
somenameforme 4y ago
Most of these balloons were large to massive. The one we're still sticking to the "spy balloon" story on was about 90 feet in size, and was estimated to have capabilities similar to a spy satellite. [1] So you can send some giant object which will inevitably be detected, and cause a conflict, or you can keep using your already present surveillance satellites to do the exact same thing, 'invisibly.' What, exactly, is supposed to be the logic here? I also find our own reaction somewhat telling. It seems difficult to imagine that $800 billion a year isn't enough to find some way to recover a balloon. Yet we chose to destroy it, and send the debris for a swim on top of it. Whatever's left of the device is almost certainly completely wasted. Would you want to do this if you believe there might be evidence of surreptitious behavior, potentially to try to compromise high security locations, on that balloon? Or would you deploy signal jamming technology and work to recover the balloon intact? Our reaction just feels like a meme. I can't help but hear this song [2] playing in the background as I envision an F-22 making its flyby locking on $400k missiles to bring down a balloon. [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/us/politics/chinese-spy-balloon-civilian-device.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/us/politics/chinese-spy-b... [2] - https://youtu.be/5uPoDNEn3I0?t=8 https://youtu.be/5uPoDNEn3I0?t=8
- Fatnino 4y ago
  Satellite orbits are pretty easy to predict. You can do your secret stuff when you know there is a gap in coverage and then throw a tarp over it when they are passing overhead. A balloon screws this up. It can go anywhere anytime. Now you need to keep the tarp in place for longer stretches of time and it gets annoying.
  - postalrat 4y ago
    If that balloon could go anywhere anytime then why can't I?
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      Are you willing to take an AIM-9X to the face? Because if you are willing to be intercepted you can go a lot of places. At least, once.
leftbit 4y ago
Just wondering - balloons aren't exactly a novel technology. And they are comparatively cheap to produce. So if spy balloons were considered a real threat - why isn't there a more cost efficient way to take them down?
- gowld 4y ago
  The new balloons fly extremely high, up to 80K feet, near the edge of space, where planes cannot reach. And planes that can reach, can't slow down enough to reach out and grab an object.
hulitu 4y ago
> You can't be serious. Spy balloons are definitely happening, Yes. It is funny how, after US, everybody started seeing one. Be alert...
- partiallypro 4y ago
  We've known about them and spy drones for ages, it's not new, it's just the news cycle. Saying they aren't real (or are some grand political distraction) because they are suddenly in the news cycle is just ignorant.
dang 4y ago
Can you please make your substantive points without snark and swipes, and please not post in the flamewar style? The HN guidelines ask you not to do those things, because they degrade discussion and we're trying for something else here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

hindsightbias 4y ago

Comically wrong. You can drive by or fly over nuclear silos any time. They’re right off the highways and county roads. None of them are in restricted or prohibited airspace. You can rent an apartment in Great Falls and capture 1000X more sigint than a silly troll balloon. They have internet there too.

californical 4y ago
They may not be restricted or prohibited, but it’s still illegal to gather information about them for the purpose of spying
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  Hey, psst, hey! Just don't tell anyone what you are gathering for the purpose of spying. Just tell (if anyone would be bothered enough) what you are a blogg^W influencer and making a new TikTok.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    In china many tourist areas overlook navy bases. If a foreign tourist just points their camera in that direction, they are in for a rough time, perhaps even a couple of years in prison if they want to retaliate for something like the detaining of huawei CEO’s daughter. America is pretty benign in comparison
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Just don't tell anyone what you are gathering for the purpose of spying. Just tell (if anyone would be bothered enough) what you are a blogg^W influencer and making a new TikTok. Yeah, like a Chinese national renting an apartment in some weird place and frequently "hiking" near missile silos with a bunch of unusual electronics isn't going to attract unwanted attention. The FBI would be totally fooled by your influencer ruse. You know what's so great about spy baloons? They're things not people. Using them doesn't put any of your people at risk. That's, like, a consideration.
- partiallypro 4y ago
  It literally is restricted and prohibited; this poster is just wrong. They might be surprised to know there are even drone restrictions over certain areas, any commercial drone pilot knows this and it's part of their test for certification. Some drones will even disengage if they are within a certain geofence, or you'll just go to jail.
NoPicklez 4y ago
I think their overall point is that, there are multiple ways to skin a cat and just because it doesn't look nefarious doesn't mean it isn't. If a balloon looks innocuous, then it might be a great tool to do something with.
- chucksta 4y ago
  Good point, like birds aren't real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real
partiallypro 4y ago
Every nuclear power plant has airspace restrictions, so I don't even know what you're talking about. https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/where_can_i_fly/airspace_restrictions/security_sensitive https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/where_can_i_fly/airs... Spy balloons (and drones) are 100000% a thing. I think it's laughable that you can even try to argue otherwise. As to why the US suddenly cares publicly, probably mostly political because the Chinese balloon was spotted by a civilian and there was a public outcry. That doesn't mean they aren't happening, nor that the governments across the world aren't aware of them. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40054/adversary-drones-are-spying-on-the-u-s-and-the-pentagon-acts-like-theyre-ufos https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40054/adversary-drones...
- hindsightbias 4y ago
  > power plant you're own link: "Drones are prohibited.. from the ground up to 400 feet above ground level" This, charitably, is called moving the goal posts. I fly over/near a nuclear plant every couple of months on my way somewhere. I am not a drone. Pilots fly over silo fields and nuclear plants all day, every day.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    Your quote from their link is a boilerplate minimum restriction that applies when no further restriction is provided. Most places, especially "sensitive" ones have even stricter limitations. Go ahead and try and fly a drone 500 ft above a military airbase, you'll meet some fun people and have plenty of free time to pick up a new hobby. Nuclear silos are generally not that sensitive, because they are all 60 years old and everyone can identify them on satellite imaging, but if you fly a drone near one, you will definitely be surveilled by some security, whether you know it or not.
  - partiallypro 4y ago
    If you bothered to read it's a ~3-mile radius from the plant, but sure. If you want to test your theory, go ahead and buy a drone and try flying it only 300ft above a nuclear power plant. As soon as you're found out, you'll promptly be arrested (if your drone doesn't already automatically shut off due to GPS geofencing).
thomasjudge 4y ago
I live in Great Falls, can confirm
dang 4y ago
Can you please make your substantive points without snark and swipes? The HN guidelines ask you not to do those things, because they degrade discussion and we're trying for something else here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Edit: it looks like you've been posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments repeatedly. We end up having to ban that sort of account because it's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. I don't want to ban you, so it would be good if you'd fix this going forward.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

somenameforme 4y ago

Most of these balloons were large to massive. The one we're still sticking to the "spy balloon" story on was about 90 feet in size, and was estimated to have capabilities similar to a spy satellite. [1] So you can send some giant object which will inevitably be detected, and cause a conflict, or you can keep using your already present surveillance satellites to do the exact same thing, 'invisibly.' What, exactly, is supposed to be the logic here? I also find our own reaction somewhat telling. It seems difficult to imagine that $800 billion a year isn't enough to find some way to recover a balloon. Yet we chose to destroy it, and send the debris for a swim on top of it. Whatever's left of the device is almost certainly completely wasted. Would you want to do this if you believe there might be evidence of surreptitious behavior, potentially to try to compromise high security locations, on that balloon? Or would you deploy signal jamming technology and work to recover the balloon intact? Our reaction just feels like a meme. I can't help but hear this song [2] playing in the background as I envision an F-22 making its flyby locking on $400k missiles to bring down a balloon. [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/us/politics/chinese-spy-balloon-civilian-device.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/03/us/politics/chinese-spy-b... [2] - https://youtu.be/5uPoDNEn3I0?t=8 https://youtu.be/5uPoDNEn3I0?t=8

Fatnino 4y ago
Satellite orbits are pretty easy to predict. You can do your secret stuff when you know there is a gap in coverage and then throw a tarp over it when they are passing overhead. A balloon screws this up. It can go anywhere anytime. Now you need to keep the tarp in place for longer stretches of time and it gets annoying.
- postalrat 4y ago
  If that balloon could go anywhere anytime then why can't I?
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    Are you willing to take an AIM-9X to the face? Because if you are willing to be intercepted you can go a lot of places. At least, once.

leftbit 4y ago

Just wondering - balloons aren't exactly a novel technology. And they are comparatively cheap to produce. So if spy balloons were considered a real threat - why isn't there a more cost efficient way to take them down?

gowld 4y ago
The new balloons fly extremely high, up to 80K feet, near the edge of space, where planes cannot reach. And planes that can reach, can't slow down enough to reach out and grab an object.

hulitu 4y ago

> You can't be serious. Spy balloons are definitely happening, Yes. It is funny how, after US, everybody started seeing one. Be alert...

partiallypro 4y ago
We've known about them and spy drones for ages, it's not new, it's just the news cycle. Saying they aren't real (or are some grand political distraction) because they are suddenly in the news cycle is just ignorant.

dang 4y ago

Can you please make your substantive points without snark and swipes, and please not post in the flamewar style? The HN guidelines ask you not to do those things, because they degrade discussion and we're trying for something else here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.